US Firearms and Todays Society

a reply to: Freeborn

I don't buy into the Armed Militia argument....I'd guess - yes, an educated guess but a guess all the same - that the vast majority of gun related killings are carried out by people who don't really give a toss about the 2nd Amendment, Armed Militia's or even your Constitution.

Exactly right, which is an even better reason to be armed. To protect yourself and your family from those who would take your belongings and/or your life.

but something has to be done because what you have at present is absolute insanity.

Again, you're right. People need to stop listening to media and wringing their hands in fear. 92% of violent crimes in this country do NOT involve firearms. Yet that's all we ever hear about. Why? Because that's where they want our focus and yours too. Disarming the public is a Marxist liberal's wet dream.

Preserving the status quo will just result in more and more senseless killings.

Right yet again. There needs to be a lot more guns in the hands of the American people who have been trained with them, so they can defend themselves against street-thugs who know most people are unarmed. We also need to enforce the laws already on the books. Commit a gun crime, pay dearly for it.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JinMI

I see it as a public health issue.

precisely!! A mental health issue....

I bet in countries and cultures where most parents instill traditional common-sense values in their children, both murders and suicides are lower.

As I noted in the other thread, there are 400 million guns in the United States. Banning guns is not a practical solution. There is no realistic way to implement that. It doesn't matter if you think that's absurd. You can be a bigot and display your hate for Americans all you want, but it is just a fact, and it's a waste of time to argue about it.

This is one of the major problems with this discussion is we waste a lot of time arguing about things that are just never going to happen or would be ineffective. Magazine limits is a good example: if you dig into the details of these mass shootings, the shooters usually change mags multiple times. Making them change mags more often will do precisely nothing. It's another waste of time.

"Assault weapon" ban? We did it for 10 years. Had no impact. Again, waste of time. But these things get headlines and campaign interest, so they get all the attention.

This nonsense actually prevents us from discussing practical solutions.

One thing I'd like to point out is that almost everyone agrees mental health is a problem. Mental health is not a new problem, and there are almost always numerous red flags that are missed. So more red flag laws? Well, no, again that's not going to help much. All that does is take their gun, and it's too easy for them to get around it.

As I recall, the Newtown shooter killed his mother and used her gun. If someone doesn't want to kill and steal to get a gun, they are easy to obtain through straw purchases. Those are already illegal but the federal government hardly prosecutes them, whether there's a Democrat or Republican in office. They're actually prosecuted more by Republican administrations, for the record.

So what can we do? Well, decades ago, most of the people who commit these mass shootings would have been institutionalized because they usually have a long history of mental illness, and they'd have been put away before they had the chance to do this. Now, back then, our mental health system was also barbaric and abusive, and we put people there who didn't belong there. Today, we have swung completely back the other way to the point where it's virtually impossible to put dangerous people away for their own good and the safety of others.

I think we need to address that. Our institutions are much better now, as far as the quality of life of the patients. But it's ridiculously hard to involuntarily commit people. I'm not saying we need to go back to the way it was, but there has to be a middle ground and I think it involves institutionalizing some mentally ill people, more than we do now.

Will that solve everything? Of course not. But it is something most people agree is part of the problem. Almost everyone acknowledges mental health is part of the issue. It is one part we can actually come together on and try to improve in relatively short order.

In the long run, we need to find the root causes of all this mental illness.

We also need to address our overall crime problem. The U.S. has violent crime rates of a 3rd world country. Some will say that's because of all the guns, but the fact is most of our violent crime does not involve guns. That is obviously not the cause. We need to figure that out if we want to fix this in the long run.

Mental health is an issue not constained by Economic Stratifications as some have posited here.

Mental Health encompasses both the uneducated and methodicals verging on the higher forms of human predatory nature, i.e. Seriels Killers and pyschos.

The underlying issues here involving Spirituality and by that, I don't mean God or any single one religion, rather, Ethics and Morality.

Basically, I think our society is facing an issue where consequence isn't respected. This is due to particular ideology and radical legislations involving the reduction of charges for certain crimes and slapping of wrist.

More importantly, education is a must.

1. Education is essential and I totally agree with the topic of weapons, uses, damages and why the 2nd exist to began with should be taught more often in schools.

Another facet is heightened Security apparatuses.

2. Armed Security is a real response to these events. However this would have to be a Private endeavor as legislation towards it would most certainly yeild new taxes, of which I'm okay with however I don't represent the US.
Private security can be funded locally as well. That or an all voluteer force who'll definitely step up.

All in all, Mental Health is an issue we have to acknowledge and take steps toward educated everybody. I akin this to a Drivers License. This, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JinMI

I see it as a public health issue.

precisely!! A mental health issue....

I bet in countries and cultures where most parents instill traditional common-sense values in their children, both murders and suicides are lower.

I think culture is definitely part of it. In the other thread one of our UK members was going on about how this doesn't happen there. I lived in the UK for a few years. There is a noticeable difference in culture. They have a more homogeneous society, for one. But one other major thing I noticed when I lived in the UK:

We consume a lot of the same movies, TV, music, video games, etc. But the violence isn't glorified the same way it is here. I'm an avid gamer, so I get the defensiveness from the gaming community, but there have been studies showing that violence in media does have an affect on young people. While this media is consumed in other countries, it doesn't seem to be as pervasive as it is in the U.S. I honestly think that is part of the issue. But you can't even talk about it here.

As a matter of fact, this was just released by ISDs in the area...

South San ISD
The Southside district sent a letter to parents saying protecting the community is a "top priority" and listed new protocols for the remainder of the school year: no backpacks allowed at any campus for the next two days, access to campus limited to parents/guardians with proper ID, more "safety support" at each campus, and Thursday, May 26 will be a half day.

The district is also encouraging families to speak with their students and encourage them to report any suspicious activity.

Source: www.mysanantonio.com...

The above article makes some recommendations that are sound.

I find it interesting that the same people who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment were on site in Ukraine on CNN glorifying the arming of all citizens with AK-47 “Assault” weapons to defend their nation from the Russian Invasion.

This is what the 2nd amendment is all about.

This is what the 2nd amendment is all about.
Remember our American history. The English troops were going door to door taking guns from people and the “ shot heard round the world” happend at Lexington and Concord which started the American Revolutionary War. The townspeople had enough of the Authoritarian Dictator King George III. And remember Hitler took all the guns away from the the jews before he implemented his EVIL final solution

I pray for those children and the parents who are going through unimaginable loss.

Just saw The resident in chief and he blew it. I felt like I was being yelled at. Divider in chief. He looked like he had no energy looks like he is on deaths door and black eyes.
That was the most despicable speech from a President I have ever seen

originally posted by: Arnie123
As a matter of fact, this was just released by ISDs in the area...

South San ISD
The Southside district sent a letter to parents saying protecting the community is a "top priority" and listed new protocols for the remainder of the school year: no backpacks allowed at any campus for the next two days, access to campus limited to parents/guardians with proper ID, more "safety support" at each campus, and Thursday, May 26 will be a half day.

The district is also encouraging families to speak with their students and encourage them to report any suspicious activity.

Source: www.mysanantonio.com...

The above article makes some recommendations that are sound.

It's worth noting that Parkland had a security assessment by a security expert not long before that shooting.

The district virtually ignored all his recommendations. Even simple procedural changes that could've been implemented immediately at no cost were ignored.

Some people don't want to entertain any solution or preventative action that doesn't involve banning guns.

originally posted by: Brassmonkey
I find it interesting that the same people who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment were on site in Ukraine on CNN glorifying the arming of all citizens with AK-47 “Assault” weapons to defend their nation from the Russian Invasion.

This is what the 2nd amendment is all about.
Remember our American history. The English troops were going door to door taking guns from people and the “ shot heard round the world” happend at Lexington and Concord which started the American Revolutionary War. The townspeople had enough of the Authoritarian Dictator King George III. And remember Hitler took all the guns away from the the jews before he implemented his EVIL final solution

I pray for those children and the parents who are going through unimaginable loss.

Just saw The resident in chief and he blew it. I felt like I was being yelled at. Divider in chief. He looked like he had no energy looks like he is on deaths door and black eyes.
That was the most despicable speech from a President I have ever seen

originally posted by: Brassmonkey

That was the most despicable speech from a President I have ever seen

You must not have seen his speech in Atlanta earlier this year.

The man is disgusting.

a reply to: Brassmonkey

What did the potato say this time?

One of the downsides of a free society is that people are free to be crazy, stupid, etc.

We can't prevent mass murder. If some nut job decides they want to kill a bunch of people, they will find a way. Unfortunately, guns do make it easier. However, I am not willing to give up my right to be armed in the name of safety. It is like banning cars to prevent car accidents. We just all have to accept some level of risk.

Despite the media reporting, shootings like this are relatively rare occurrences. Nowadays, the media is labeling gang violence as a mass shooting which I don't think is really accurate. For example, we just had 2 killed and 10 shot at a McDonald's downtown. It was just straight up thug on thug shooting in a crowd. There is a huge difference between the far more common urban violence versus random shooting of innocents such as this incident.

Keep in mind, the deadliest incident at a school was in 1927.... some nut job blew up a school.

Deadliest School Massacre, Bath Michigan

a reply to: Edumakated

For the same reasons you mentioned, handguns are rarely demonized like the beloved AR-15 even though handguns account for the majority of not only MSMs definition of mass shootings but all gun crime.

I always find it interesting that you can go to any bank, in any town, out in the middle of nowhere or a big city and there will be an armed security guard. At. Every. Last. One.

Yet, our most precious asset, our kids.... can't get armed security at schools. Anytime someone proposes having armed security at schools, people lose their minds.

Make it, make sense...

originally posted by: Edumakated
I always find it interesting that you can go to any bank, in any town, out in the middle of nowhere or a big city and there will be an armed security guard. At. Every. Last. One.

Yet, our most precious asset, our kids.... can't get armed security at schools. Anytime someone proposes having armed security at schools, people lose their minds.

Make it, make sense...

Yeah but you can't have that at schools because "it'll be like a prison."

The people who say that take their kids to other places that are protected by guns without giving it a second thought.

a reply to: Brassmonkey

I find it interesting that the same people who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment were on site in Ukraine on CNN glorifying the arming of all citizens with AK-47 “Assault” weapons to defend their nation from the Russian Invasion.

the only thing i see wrong with this post is, you should have said real “Assault” weapons, not semi automatic ones that look like the big black scary ones.

the definition of assault weapon before the a@@hats on the hill, and state legislatures changed it.
i was looking for the U.S Army reg, can't seem to find it any more, could be my search skills are going down hill, but i'm thinking it's something else, any way here's a wiki,

The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[18] In this strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]
It must be capable of selective fire.
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle, examples of intermediate cartridges are the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm NATO.
Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are not assault rifles according to the U.S. Army's definition. For example:
Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 180 metres (200 yd).[19]
Select-fire rifles such as the Fedorov Avtomat, FN FAL, M14, and H&K G3 main battle rifles are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
Semi-automatic-only rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.
The more political term assault weapon is often conflated with assault rifle and does not require all of the characteristics above – especially the selective fire capability which is functionally illegal in the U.S. for civilian use.

Assault Rifle

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: JinMI

I see it as a public health issue.

precisely!! A mental health issue....

I bet in countries and cultures where most parents instill traditional common-sense values in their children, both murders and suicides are lower.

I think culture is definitely part of it. In the other thread one of our UK members was going on about how this doesn't happen there. I lived in the UK for a few years. There is a noticeable difference in culture. They have a more homogeneous society, for one. But one other major thing I noticed when I lived in the UK:

We consume a lot of the same movies, TV, music, video games, etc. But the violence isn't glorified the same way it is here. I'm an avid gamer, so I get the defensiveness from the gaming community, but there have been studies showing that violence in media does have an affect on young people. While this media is consumed in other countries, it doesn't seem to be as pervasive as it is in the U.S. I honestly think that is part of the issue. But you can't even talk about it here.

Unfortunately, it's starting to look like America is adjusting to a new reality where "mass shootings" are commonplace, and acceptable.

The News Media is not covering this shooting wall-to-wall like they did Columbine, and Sandyhook. What will this one be called?

Here in the Chicago area, mass-shootings occur every month, and are barely covered. They already are the "new normal" here.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Brassmonkey

What did the potato say this time?

Biden believes killing 100,000 children one month before they are born is OK. So any outrage over children killed 5, 7, 9 years after they are born, is disingenuous on his part.

(Or anyone who has that warped belief system.)

a reply to: Edumakated

growing up (I am 49) we had an armed cop on site, whenever kids were on premise, and every kid had a shotgun/hunting rifle in their truck.

*shrugs* now all cops are bad, I still dont get it

The answer is all to easy for me. Discipline -reinforced with corporal punishment. At home, in school and anywhere else it's necessary. I'm a 'boomer' as the young folks like to say, but discipline works, always has. I took a lot of licks at school from a paddle from a dean - gladly. Because the dean could not do with that board, what my father could do if I was given detention, or worse, suspension LOL. They got me through puberty with a good head on my shoulders 👍. It also didn't hurt that I was in US Army basic training by 17.