Did Isaiah Prophecy Jesus as Lucifer?

Isaiah 7:15

New International Version
He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,

New Living Translation
By the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong, he will be eating yogurt and honey.

English Standard Version
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

Berean Study Bible
By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

King James Bible
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Whomever the above concerns doesn't sound very Omniscient. He changes his mind when he is old enough to eat curds and honey. But maybe the text isn't talking about Jesus. On to the preceding verse:

Isaiah 7:14

New International Version
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New Living Translation
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’).

English Standard Version
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel.

King James Bible
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Some form of artificial insemination occurs, and a virgin conceives. That sounds like Jesus. And furthermore he is called "Immanuel" which translates to "God with us." Jesus is often referred to as God (with us). Notice the prophecy doesn't state he will actually be God with us, just that he will be called that.

The same Book of Isaiah prophecies Lucifer, who's name means "morning star". Jesus Christ is called "morning star" in Revelation (22:16). Lucifer is charged with ascending God's own throne, to the heights, and Jesus Christ did this on accident or on purpose if he is not really God. Many interpret the Biblical Lucifer to be God's highest ranking angel before his fall, which Jesus Christ if God's firstborn would indeed be. And during the fall of Lucifer, there is much mourning... not so much to be expected of a despised demon, but to be expected of history's most beloved martyr.

I must admit to the reader that I have a bias that would debunk this post's title, if I have not presented the evidence plainly: I believe I have evidence I may be leading the ascendant life of the Antichrist:

- March 23, 1985 is my birthday. 23 is by (Robert Anton Wilson et al) many conspiracy theorists considered the number of the Illuminati, or of significance. More importantly, March 23 is the Spring Equinox, symbolizing the rebirth of the sun (or son of God).

- My mother's maiden name was "Bowers," often rooted in the Bauer family name, the root bloodline of the Rothschilds. "Bors" is identified by Bloodline of the Holy Grail: the Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed by Laurence Gardner as a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ.

- I'm an asexual virgin born in Virginia, and I have long brown hair and a beard, so I look superficially like Jesus in the paintings.

- One year and month before I was born, on Valentine's Day, Babaji (rumored to be Shiva) winked the instant before his heart stopped.

- The founder of my religion (the "Individuate Church") suggested I create it and was made an outer head of it. He was born on the Ides of March. Christian theologians speculate Revelation Prophecy predicts the Antichrist will be betrayed by the head of his religion with a shot to the head.

I think you are reading far too much into things you don’t understand. What does being an asexual virgin from Virginia have to do with anything biblical? You sure that Jesus had long brown hair and a beard? Do you have proof of this?

None of the things you post about being the ascendant antichrist make any sense at all.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

yall must be sippin on purple Kool Aid made with mushrooms up yonder at the "Individuate Church".

Incel alert!
FBI watch this one.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

Babies were often given a mixture of curd (curdled milk) sweetened with honey in times before baby formula was available. So, the verse is actually saying that even before he was weaned, He knew right from wrong.

Also, the verse divisions were an addition to enable easy memorization, or to assist the meter in chanting, and weren't in the original text. This is why context is so important in interpretation of the scriptures. Most verse divisions are purely arbitrary to the meaning of what was being divided up.

Lucifer is also a Romano-Greek name. Isaiah would not have used that name, he used the Hebrew appellation; הֵילֵל, (hêlēl, pronunciation: hay-lale) which means "morning star" or "shining one" in Isaiah 14:12. "Lucifer" was probably first used in the translation in the Vulgate Codex, which originated about 382 years after Christ. Although it was revered by the early Church, the Vulgate has known inaccuracies, errors, and mis-translations, which have been shown up by earlier texts and text fragments.

Also, in Revelation 22:16, Jesus calls himself the "star bright morning" (or "the star, the bright, the morning" if you include all the uses of the definite article), not helel (check the word order in original Koine Greek texts).

I fully support the skepticism of the first three replies to my thread. I said "I believe I have evidence I may be leading," very uncertain language. "Maybe" these count as signs.

The thing is, I think the tenuous signs I provided are about as concrete as the signs most religious minded people go with. Perhaps not at all.

As to the fourth post, even if he was veryvery young when he first ate curds and honey, he wasn't eating curds and honey until shortly after his birth. He wasn't old enough to eat curds and honey in the womb. Meaning according to the text, he wasn't old enough to choose the right (he wasn't God) the entire time he was alive, and didn't do so until after he was born.

And the rest of your post just confirmed that both Jesus Christ and Lucifer are named Morning Star, and both are prophesied in Isaiah.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

Yeah,

Jesus is not Lucifer or Satan.

You may wish that to be the case but you are entirely incorrect.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

Well if you are not pro Christ you are anti christ
You are self important so that makes you non Christian
You claim knowledge that you don’t understand so that fits
You think you look like a European styled Jesus for what that’s worth (very unlikely Jesus had long hair, was white, did He have a beard?) I am not sure
You come on ats where mostly you have no platform or power of influence
You think you understand the bible, (trust me, satan knows the bible) and clearly have never studied it so, my opinion, you are an antichrist but certainly not “the” antichrist


What’s ahead is no role playing game, no place to pretend something you are not. Satan’s plan is to destroy humanity, destroy Gods creation, corrupt Gods love and split Gods creation from God. Death, destruction and pain, 1000 times as bad as WW2 or the like, global, suffering on an unprecedented scale, famine, war, a time of total human destruction and you, you want to be behind this, you think you can be behind this

a reply to: WalkingHolic

I'm not sure about Jesus Being Lucifer BUT .

If you pay very close attention to the ' God ' of the Old Testament , Study the words and actions of the Old Testament God I think it is plain to see what the Jews were worshiping in the Old Testament was not ' God ' but something either masquerading as God or something that thought it was God .

Jesus was no fan of the Jewish Torah nor organized religion , the God of Jesus was a different God I think .

a reply to: chr0naut

since you edited your post so that you are saying that Jesus Christ as the "Morning Star" is a mistranslation, I decided to find out how often the mistranslation occurs:

American Standard Version
Revelation 22:16 (ASV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.

The Bible in Basic English
Revelation 22:16 (BBE) I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give witness to you of these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star.

Common English Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CEB) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to bear witness to all of you about these things for the churches. I'm the root and descendant of David, the bright morning star.

Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha
Revelation 22:16 (CEBA) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to bear witness to all of you about these things for the churches. I'm the root and descendant of David, the bright morning star.

The Complete Jewish Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CJB) "I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Messianic communities. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CSB) "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright Morning Star."

The Darby Translation
Revelation 22:16 (DBY) *I* Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies. *I* am the root and offspring of David, the bright [and] morning star.

Nearly if not every English translation says morning star or Morning Star. So in English Jesus is the Morning Star, and in the Old Testament it isn't Lucifer it is the Morning Star. Both figures are prophesied in Isaiah, and both have the same name, (in addition to the other parallels I mentioned). Jesus Christ nowadays (by modern translations) is called Morning Star even if that was somehow an accident, so it still seems likely to me that a prophecy about him in the same book as a guy with the same name as him might both be about him.

I also noticed: If Christ is supposed to be God, He always was. If he was old enough to eat curds and honey before he chose the right over the wrong, this doesn't explicitly state he ever chose the right; it just says he was old enough for curds and honey before it happened. Maybe it never did.

If the text is divinely inspired, this can't be human error.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

It will be interesting to see where this goes, but I think you are out of your league. Somehow, I don’t think anyone is going to buy your theory that Jesus is Lucifer, least of all a Christian.

originally posted by: WalkingHolic
a reply to: chr0naut

since you edited your post so that you are saying that Jesus Christ as the "Morning Star" is a mistranslation, I decided to find out how often the mistranslation occurs:

American Standard Version
Revelation 22:16 (ASV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.

The Bible in Basic English
Revelation 22:16 (BBE) I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give witness to you of these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star.

Common English Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CEB) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to bear witness to all of you about these things for the churches. I'm the root and descendant of David, the bright morning star.

Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha
Revelation 22:16 (CEBA) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to bear witness to all of you about these things for the churches. I'm the root and descendant of David, the bright morning star.

The Complete Jewish Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CJB) "I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Messianic communities. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Revelation 22:16 (CSB) "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright Morning Star."

The Darby Translation
Revelation 22:16 (DBY) *I* Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies. *I* am the root and offspring of David, the bright [and] morning star.

Vaticanus is a translation from the original texts, in Greek and Syraic, into Latin.

These English texts you refer to are further abstracted, via Vaticanus, from the original texts.

Very many English translations utilize Textus Vaticanus as their source, because it was officially sanctioned quite early by the Roman Catholic Church. Once it had their seal of approval, it was hard to backtrack when alternate authentic texts were found.

Nearly if not every English translation says morning star or Morning Star. So in English Jesus is the Morning Star, and in the Old Testament it isn't Lucifer it is the Morning Star. Both figures are prophesied in Isaiah, and both have the same name, (in addition to the other parallels I mentioned). Jesus Christ nowadays (by modern translations) is called Morning Star even if that was somehow an accident, so it still seems likely to me that a prophecy about him in the same book as a guy with the same name as him might both be about him.

The issue is one of successive translation into other languages. The language and meanings between the original texts in Hebrew and those in Greek, is starkly different.

An example of this is that through the Bible, there are at least 18 different discrete names of God in the original texts, yet most modern translation in English replace the specific names with just "God". This leads to all sorts of confusions and heresies (such as what you propose in your OP). A specific example of this is the confusing attribution in the famous 'showdown on Mount Carmel' (1 Kings 18:20-40).

I also noticed: If Christ is supposed to be God, He always was. If he was old enough to eat curds and honey before he chose the right over the wrong, this doesn't explicitly state he ever chose the right; it just says he was old enough for curds and honey before it happened. Maybe it never did.

Surely God must be atemporal. To apply temporal constraints to divinity is a futile omission. Jesus developmentally was a physical human during His incarnation. Drawing inferences about His divine aspects from other humans is sure to give a confused idea of things.

If the text is divinely inspired, this can't be human error.

You are confusing the initial texts, which were inspired, with later copies and translations.

Clearly, if someone deliberately perverts small excerpts of text, such that it is in contradiction with the rest of scripture, or adds commentary that relays a different and unsupported interpretation, that corruption must not be inspired, or even scripture.

Luicfer is Latin, an in some instances it get applied to some noble status, an has nothing to do with Satan. All the while there are other passages where it does.

Morning Star could also mean Light Bearer, or Shining One while I've heard that Serpent in it root meaning Hebrew actually meant Shining One.

As for being Life an Death incarnate, can you walk on water an have the Devil do your bidding, and come a second time after causing massive riots?

originally posted by: WalkingHolic
The same Book of Isaiah prophecies Lucifer, who's name means "morning star". Jesus Christ is called "morning star" in Revelation (22:16). Lucifer is charged with ascending God's own throne, to the heights, and Jesus Christ did this on accident or on purpose if he is not really God.

I'm pretty sure the entire doctrine of Jesus being God in the flesh, instead of a regular human being or sent by God was added after he died and churches began to form like Catholicism and Orthodox. If there are any quotes of Jesus saying he was God himself, they're vague and stretched at best.

I believe I have evidence I may be leading the ascendant life of the Antichrist

That's just you trying to make yourself feel special. The Antichrist wouldn't be a 37yr old virgin posting on ATS about being the Antichrist.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

I'm an asexual virgin born in Virginia, and I have long brown hair and a beard, so I look superficially like Jesus in the paintings.

The thing is Jesus would most likely have been brown-skinned, do you have brown skin?

Your not Jesus mate nor Lucifer if that's your concern, so there is that.

March 23, 1985 is my birthday. 23 is by (Robert Anton Wilson et al) many conspiracy theorists considered the number of the Illuminati, or of significance.

Never heard of the likes of identify theft Robert?

Because posting your full name and date of birth on internet websites is apt to draw the wrong sorts of attention.

a reply to: andy06shake

Robert Anton Wilson is a famous conspiracy theorist, not my actual name.

a reply to: WalkingHolic

Sorry, i must have read you wrong then.

You are still not Jesus or Lucifer all the same buddy.

And if you are entertaining such possibilities you should probably consider speaking to a mental health specialist as it's an indicator of delusions of grandeur and possible psychosis.

I don't tell you to hurt your feelings, but thoughts like that can snowball and run out of control if you are not careful.

Lucifer actually means "Universe"

Which is why the Vatican Observatory named their telescope Lucifer

"Universe" is a very misunderstood concept. It isn't what people think. It is the channel through which the internal self is manifested, relating to the external world, which includes the sun and stars

Uni-
Verse

The conscious versing to the world, is a direct reflection of the sun breathing light into the morning

It is the same concept as the Egyptians used with ⊙

This is also misunderstood to mean "Sun", or "Ra" a God of the sun, depicted with the sun above him, with Rays (Ra) of light pouring down on him

But it does not mean "Sun" or "Ra", it means "Mind". Which is the combination of the manifested individual "Universe", the internal Conscious (Christ) and the sensory/emotional (Jesus) bridge between them all

Certain theological successors tried to destroy and erase Ra from history, because they didn't want people to understand, or adopt such concepts, which are/were contrary to their own teachings

Egyptians understood that there is no difference between the sun in the sky, and the conscious inside your head

They are one-in-the-same

When you look up at the sun, you are looking at your own conscious

This process, and everything which exists in between is "Mind". Which is why they depicted rays pouring onto Ra

He is the sun. He is the rays

We all are

When you understand the reflection principle, you understand that both the internal and external "sides" of the equation, are the same as the fluid internal processes

Jesus Christ is emotional conscious. The circumference of the circle. The full cycle, which comes around on itself

It is a process of manifested reality

So "Jesus Christ" and "Lucifer" literally are the same personification, from different perspectives

If you are to view it from the external perspective, "falling to Earth", this is Lucifer

If you are to view it from the internal perspective, "crossing" and "Ascending into the heavens", this is Jesus Christ

Jesus and Lucifer are exactly the same "person"

Not just Jesus and Lucifer though

Samuel, Lucifer and Jesus are all the same person

The corrected translation of "Emotion(al)" for the Greek word for "Jesus" in the New Testament, is the very same as the corrected translation of "Emotional" for the Hebrew word of "Samuel" in the Old Testament (Samuel = I am your, referring to emotion)

This is why Lucifer and Samael are often linked. Internal to external possessive

So if you want to interpret the Bible accepting the names within it as being real and actual people? Then when you read about Samuel "The King Maker" in the Old Testament, you are reading about the same person named "Jesus" in the New Testament

In the Eleusinian Mysteries, we teach these principles as Demeter, Hades and Kore descending, then ascending as Persephone (Perception)

The concept of fluid with:

Demeter - Dimension (Diameter)
Kore - Core
Hades - Radius
Persephone - Perception

Christ is Circle. It has the same founding principles

The Old Testament uses Vector Equilibrium (El'ohim correctly translates to Equilibrium), within a toroidal environment

The word "Torah" literally refers to a "Torus". It is one of the first things taught to initiates of the mysteries

to andy06shake:

I never said nor thought I was Jesus or Lucifer.

In truth, I use the "Signs of being the Antichrist" as a theme to enhance my writings. I don't actually believe in the Antichrist.

Hopefully my writings will become famous enough that my name will get out (and the crowds will be nice enough not to steal my identity).

a reply to: WalkingHolic

Judging from what you have written on this site, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.