Why did God carry out modern day surgery on Adam to Create Eve?

originally posted by: glend
The bible tells us that we are more than body and mind. Without that good news would we seek a greater truth beyond our material existance.

All the myths that existed before the bible indicate that people did and still would seek a greater truth beyond our material existence even if the bible didn't exist.

There is nothing unique about it, in that regard.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: halfoldman

Baculum suggest reproduction, Suggesting that eve evolved from DNA. Which equates directly with science. Genesis 1 and 2 were written by different authors. The first account of Adam and Eve may represent our male (spiritual) and female (material) natures. Adam made in image of God is not part of our material universe so is unknown to science. Eve however, being part of our material universe, evolved over time. The serpent that could only seduce Eve is obviously our minds ego that chases material bliss. The tree likely represents our spinal chord that allows us to achieve sensations (apple etc) in the material universe....

Luke 17:21 ... the kingdom of God is within you.

This understanding tells us that evil itself is part of our material (aka female) nature. To overcome evil we have to bring forward the male aspect within,

Added... In Gospel of Thomas Jesus may have used male/female in a play of words....

"Simon Peter said to them, Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life. Jesus said, Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven".

The Twilight books gave me less cancer than reading this tripe.

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
So on the 6th day, man was made in his image. I believe that primitive hominids were changed at this point. It says, God made man in His image and after His likeness. It then says:

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Primitive hominids were changed!...say what!...where does the Bible say this…

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

How do you reconcile the idea that “Primitive hominids were changed” with the verses in Genesis 2:7…which talks about man being created directly from the dust in the ground…

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Did you even read my post where I said there were 2 creation events? The Bible separates image from likeness. The Bible says:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Let's make man in our image AFTER our likeness. The next verse says:

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This is the image only. This is when the DNA of primitive hominids were changed. In Genesis, God Created 3 times. Verse 1, 21 and 27. Each time is associated with an increase of information. In verse 21 it says:

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

This is what science calls the Cambrian explosion.

Cambrian explosion, the unparalleled emergence of organisms between 541 million and approximately 530 million years ago at the beginning of the Cambrian Period. The event was characterized by the appearance of many of the major phyla (between 20 and 35) that make up modern animal life.

www.britannica.com...

This is when the body plans for modern animals came into existence.

I'm not the only one who agrees with this. So did Alfred Russel Wallace. Who's Wallace?

He's just as important to the theory of evolution as Darwin but you never here about him because he disagreed with Darwin that evolution could occur naturally. He said "the unseen universe of spirit" had to intervene AT LEAST 3 TIMES!

Alfred Russel Wallace OM FRS (8 January 1823 – 7 November 1913) was a British naturalist, explorer, geographer, anthropologist, biologist and illustrator.[1] He is best known for independently conceiving the theory of evolution through natural selection; his paper on the subject was jointly published with some of Charles Darwin's writings in 1858.[2] This prompted Darwin to publish On the Origin of Species.

Shortly afterwards, Wallace became a spiritualist. At about the same time, he began to maintain that natural selection cannot account for mathematical, artistic, or musical genius, as well as metaphysical musings, and wit and humour. He eventually said that something in "the unseen universe of Spirit" had interceded at least three times in history. The first was the creation of life from inorganic matter. The second was the introduction of consciousness in the higher animals. And the third was the generation of the higher mental faculties in humankind. He also believed that the raison d'être of the universe was the development of the human spirit.[107]

en.wikipedia.org...

Adam was made in His likeness from the dust of the ground in the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Image came first in verse 27 then likeness with Adam in the Garden of Eden.

If you truly want to learn about these things, here's a thread called:

Were there 2 stories of Creation in Genesis?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Isn't it great how the Bible predicts what science discovers. I wrote about it in these threads.

What's the origin of information in the genome?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Bible predicts what science discovers
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Praise God!

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
Did you even read my post where I said there were 2 creation events? The Bible separates image from likeness. The Bible says:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Going with a literal interpretation…don’t you think it’s more likely that the verses in Genesis 1:27 are giving a general overview of what’s about to take place in Genesis 2, in regards to the creation of male and female; with Genesis 2 then expounding further on how that creation of Adam/male and Eve/female takes place…

Because that’s how I used to view it myself, back when I had a literal interpretation of it…

2 creation events is problematic imo because Genesis 2:7 states man is formed from out of the dust and given a Soul ect ...You can’t bring something out of the ground, that’s already a live Primitive hominid…

- JC

originally posted by: neoholographic
Isn't it great how the Bible predicts what science discovers.

That isn't really accurate.

The stories that make up the torah, those attributed to moses, didn't exist until around the 13th century bc, which is supposed to be around the time moses lived.

Meanwhile, the egyptian scroll the Edwin Smith Papyrus dated 16th century bc and thought to be a copy of a text as old as 30th-25th century bc describes surgical procedures and even the use of sutures to close a wound.

So, if we take the biblical story of moses at its word, and it not being something changed when the stories were finally written down, 1st or 2nd century ad, having grown up with the Egyptian royal family, he could very well have had heard of some surgical procedures.

Either way, this isn't proof that the story is predicting something that science was going to discover because it already existed when the stories were created.

a reply to: Joecroft

You said:

Going with a literal interpretation

I just gave you a literal interpretation. You're the one saying Genesis 1:27 is an overview. The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible LITERALLY separates the image from the likeness as I showed you.

When talking about Adam, it only mentions likeness:

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

You're the one that has to go outside of a literal interpretation to talk about some overview.

The hominids Created in the image already existed and evolved from the Cambrian explosion in verse 21.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The Bible never said man(primitive hominids) didn't exist before He Created man in His image. It says Let us make man in our image. The Bible says:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Man already existed as primitive hominids and they were made into the image of God. This is in line with evolution and the fossil record when all of these more advanced hominids evolved.

The Bible tells you Adam was different. He became a living soul and lived in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden was separate from the rest of the earth.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Adam(likeness) lived in the Garden of Eden. The Bible shows you this with Cain. Cain was scared to leave the Garden of Eden and mingle with other people who were the (image).

Genesis 2:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Genesis 2:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Do you think Cain was driven off of the earth? Of course not, he was calling the Garden of Eden the face of the earth where the presence of God still dwelled.

So this could have been some type of portal or gateway to other realms. The Bible says:

Genesis 3:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

A couple of important points here.

First, God sent Adam out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from whence he was made. This verse tells you that Adam was made from the dust of the ground on earth but put into the Garden of Eden.

Secondly, like Cain, he was to the east of the Garden of Eden and God put Cherubims there to block the way to the Garden. Adam may have still known of portals or gateways to get to the Garden of Eden.

This is a literal interpretation of Genesis. You have to add to Genesis by saying it was just an overview. The Bible doesn't say it's an overview, it clearly separates the image from the likeness. It clearly separates the Garden of Eden from the rest of the earth.

The Bible is the Word of God!

originally posted by: neoholographic
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

...it clearly separates the image from the likeness.

It clearly doesn't in that bit.

Also, genesis 2:5 says:

Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up...

So they basically recap genesis 1 with more detail about adam and eve. At the end of genesis 1 everything on earth had been created and genesis 2 starts back before there were even plants.

Also, genesis 2:8 says the garden was on earth, in the east.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: neoholographic
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

...it clearly separates the image from the likeness.

It clearly doesn't in that bit.

Also, genesis 2:5 says:

Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up...

So they basically recap genesis 1 with more detail about adam and eve. At the end of genesis 1 everything on earth had been created and genesis 2 starts back before there were even plants.

Also, genesis 2:8 says the garden was on earth, in the east.

Again, nothing you said refutes anything. You need to worry about answering questions about this mythical peer you believe in that created the universe. I asked you:

Did this peer also create this afterlife you believe in? Who created the souls that enter into this simulation you speak of? You need to answer questions before you ridicule others.

Secondly, it does. It tells you in the very next verse that man was Created in the image. It says nothing about likeness.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

When talking about Adam it says:

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The Bible says:

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The Heavens and the earth were finished. It now switches to the FIELD.

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

What does field mean in Hebrew?

field, land cultivated field of home of wild beasts plain (opposed to mountain) land (opposed to sea)

The field isn't the whole earth. In the east of this field was the Garden of Eden.

Again, you guys claim the Bible is a myth but you don't want to take it literally. You want to make up your own interpretations that have nothing to do with scripture. The Bible is the Word of God and you have to look at every word that's included or omitted.

The Bible clearly separates image and likeness and the Garden of Eden from the rest of the earth.

It's no surprise you just want to make it up as you go. You talked about some disembodies souls that enter a simulation but you won't answer as to where these souls come from. Did these souls create the simulation? How did some peer create a simulation that these floating souls enter in to? Does your peer control the afterlife you believe in?

I answer questions and what I say is backed up by scripture and outside sources. You never answer questions about some disembodied souls created by some peer or maybe they weren't. You ridicule the Bible and call it a myth while not answering questions.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Again, nothing you said refutes anything.

Actually, it does, it shows the mental gymnastics you have to go through to say image and likeness are separated when they are right there in the same sentence. It doesn't say lets make some men in our image and some in our likeness it says one man, in the image and the likness.

You need to worry about answering questions about this mythical peer you believe in that created the universe. I asked you:

No, I don't and I already told you why I have not and will not answer.

a reply to: daskakik

Again, you are clearly being obtuse because you can't refute what's being said and that's obvious. You just make up things about floating souls and simulations but you can't change scripture.

It says:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

In the next verse God Created man:

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Again, God Created 3 times in Genesis. Verses 1, 21 and 27. In verse 27 it's image only. When talking about Adam, it's likeness only:

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

So again, you can be obtuse all you want but it doesn't change scripture.

It's no suprise though because you won't answer questions about this mythical peer that controls this afterlife you believe in.

a reply to: neoholographic
You just posted the bit where image and likeness is used to describe one man in the same sentence.

That isn't being obtuse, it is right there.

a reply to: daskakik

Of course it's being obtuse but you have no argument left so what else are you going to do? You believe in some floating souls created by some peer but you won't say how this peer created the universe.

Again, you can't change scripture.

Verse 26 is God saying what they should do:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

It says LET THEM HAVE.

In the next verse it was executed by an act of Creation which occurs 3 times in Genesis 1, 21 and 27.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Again, this is obvious and of course your being obtuse because you have no argument. When a person has no argument they usually go and get a better one. You just keep saying the same things in the face of the obvious as though things will change if you keep saying them.

You need to go figure out some answers to these questions. I answer questions, you don't. I will ask again.

It's no surprise you just want to make it up as you go. You talked about some disembodies souls that enter a simulation but you won't answer as to where these souls come from. Did these souls create the simulation? How did some peer create a simulation that these floating souls enter in to? Does your peer control the afterlife you believe in?

originally posted by: neoholographic
Of course it's being obtuse but you have no argument left so what else are you going to do? You believe in some floating souls created by some peer but you won't say how this peer created the universe.

You keep saying I believe this after I already told you it is just an idea/possibility. I have no idea if it is true, so I can't answer your questions. What part of that is giving you such a hard time?

Again, you can't change scripture.

That is my point, scripture has a sentence with image and likeness describing a single creation. They are not separate no matter how hard you try to convince yourself of it. Regardless of what other verses say, it doesn't change what that one verse says and one of them is in the same paragraph to boot, actually right after the one where they are mentioned together.

a reply to: daskakik

Again, you're just being obtuse and I'm done answering your questions. The only act of Creation was the image in verse 27.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Show us where verse 26 was an act of Creation of image and likeness. It says image after our likeness which came with Adam.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Likeness only.

So I will just respond with questions from now on for you. A debate is 2 way. I'm not going to keep answering your obtuse assertions that make no sense when you can't answer basic questions.

There's a reason you don't start any threads. You don't want to answer any questions. You just want to ridicule and look pretty ignorant in the process. You said:

The idea is that we are souls that also exist outside time and space who incarnated in this simulation and when we are out of the simulation, we are no better or worse than the "peer" that designed the simulation.

Again I ask:

It's no surprise you just want to make it up as you go. You talked about some disembodies souls that enter a simulation but you won't answer as to where these souls come from. Did these souls create the simulation? How did some peer create a simulation that these floating souls enter in to? Does your peer control the afterlife you believe in?

A debate is 2 way.

a reply to: neoholographic
Do you even paragraph?

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [g]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that [h]moves on the earth.”

It is the same paragraph with god saying "let's do this" in one sentence and "doing what he had just said he was going to do" in the next. You do know that is how paragraphs work, don't you, a group of sentences relating to the same topic?

I already said why I am not going to answer your questions. Obviously you can't grasp the reason.

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

I already said why I am not going to answer your questions. Obviously you can't grasp the reason.

Of course you're not because you can't. That's why you don't start any threads. You just want to be obtuse. The Bible says Let us and then an act of Creation occurs.

If I say Let us go to the store or :Let us go to the park we haven't went to the park or the store yet. In the very next verse it's the execution of image only.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Then with Adam it's the execution of likeness:

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

But you know this, you're just acting ignorant for the sake of being obtuse. This is why you don't start threads. You just want to ridicule without answering questions but that's fine with me, you're the one looking ignorant.

A debate is 2 way. You said:

The idea is that we are souls that also exist outside time and space who incarnated in this simulation and when we are out of the simulation, we are no better or worse than the "peer" that designed the simulation.

Again I ask:

It's no surprise you just want to make it up as you go. You talked about some disembodies souls that enter a simulation but you won't answer as to where these souls come from. Did these souls create the simulation? How did some peer create a simulation that these floating souls enter in to? Does your peer control the afterlife you believe in?

originally posted by: neoholographic
Of course you're not because you can't.

That is what I said.

The peer isn't an actual being I have met but a possibility that I mentioned in this thread Question for those who are willing to ponder the possibility that we and the universe were created where I said that even if this universe was created it doesn't necessarily mean it was created by the god of the bible and that it could be a peer.

ETA:

If I say Let us go to the store or :Let us go to the park we haven't went to the park or the store yet. In the very next verse it's the execution of image only.

Genesis 1:26 doesn't use "or" it says, "in our image, in our likeness" implying the creation would be both.

So, going with your example, if you say: "Let's go to the store and the park. So we ended up at the park." one would naturally assume you went to the store before going to the park, since it is what you just said you were going to do.

a reply to: daskakik

You said:

The idea is that we are souls that also exist outside time and space who incarnated in this simulation and when we are out of the simulation, we are no better or worse than the "peer" that designed the simulation.

You also said you believe in an afterlife so I asked:

It's no surprise you just want to make it up as you go. You talked about some disembodies souls that enter a simulation but you won't answer as to where these souls come from. Did these souls create the simulation? How did some peer create a simulation that these floating souls enter in to? Does your peer control the afterlife you believe in?

This is my point, you're being obtuse and ignorant by asking the same questions but you don't want to answer any questions. You don't want a debate, you just want to ridicule and even when you're being obviously ignorant, you just keep asking the same questions.

That's not a debate that's just being obtuse.

A debate is 2 way.

How can a peer create a simulation? A peer means equal. How can a peer from a type 0 civilization create a simulated universe? How can this peer have a scaled up quantum computer?

So as long as your being obtuse and you keep asking the same thing that anyone reading this thread knows the answer by now, I'm going to keep asking you the same questions.

Obtuseness can work both ways.

Sadly, you don't want a debate, you just want to ridicule without any accountability for the things you say. I will answer every question to anyone that has them but not to you if you're going to act ignorant for the sake of argument.

a reply to: neoholographic
Sorry but no, I have experienced OBEs which leads me to believe there is an afterlife.

I don't know what it is really like, so I can't answer your questions.

I did also say that a possibility might be something like simulation theory. So, if we take an idea like the one in the movie "The Matrix" where you have an operator that plugs you in and watches over you, one can say they are godlike but when you exit the matrix they are your peer, not some all powerful deity. And, again that is just an idea/possibility.