Given that America is incapable of building HS rail should the US bring in China?

Given that the USA is incapable of building a few hundred miles of High speed rail should Chinese firms be brought in to build America's rail infrastructure for the 21st century & beyond? They could be required to use American domestically produced chips to control the infrastructure in the name of national security.

in 10 years China has built 40,000 km of high speed rail & nearly have eliminated short haul flights altogether. In 1869 the American transcontinental rail road was completed without technology such as GPS to make sure the two tracks meet with each other to place the Golden Spike, yet fast forward today America can't even complete a few hundred miles of high speed rail after years of construction programs.

You have African Nations still using rail roads that colonial empires built, it looks like America is as head-on-backwards as countries like Nigeria.

a reply to: blakdart

FWIW America will have high-speed rail when the airplane and automotive manufacturers decide it's time for a high-speed rail. I could see a push for it because it's greener, but we still haven't replaced our commuter traffic from COVID on top of the property cost for rail lines are through the roof

The military has a high speed Mag-Lev rail underground. I have seen it. That might be why no one has been able to get one started here publicly. The military one is classified for some reason.

The reason we don't have it is because no private company is ready to invest in building it for a variety of reasons; everything from the people not being willing to embrace it and make it worth the investment to government interference.

Look what happens when someone tries to build infrastructure that goes across several states. I am thinking of any project that could disrupt an environment. It's fought tooth and nail through the courts. There are a ton of various government regulations and agencies that oversea every step of the process. You're looking at a webwork of differing rules on labor as you go, etc.

All of that costs money, takes time. If people would still rather drive or fly, then there is no point to it.

originally posted by: putnam6
a reply to: blakdart

FWIW America will have high-speed rail when the airplane and automotive manufacturers decide it's time for a high-speed rail. I could see a push for it because it's greener, but we still haven't replaced our commuter traffic from COVID on top of the property cost for rail lines are through the roof

Actually, Democrats are fighting on which of them get the bribes and contracts for their in-laws and family. Estimates are now 105 Billion Dollars. 75% of that I would estimate are bribes, payoffs, and profit for "special" companies involved in the project.

calmatters.org...

www.kqed.org...

a reply to: blakdart

We Already Have One . It Runs Nonstop from NYC to Los Angles , UNDERGROUND .

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

you got any stories or more info about it id love to hear more

When you have such a strong car culture, the odds of people embracing it are low (well before this artificial shortage thanks dems) so for a huge investment, they would likely get a small return.

originally posted by: blakdart
Given that the USA is incapable of building a few hundred miles of High speed rail should Chinese firms be brought in to build America's rail infrastructure for the 21st century & beyond? They could be required to use American domestically produced chips to control the infrastructure in the name of national security.

in 10 years China has built 40,000 km of high speed rail & nearly have eliminated short haul flights altogether. In 1869 the American transcontinental rail road was completed without technology such as GPS to make sure the two tracks meet with each other to place the Golden Spike, yet fast forward today America can't even complete a few hundred miles of high speed rail after years of construction programs.

You have African Nations still using rail roads that colonial empires built, it looks like America is as head-on-backwards as countries like Nigeria.

Your premise is incorrect. The US is not incapable of building high speed rail systems. The US doesn’t build high speed rail systems because they don’t make economic sense in the US the same way they do in other countries. That’s because railway technology came along about a century before automobile and paved road technology. The countries where railroad technology is now way ahead of the US were already well developed when railroad technology came along around 1800. All the places in those countries where people wanted to go from and go to were well established and had been for centuries. When railroad technology came along there was no competing technology, so building rail connections between and within destinations was the no brainer thing to do. When population started booming by about year 1900, it was economically the easiest thing to do for countries with well established rail systems to just keep building them bigger and better and faster.

By contrast, the US was still sparsely populated and many major metropolitan areas were undeveloped in 1900, when automobile technology came along. The marginal cost of going with cars and highways instead of trains and railroads was lower, so that option won out in a free market economy.

That’s what got us to where we are today. To try to go back and recreate a transportation system in the US with trains that is as cost effective as the same transportation system we have with automobiles and trucks would require a huge economic investment. Also, if we go to an all (or mostly) electric car and truck fleet, it’s not clear that trains on tracks would be more efficient.

And don’t get me wrong. When I go to Europe, I love to ride on the high speed trains. The US just followed a different evolutionary pathway, and I don’t think we can go back and rewrite history.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
Care to elaborate? Where have you seen it? Pics?

a reply to: blakdart


Bureaucracy seems to be the problem. Idiot planners.

This video is about a proposed line from San Fransisco to LA. which is mired in bad planning

a reply to: blakdart

America's lack of movement in this area is more down to a lack of will, and to domestic opposition, rather that a lack of technical ability.

I travelled quite a bit on China's rail network back in the day, and it was pretty sweet, you could get from Beijing to Shenzen in a day using a sleeper train, and it was a lot more pleasant than flying would be today, not to mention cheaper.

I've also travelled the Japanese HS network more recently, as well as the long distance networks in Europe, and they're fantastic. Quiet, comfortable and affordable.

America could definitely do with some, it could revitalize the economies of a lot of areas by improving transport links.

a reply to: 1947boomer

When railroad technology came along there was no competing technology, so building rail connections between and within destinations was the no brainer thing to do.

You may want to rethink that. A lot of these destinations already had well established routes between them using road, river or canals. In fact a lot of these places became established because they had good transportation links. Especially by water.

If you look at the UK in particular, railroads were initially only used to transport heavy goods short distances. For example, to transport coal or metal carrying ores, a few miles, because the country already had a well established canal route. Rail only became popular when it was used to carry commuters.

the US was still sparsely populated and many major metropolitan areas were undeveloped in 1900, when automobile technology came along. The marginal cost of going with cars and highways instead of trains and railroads was lower, so that option won out in a free market economy.

Not so, the US had a transcontinental rail network long before the 1900s. The fact that most of the country was uninhabited meant that you could put down a rail network between large cities without having to worry about going around established settlements. In fact many small towns only existed because the trains had to stop in the middle of nowhere to take on fuel and water.

It was the long distance rail network that did away with the stage coach for long distance travel.

Seriously, how do people not know this. Didn't you ever watch old westerns as kids?

originally posted by: ketsuko

Look what happens when someone tries to build infrastructure that goes across several states. I am thinking of any project that could disrupt an environment. It's fought tooth and nail through the courts. There are a ton of various government regulations and agencies that oversea every step of the process. You're looking at a webwork of differing rules on labor as you go, etc.

.

You are correct. Environmentalists won't allow it in the end. They will block it going over any land that is not already built up. Just as they did the Keystone pipeline and pipelines historically have not harmed the environment when completed and even provided shelter for animals as they give birth. There will be some tiny fish or little bug or minuscule animal of some kind that environmentalists will claim the species will die if the rail is built.

Not to mention regulations, like the kind that shut down a major baby food plant months longer than was necessary and caused the USA to have to have baby formula quickly flown in from foreign countries, proving the US is now a 3rd world country having to rely on more developed nations for food for their children. I imagine in some of those countries they have a "feed the babies" commercial with photos of starving US babies, begging for money to send our babies food. That is how badly the government screws things up, especially under the control of the current administration.

Liberal/progressives/Democrats/environmentalists want a high speed rail but would fight tooth and nail every attempt to actually build one to save a snail from possible harm.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: blakdart


Bureaucracy seems to be the problem. Idiot planners.

Yep liberal government always screws things up rather than make them better. Even things they want and would be good for the nation they manage to screw up and screw up badly.

High speed rail can't happen as long as liberals fight tooth and nail to save a tiny fish to prevent it, or have regulations so convoluted, it takes so long to build, it starts to rust before it can be used.

TexGiven that America is incapable of building HS rail should the US bring in China?t

No , why not Japan ?
The Chinese use all cheap crap .

a reply to: ketsuko

Why are we allowing people to take short haul distance flights in the first place? The act of flight itself is a dangerous one.
What happens to those flights in the not so distance future when we're all paying European oil prices?

a reply to: AaarghZombies

The rail took off in England because the canal system was overloaded & over backed up. Today you see major population centers slapping down 6+ lane roads and the quality of life does not improve.

The Majority of America's rural communities have no reason to exist today because they were built during pre-mechanized farming.They provide little to no employment opportunities. They're such blights that you have people like the school's principle drive their students around because the town can't provide enough of a income to lure talent.

We'll require even fewer people in the future to farm with robotic technology such as robots that kill weeds not with cancer inducing chemical but with high powered lasers that zap the weeds.

I'm not saying everyone should get in the pod but the future of America are communities like Kalamazoo that are able to provide a healthy mix of blue & white collar jobs, while not being very heavily populated. If you move to a farming community you're going to have to move into a retirement home because your kids have to move away to find employment opportunity, a decent sized community enables your children to live near you to help you as your health declines.