Death: About heaven and hell

Enyalius great post, I found the info interesting.

There seems more research is needed.!

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by Enyalius
to train in the usage of these gifts doesn't make you superior.

Why then did you say, "I don't have to make myself 'feel' superior because i already am."?

as for the second part of your post...i didnt get it. english isnt my first language and the sentence build up confused me there.

No problem. You speak english well. Let me try again.

Earlier you said "as i said in my main post, there is no Good or Evil. there is only Order and Chaos."

It has been said that there is no is good or evil because they is open for interpretation based on one's views (what one can see as good, another can see as evil). What makes Order and Chaos different from this?

the "superior" part wasn't about being able to use gifts or not. the way i understood it was...have you opened your eyes to see what it really is or not. following a certain religion, no matter which one (i just picked christianity for personal reason), is just wrong. you're following the teachings of a book which is very flawed, following a herd and not question anything. not being able to think for yourself either and just take what is in the bible for granted.

i can't stress it enough. start learning how to use your own energy and find the answers yourself. and instead of reading about something, experience events yourself. there is so much more to learn and knowledge to gain. parts that were simply lost in the millenia past and parts that didn't get translated properly. parts of text that aren't what they are because people wrote it up to make it look more miraculous that it truly was.

everyone can quote a book and follow someone around. but who can think for themselves and grow in a spiritual way?

what makes Order and Chaos different from good and evil. hmm...how to explain. they are like double edged swords containing both good and evil.

Order wants everything to be in balance and harmony. there are people who prefer this life style as well because it makes life easier. for excample a cleaned up house makes you find your car keys easier. that is good. but to maintain order you sometimes have to do something which is seen as evil. take the excample i used of natural disasters so that the human population wouldn't get too big and weak. pro life activists/fundamentalist/concervative christians would be against this and call it evil.

Chaos on the other hand prefers a mess. people who don't clean their houses and got a harder time in life. people who struggle to get things done due to the chaotic decisions they've made. but does this mean that someone is a bad individual? not really, that would mean entire university campuses would be the place of hell spawns

Chaos interferes with little to nothing, because at this time it doesn't have to. mankind does everything themselves already. defying nature and finding cures to ilnesses so people can live longer, but missing out the bigger picture that they're killing the planet and taking away it's resources. i'd say that that is evil, killing the planet which bilions of people use so that only a few hundred thousand, who were ment to die and reincarnate, to live.

now it's up to us to make the "right" decisions for yourself. both Order and Chaos got entities re-presenting it. both communicate with you in the way of your concience or any other voice/idea that pops in your head. it's up to you to make a decision that makes life a bit orderly and easier or makes it a bit harder and chaotic. and most of the time you don't know which leads to what untill afterwards.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

Let's see;
I'm supposed to forget my life's experiences, which includes the communications from to Creator of the universe to me, and believe that your heart-stopping experience from alcohol abuse and coinciding delusions is more real?

I think not.

I've witnessed miracles, and they weren't alcohol-related.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Ok,

With no reading of the replies (due to my impatience) I have a few things to state.

1. I agree with your "not going into the pool of conciousness" as I value individuality over most everything else (call it stubborness, ego who knows).

2. You got off your brain on spirits and 'died' yet you study such interesting / intesne / spiritual disciplines. Maybe you just went on one of your 'trips' (or what you call OBE's) for longer than usual.

3. I have experienced nothing of what you stated except for extreme alcohol intoxication.

- Nazgarn

Originally posted by Enyalius
the "superior" part wasn't about being able to use gifts or not. the way i understood it was...have you opened your eyes to see what it really is or not.

Is it not their choice whether to open their eyes or not? What makes your choice superior?

Order wants everything to be in balance and harmony.

Why would order need to maintain a balance?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Let's see;
I'm supposed to forget my life's experiences, which includes the communications from to Creator of the universe to me, and believe that your heart-stopping experience from alcohol abuse and coinciding delusions is more real?

I think not.

I've witnessed miracles, and they weren't alcohol-related.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

that's irony believing that "god" communicated straight with you while saying my "delusions" aren't realy.

first of all the main forces don't communicate with you so dream on. those that do communicate are the enlightened entities and so called angels. same goes for the other team where the lesser entities communicate with you. even in christianity "god" itself NEVER speaks to a human being...EVER!! i wonder who is delusional... thought is shared as one among all. so one "angel" actualy represents and shares the thoughts and decisions and knowledge of the others. one big unity.

i suggest you read the entire thread first.

@Nazgarn
1. i felt the same. not ready to give up my humanity just yet.
2. seeing i "visited" several realms due to meditation i was well aware of what was going on. and because death allowed me to go even higher up i got closer to the "pool". didn't waste time asking questions that kept my mind occupied. as well as coming up with more questions on the spot. my family and i are very down to earth and don't get knocked of our sox or impressed easily.
3. best not to try it either. after coming back to life i went straight into coma. it felt weird being in coma and being unable to move a muscle. i could hear people and everything was dark. after a while i was able to move the corners of my mouth to show that i could hear em. least i could do to make them stop worrying and making noise. i learned one thing from that, which is also dealt with by our government in same way. when a coma patient is brain dead after x percentage...pull the plug.

@raphael
it is indeed the choice of the people whether to accept and use the gifts they are capable off and open their eyes. but everyone will eventually be forced to do so anyway. reason i'm "superior" as you call it, is because i'm one of the first to make that step ahead while the rest is still behind.

if order doesnt maintain balance there would only be chaos and there would be no need to make choices and have free will. if there was no chaos everything would be in order and a sort of utopia. once again no free will or choices will be needed. one can not excist without the other. they just fulfill the roles they need/want to. no idea whether these big forces choose to be either chaos or order or because they need to. this last paragraph i didn't get answers about. it's just speculation and logic from my side.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

Enyalius, your lack of knowledge and lack of a walk with God doesn't make me delusional.
God will speak directly to you one day as well. It might not be unti lyou're dead, but it will happen.

"God/Allah/Pool" has spoken to both of you, you just don't understand...

Originally posted by Enyalius
@raphael
it is indeed the choice of the people whether to accept and use the gifts they are capable off and open their eyes. but everyone will eventually be forced to do so anyway. reason i'm "superior" as you call it, is because i'm one of the first to make that step ahead while the rest is still behind.

So the first is superior to the last?

Also, the choice of the word superior was yours not mine.

if order doesnt maintain balance there would only be chaos and there would be no need to make choices and have free will. if there was no chaos everything would be in order and a sort of utopia. once again no free will or choices will be needed. one can not excist without the other. they just fulfill the roles they need/want to. no idea whether these big forces choose to be either chaos or order or because they need to. this last paragraph i didn't get answers about. it's just speculation and logic from my side.

I do not quite follow your logic when you transition from 'free will does not exist without both order and chaos' to 'order and chaos cannot exist without the other'. It seems you described order existing without chaos, and chaos existing without order.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Enyalius, your lack of knowledge and lack of a walk with God doesn't make me delusional.
God will speak directly to you one day as well. It might not be unti lyou're dead, but it will happen.

you're full of irony aren't you. but like i said my so called "delusions" is something you can experience by being in control of your energies and meditation/obe's as well. there is nothing special about it and everyone can experience similar events and gain same knowledge. i been "visiting upstairs" a bit more often then you i'm sure, and not once, cept this time, i had a drink.

as for thinking god spoke to you just makes you arrogant and shows lack of knowledge as well. maybe your "god" did, but it's definately not the same one ruling the universe then.

and uhm...i was dead 100%, got letters from the hospital and such that say the same thing. so your statement is quite flawed.


@raphael

i see what you mean with using the word "superior", it does sound all high and mighty doesn't it. but yes the first few people who make the choice and start to "work" with their gifts are indeed better. not just because they got a better understanding of it so they can teach others, but also the transition to come will put a lot less strain on their mind and body. so they got a bigger chance to come through it alive. this transition to the next step of evolution, no idea when it'll happen. lots of books and such point to 2012, but then again there are so many prophecies i don't take those seriously anymore.

to have free will means making choices that you feel comfortable with. but when there is nothing to choose from you don't need free will. the ones putting ideas and such in your mind, your concience, are entities from both the side of Order and Chaos. So for the excact use...i'd say that's it. how they came to decide to take on the role of one side i don't know. it came to be at the same time the universe came to be and seeing they said our minds aren't ready to understand the answer to those...i'm cleuless there as well.

Originally posted by Enyalius
[. it's up to you to make a decision that makes life a bit orderly and easier or makes it a bit harder and chaotic. and most of the time you don't know which leads to what untill afterwards.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Look at how you discovered chaos in it's core form: probably throught a chaotic path of life.


Anyway, I'm not surprised at how some people and mods deny other people experiences only to get (read leech) more information from them.
They called this blasphemy in the Bible.

About death being boring, I heard its possible to incarnate other beings in The Universe. It's worth it. The way I see it, once you join the Oneness or purgatory, you'll have to wait until the dynamics of the Universe allow the right World or conditions to emerge. It's logical in the sense that like quantum physics where only specific, discret or discontinuous energy transitions are allowed in an atom, you, with your full will, will only exist when you discover the right conditions for your incarnation.

Originally posted by Desmond

Originally posted by Enyalius
[. it's up to you to make a decision that makes life a bit orderly and easier or makes it a bit harder and chaotic. and most of the time you don't know which leads to what untill afterwards.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Enyalius]

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Look at how you discovered chaos in it's core form: probably throught a chaotic path of life.


Anyway, I'm not surprised at how some people and mods deny other people experiences only to get (read leech) more information from them.
They called this blasphemy in the Bible.

About death being boring, I heard its possible to incarnate other beings in The Universe. It's worth it. The way I see it, once you join the Oneness or purgatory, you'll have to wait until the dynamics of the Universe allow the right World or conditions to emerge. It's logical in the sense that like quantum physics where only specific, discret or discontinuous energy transitions are allowed in an atom, you, with your full will, will only exist when you discover the right conditions for your incarnation.

excactely you can re-incarnate. you will re-incarnate whether you like it or not. only, after manyi ncarnations, you will reach enlightenment and you can become one with this pool. then you can decide whether to stay as one or reincarnate.

death itself was pretty boring for me. i'ma guy that likes to party and such and they aint got parties up there

after reading this i just have a few comments/questions for the thread maker.

you say that people should make their own decisions on beliefs etc, yet you chose a "Religion" based on someone elses ideas. You didnt invent it.

You say that we are reincarnated. as humans or animals or both? and the point is to continue learning. here is the part where i may interpret you wrong. are you saying that we must keep trying (being reincarnated) until we receive higher spiritual knowledge. So basically you say that catholics are wrong?? and that they should "keep trying" until they become more spiritual? If that were the case, why would other religions be growing if people are coming back to learn? If that were the case they would be shrinking.

Maybe i got that part wrong.


And then after all this reincarnation and learning, we join this pool or angels or whatever you call it. Yet you say it is boring !

Also you mention that you will see no relatives in this pool land.. i found that strange.

also, you can time travel in this magical pool land ! you said so in your first post. so then could you time travel to a time when you joined this pool of angels ?

Personally this is filled with holes, and it just doesnt work.

Fill me in and ill think about it more.

people should make their own decisions. people that join a religion don't usualy do it by own choice but because their parents and rest of family made them too.

when being re-incarnated you will only be re-incarnated into 1 being, not 2. but as what you will reincarnate into and on which planet varies. the amount of souls will be the same, and when you don't like to be one with the pool you can choose to be reincarnated again.

christians, muslims and whatever will come back many many life times. everyone will come back many life times. gaining spiritual knowledge isn't an easy task. tibetan monks, who spend their entire life time, will gain it faster then most though. and each life time you come back you will be a step closer. it's just that following a religion which is way flawed will get you no where. that's why i think that tibetan monks and reiki users (who mainly focus on energy and meditation) will attain enlightenment faster. because they simply know what is out there. no matter how often you come back to continue your learning process, you'll always need a guide. that's what most religions should do, be a guide. a guide that does not hold straight and clear answers and gives you everything on a silver platter. but a guide that assists you into making you see things from different perspectives and make you reach new heights. pushing you to reach your potential.

religions/population growing is due to 2 things. 1 souls aren't re-incarnated onto the same planet needlessly, so there are most likely people walking about that were on another planet in past life times. animal kingdom is decreasing as well and those souls need to go somewhere too. religions growing is because there are more souls in human form which are put into a religion by their parents, not by themselves. only a small amount of people actually chooses for themselves which religion to follow. and religion has very little to do with being spiritual. like i said, everyone can quote a "holy book". being spiritual is entirely different.

i said Death is boring. i didn't join nor became one with anything. and death itself is pretty boring.

seeing no relatives when you're dead is quite simple. they have been re-incarnated already by the time you died. unless a relative died within 20 years or so before you died, you won't meet their soul. and when you meet their soul, they arent your family no more. family is just a man made concept just like good and evil. Family is nothing more then a herd of individuals teaching and looking after you till it's time to spread your own wings.

yes you can visit various time frames. but you can only watch and not participate. so no you can't skip forward and become one with the pool and be done with it.

reincarnation onto different planets is interesting.

i dont agree with your view that other religions...

but still interesting.

Originally posted by Enyalius
when being re-incarnated you will only be re-incarnated into 1 being, not 2.

Great post Enyalius!

In my life I have personally know about 25 people [including myself] who have had OBEs, and their experiences and mine confirm much of what you have said. [Not that this is an issue, but none of us use drugs or alcohol.] The OBE and NDE seem to be the same phenomena.

In one of my experiences, I was inside a 'pool' of shared thoughts and feelings with others and surrounded by an overwhelming feeling of loving and being loved. There was a strong sense of connectedness. It was so wonderful, that when I came back to my body, I literally cried a few minutes everyday for about two weeks. I have not wanted to go back there again, because it is too painful coming back here after experiencing that. In fact, as I was leaving, I was "kicking and screaming" that I didn't want to leave but was told very compassionately by about a dozen people [without astral bodies], that I was required to return for I had things to do. My life is pretty good on planet earth, it is just the contrast of here and there is so intense that by comparison this is suffering. That felt like home and this feels like a visit to a [mostly barbarian but evolving] planet.

Regarding, being re-incarnated into 1 being, not 2 - one of my experiences tells me differently. In one OBE, I decided to leave earth to travel far into space. I then realized I had no astral body and could see 360 degrees in all directions at once. It was cool. When I later decided to return to earth, I came to an abrupt stop about 500 miles from earth and a “silent voice” asked me where I wanted to go back to. It was as though I had a choice of several "bodies" to return to. This took me by surprise [with a touch of fear] and I opted to go back to the body I left from [What a chicken!]. Instantly I was back in this body. That happened a few years ago and it still makes me wonder. Could those bodies be in other times or are they in the current time? Anyone else have experiences along these lines?

I have visited areas that were "Hellish" - no fire and brimstone, just a mass of people in their own torment, anguish and despair. I do not know what that was about, but I did feel that it was not "punishment" but self-induced misery that they could get out of if they wanted to. To leave that area, I somehow "sped up my vibrations" and was quickly out of there and in much more pleasant environs.

You seem a little down on religion. I think there is a place for religions on this primitive planet. Some people can only understand those simple explanations, and it is probably helpful to them at the stage they are in.

I agree with you on people hanging around too long after their time is up. Why so clingy? I guess they don't know there is a lot more than just one little life.

Another observation, it seems like the ingestion of caffeine drastically reduces the frequency of OBEs. Has anyone else experienced that?

like i said, ANYONE can experience and find the answers themselves as well.

and you're an excample of that
you've experienced more then most and find more answers then most will find for a long long time

This is to the origonal post, I haven't read the replies.

Hun, alot of what you now believe is derived from your past belief - your experience and the experience of others will be different.

Please don't make the mistake of telling people what is true or faulse -- it may come back to bite you later. God is real, as is the heaven/hell - but that isn't where we go after death.

The soul sleeps in wait.
The energy, spirit - whatever you want to call it - that is a seperate thing from the soul. And the experience it has in death is different for each. Knowing about energy as with Rieki and other 'paranormal' things in this life - this does make the transition easier and there isn't always the confusion and stupper just after death.

I won't ramble - as I advised you, I won't tell people what to believe. Just do be careful with how you word your experience - give details and less of what you believe it means ok?

Thanks for sharing :-)
Angela

been a while since last time i replied here. been out partying most of the time and getting my ankles twisted...long story

abbadaba
i asked one of my friends what it ment that a soul was splitted into more pieces and more bodies. it actually seems to be possible, but is a rare occurance so little is known about it.

Angela
i'm working on a blog to write down my experiences in a more orderly and clear fashion. better worded as well. as for somethiing not liking it and biting me back...well i could tell you what i been going through past month but lets just say i'm already being "punished" for showing what is up there. i even shared prophecies with family members about global events taking place and after a few of em came out they believed me.

but i don't care. i literally spit in death's face and this is the price i got to pay. but if that means more people will get a better understanding of things it'll be worth it.

Originally posted by Enyalius
i also forgot to mention 1 thing. while being there I tried to find out how the universe and the "pool" came to be. I mean they had to start somewhere. Well I didn't get a concrete answer. Something with my mind not being ready to understand it yet, but both came to be at the same time.

This might sound weird, but I think somehow it all came about from magick. I think magick came about and everything came about because of it and is a part of it.
Of course this is just my theory