Active shooter reported at Texas elementary school

a reply to: NoMoreFools

That’s simply untrue. There is no law that precludes one from owning a gun if they have legally purchased marijuana.

actually under federal law Marijuana is a controlled substance. and federal law says that,

section 922(d)(3) of Title 18 of the United States Code. That section prohibits the sale or transfer of any firearm or ammunition to any person that is “an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance,”

THE LAW OF MARIJUANA USE AND FIREARM POSSESSION IN CALIFORNIA

now weather it's enforced in today's climate is another question seeing how so many states have legalized it's use.

originally posted by: NoMoreFools

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: matafuchs

It is a mental health issue not a cop out.

It's a slippery slope. In California, where pot is legal, pot users who legally purchase the herb can't get a gun. By submitting your ID at the time of of purchase, you're automatically registered as "not right head" enough to own a firearm.

Suppose such a law extends to getting banned from Twitter for certain kinds of posts, or if a neighbor reports you for having a loud argument with a domestic partner or family member or neighbor? What if merely asking for mental health care from your insurance company, or being a member of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous or Gamblers Anonymous disqualifies you?

That’s simply untrue. There is no law that precludes one from owning a gun if they have legally purchased marijuana.

Under California law, any use of marijuana triggers a prohibition on firearm ownership and/or possession, despite California state allowing its recreational use.

www.canorml.org...

When purchasing a gun, you are required to fill out Federal “Firearms Transactions Record” Form (ATF Form 4473), where question 11e specifically inquires about your current drug usage (Possession of a Controlled Substance, HSC 11350).

If you take marijuana medically or recreationally, and answer this question honestly, you will be disqualified from purchasing the gun (Dangerous Weapons, PC 12020).

“Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? the use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medical or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”

esfandilawfirm.com...

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NoMoreFools

That’s simply untrue. There is no law that precludes one from owning a gun if they have legally purchased marijuana.

actually under federal law Marijuana is a controlled substance. and federal law says that,

section 922(d)(3) of Title 18 of the United States Code. That section prohibits the sale or transfer of any firearm or ammunition to any person that is “an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance,”

THE LAW OF MARIJUANA USE AND FIREARM POSSESSION IN CALIFORNIA

now weather it's enforced in today's climate is another question seeing how so many states have legalized it's use.

That’s fear mongering at its best.

By federal law you are allowed to own a gun until convicted of a felony. Thus, you cannot be precluded from owning a gun based on presumptive use. Only after you’ve been arrested and convicted can it be used against you.

Buying marijuana at a dispensary does not disqualify a person from gun ownership.

Constitutional fact.

a reply to: NoMoreFools

i can't help you don't understand the facts as pointed out, the questions ask if your are a illegal user.
even if you answer yes in a state that has legalized it use, your still breaking federal law, which says sales or transfer is prohibited. smart move would be answer no.

federal law has not changed.

again if the feds enforce that part of the law is debatable seeing how so many states have legalized it.


here is the the ATF form,

Warning on the Top of form,

WARNING: The information you provide will be used to determine whether you are prohibited by Federal or State law from receiving a firearm. Certain violations of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921 et. seq., are punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment and/or up to a $250,000 fine. Any person who exports a firearm without a proper authorization from either the Department of Commerce or the Department of State, as applicable, is subject to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 and up to 20 years imprisonment. Read the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on this form. Prepare in original only at the licensed premises (including business temporarily conducted from a qualifying gun show or event in the same State in which the premises is located) unless the transaction qualifies under 18 U.S.C. 922(c). All entries must be handwritten in ink unless completed under ATF Rul. 2016-2.PLEASE PRIN

the question on 21 e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalizedfor medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

the form it's self, warning opens a PDF,

Firearms Transaction Record


here's a way you can test that, go to a state where it's legal to smoke weed, go to buy a gun, answer with a yes and see if they sale it to you. if they sell it to you then their not enforcing it, if they don't and site your answer to 21 e is the reason then you'll know.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NoMoreFools

i can't help you don't understand the facts as pointed out, the questions ask if your are a illegal user.
even if you answer yes in a state that has legalized it use, your still breaking federal law, which says sales or transfer is prohibited. smart move would be answer no.

federal law has not changed.

again if the feds enforce that part of the law is debatable seeing how so many states have legalized it.


here is the the ATF form,

Warning on the Top of form,

WARNING: The information you provide will be used to determine whether you are prohibited by Federal or State law from receiving a firearm. Certain violations of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921 et. seq., are punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment and/or up to a $250,000 fine. Any person who exports a firearm without a proper authorization from either the Department of Commerce or the Department of State, as applicable, is subject to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 and up to 20 years imprisonment. Read the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on this form. Prepare in original only at the licensed premises (including business temporarily conducted from a qualifying gun show or event in the same State in which the premises is located) unless the transaction qualifies under 18 U.S.C. 922(c). All entries must be handwritten in ink unless completed under ATF Rul. 2016-2.PLEASE PRIN

the question on 21 e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalizedfor medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

the form it's self, warning opens a PDF,

Firearms Transaction Record


here's a way you can test that, go to a state where it's legal to smoke weed, go to buy a gun, answer with a yes and see if they sale it to you. if they sell it to you then their not enforcing it, if they don't and site your answer to 21 e is the reason then you'll know.

Study the 4a and the 5a and then let me know.

You’re falling for fear tactics.

I live in a legal state. I’ve been a medical grower , and a gun owner, for a decade.

a reply to: NoMoreFools

Study the 4a and the 5a and then let me know.

4a and 5a where? there is no 4a or 5a in section b titled (Section B - Must Be Completed Personally By Transferee/Buyer) in the form posted.

I live in a legal state. I’ve been a medical grower , and a gun owner, for a decade.

did you answer yes or no, if you answered yes then their not enforcing it.
if you answered no then you answered wisely.
still doesn't change the fact that Federal Law hasn't changed.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NoMoreFools

Study the 4a and the 5a and then let me know.

4a and 5a where? there is no 4a or 5a in section b titled (Section B - Must Be Completed Personally By Transferee/Buyer) in the form posted.

I live in a legal state. I’ve been a medical grower , and a gun owner, for a decade.

did you answer yes or no, if you answered yes then their not enforcing it.
if you answered no then you answered wisely.
still doesn't change the fact that Federal Law hasn't changed.

4th amendment and 5th amendment.

This goes back to my earlier post. Look up Enumerated Rights folks.

When answering the question are you an illegally taking a substance the answer is no. They are legally prescribed MJ. The state laws allow it.

This comes up all the time in Concealed Classes here in FL. Having a MedMJ license does not disqualify you.

originally posted by: NoMoreFools

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NoMoreFools

i can't help you don't understand the facts as pointed out, the questions ask if your are a illegal user.
even if you answer yes in a state that has legalized it use, your still breaking federal law, which says sales or transfer is prohibited. smart move would be answer no.

federal law has not changed.

again if the feds enforce that part of the law is debatable seeing how so many states have legalized it.


here is the the ATF form,

Warning on the Top of form,

WARNING: The information you provide will be used to determine whether you are prohibited by Federal or State law from receiving a firearm. Certain violations of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921 et. seq., are punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment and/or up to a $250,000 fine. Any person who exports a firearm without a proper authorization from either the Department of Commerce or the Department of State, as applicable, is subject to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 and up to 20 years imprisonment. Read the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on this form. Prepare in original only at the licensed premises (including business temporarily conducted from a qualifying gun show or event in the same State in which the premises is located) unless the transaction qualifies under 18 U.S.C. 922(c). All entries must be handwritten in ink unless completed under ATF Rul. 2016-2.PLEASE PRIN

the question on 21 e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalizedfor medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

the form it's self, warning opens a PDF,

Firearms Transaction Record


here's a way you can test that, go to a state where it's legal to smoke weed, go to buy a gun, answer with a yes and see if they sale it to you. if they sell it to you then their not enforcing it, if they don't and site your answer to 21 e is the reason then you'll know.

Study the 4a and the 5a and then let me know.

You’re falling for fear tactics.

I live in a legal state. I’ve been a medical grower , and a gun owner, for a decade.

Let me ask you an honest question. When you purchase a firearm, there is a question asking about drug use, do you answer honestly or check no? And if you answer honestly and check "yes" are you still allowed to purchase the firearm?

I have bought a gun before, seen the form, seen the question, and do not doubt the facts presented.

originally posted by: NoMoreFools

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: NoMoreFools

Study the 4a and the 5a and then let me know.

4a and 5a where? there is no 4a or 5a in section b titled (Section B - Must Be Completed Personally By Transferee/Buyer) in the form posted.

I live in a legal state. I’ve been a medical grower , and a gun owner, for a decade.

did you answer yes or no, if you answered yes then their not enforcing it.
if you answered no then you answered wisely.
still doesn't change the fact that Federal Law hasn't changed.

4th amendment and 5th amendment.

this isn't a question of constitutionality, it's a simple question of formality and current laws.

originally posted by: matafuchs
This goes back to my earlier post. Look up Enumerated Rights folks.

When answering the question are you an illegally taking a substance the answer is no. They are legally prescribed MJ. The state laws allow it.

This comes up all the time in Concealed Classes here in FL. Having a MedMJ license does not disqualify you.

www.atf.gov...
section 21e.

I'm asking not telling. But read the question as it's written.

originally posted by: matafuchs
When answering the question are you an illegally taking a substance the answer is no. They are legally prescribed MJ. The state laws allow it.

The ATF is Federal and the Federal Government currently says marijuana is a controlled substance. That's the law, I may disagree with that law and if you want to be a pothead that's on you but if you tell them you're a stoner that means no *pew* *pew* for you.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: matafuchs
When answering the question are you an illegally taking a substance the answer is no. They are legally prescribed MJ. The state laws allow it.

The ATF is Federal and the Federal Government currently says marijuana is a controlled substance. That's the law, I may disagree with that law and if you want to be a pothead that's on you but if you tell them you're a stoner that means no *pew* *pew* for you.

as I read it, that's the way the law is right now. Disagree as you wish, but it's pretty much exactly that.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Correct. We are talking about two things here though. Sorry I did not clarify.

EDC (concealed) and purchase of a weapon. I know the questions. I have answered them before. There was a question earlier about losing your guns or not being able to get your concealed. I was talking about Florida

The problem is...who puts on the form...yes? The ATF should provide urine strips for gun sales if they want it to be accurate.

a reply to: just4fun

DPS Regional Director Victor Escalon said on Thursday that the gunman “was not confronted by anybody” on his way in. Banks have multiple levels of security but our kids dont deserve the same? 500 million AK-47's worldwide over half here, many as parts kits with full auto fire control components and no checks needed to own. At lest 70 million AR-15's. What exactly can you do except provide security?

a reply to: network dude

But the entry into the school should have been impossible, and at the very least, those kids and teachers should be alive today. We can't go back in time and change things, but we can make GOD DAMN SURE that every school in the United states is secure, has single points of entry, and no other means of entry are possible

I'm guessing the Door was open for 1 of 2 reasons.

1. the school custodian neglected the doors and is a Lazy POS .
2. One of the School Teachers smokes and left the door open thinking it to be harmless.

People keep asking why the school had no Recourse Officer on duty , I would think because it's an Elementary school they don't typically have resource Officers , no one expects a Fourth grader to come in spraying with an Uzi.

I didn't see a Recourse Officer at my school until Junior High.

I remember when Donald Trump criticized the Parkland Florida police for standing around while children got slaughtered, and said if he was there, he would have rushed in to (try) and save the kids.

That's exactly what happened in Uvalde Texas, but it was Jacob Albarado who stormed the school and minimized the number of deaths by shooting the assailant.

Source: nypost.com...

originally posted by: research100
here educate yourself The bullet from an AR-15 does an entirely different kind of violence to the human body. It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,” says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” And the exit wound can be a nasty, jagged hole the size of an orange.

originally posted by: panoz77
a reply to: research100

Being shot with an AR-15 does not disfigure a body to the point that DNA would be needed to identify a body, that's just nonsense. A .50 cal? Now I could understand that.

And your point is? My point stands. DNA to identify the bodies? HOGWASH.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: network dude

But the entry into the school should have been impossible, and at the very least, those kids and teachers should be alive today. We can't go back in time and change things, but we can make GOD DAMN SURE that every school in the United states is secure, has single points of entry, and no other means of entry are possible

I'm guessing the Door was open for 1 of 2 reasons.

1. the school custodian neglected the doors and is a Lazy POS .
2. One of the School Teachers smokes and left the door open thinking it to be harmless.

People keep asking why the school had no Recourse Officer on duty , I would think because it's an Elementary school they don't typically have resource Officers , no one expects a Fourth grader to come in spraying with an Uzi.

I didn't see a Recourse Officer at my school until Junior High.

Just from the latest news conference, a teacher proped the door open.

They proped it open ether to look at the truck crash or were taking a break when the truck crashed. They went back in the school to get their cell phone. They proped the door open again.

This teacher was then intercepted by the officer assigned to the school that was returning. This officer had just passed the shooter who was crouched down between cars.

This is truly a tragedy of errors. Any one of which, had they not have occurred, would have stopped the shooting in the school.

Fox is now reporting that the border patrol team arrived 30 mins earlier and local pd wouldnt let them go in.

If true someone needs to go down hard for that decision, stepping into harms way is literally what teams like that are designed to do.

Tactical team prevented from entering school earlier by local Uvalde police: report
The tactical team that killed Uvalde school shooter Salvador Ramos reportedly arrived at the school earlier than was previously known and was delayed in entering the building Ramos was barricaded inside.

Two officials briefed on the situation told the New York Times that specialized Border Patrol agents arrived at Robb Elementary School between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. which is roughly 30 minutes earlier than previously thought.

Additionally, the officials say that the Uvalde Police Department held the Border Patrol agents back from going inside.

For more on this story: Tactical team prevented from entering school earlier by local Uvalde police: report

Fox news