Alleged killings in Bucha Make No Sense NY Times Reporter Mentions Far Right!

originally posted by: svetlana84
a reply to: chr0naut

conveniently leaving the part out that Ukraine was fighting 6 years to get these terroritores back, while killing civilians in the process.

There would be no need to have any conflict except that the Russians annexed part of their country in the first place. Even in the Crimea, Russian speakers were in the minority. There was no reason for the annexation of Crimea except for Russia attempting to squash the new independent states that arose after the fall of the USSR.

Lets not forget all the conflicts that arose at the dissolution of the USSR as several regions sought their own independence, and the Russian military reaction to them.

Like the ethnic cleansing in 1992 of the East Prigorodny conflict and the continued Russian attacks on independent South Ossetia, the ongoing conflicts against the majority Muslim people in Chechnya. Not to mention the use of the Russian military against its own people in the 1992 Constitutional crisis.

Russia is expansionist, and militarily belligerent, and there are a significant number of 'old school' Soviets like Putin currently in power trying to re-establish the USSR bloc. Not only that, these people seem happy to not use peaceful political process, but to use the military, secret services, and assassination to solve their own internal political issues, even going as far as to send assassins into foreign sovereign states (like it did recently in the United Kingdom).

Russia, in the guise of the USSR, was the number one national enemy to the USA and its allies for at least 80 years. They still have first-strike nuclear capability to overwhelm the USA and NATO nations. They would loose some of that if Ukraine joined NATO, which is what has prompted the current Russian attack on them. Russia are trying to defeat Ukrainian independence as a state because the Ukraine is making overtures to join Europe and leave the influence of the former Soviets.

It is interesting the number of far-right supporters of Russia that have arisen in the US recently. Whether they realize it, or not, they are traitors to their own country, which will loose out big time if Russia reestablishes the power of the previous Soviet bloc, pushes back NATO, and continues developing its advanced hypersonic nuclear offensive first-strike capability.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: vNex92
It's quite a stretch of the imagination to think the tiny army of Ukraine is really able to be so successful on the battlefield, even with the latest arms and munitions, when so vastly outnumbered.

We have to believe Russian fighters are untrained children with little to no arms and inferior equipment, or the Ukrainian army isn't fighting this war- no matter how many private citizens are supposedly fighting alongside them.

Well a lot of the russian troops ARE untrained or minimally trained, a large portion of them are apparently conscripts.....

And it doesnt take a whole lot of people to wipe out convoys that are mired in the mud or otherwise restricted in their ability to repell them........

im not saying i agree with the reports coming out of Ukraine, but I dont trust whats coming out from Russia or the Ukraine

I don't trust any media reporting, but things just don't add up.
Putin isn't considered a stupid man- like some world leaders- cough* cough*. I would think when deciding to go to war with another country you'd have a plan of action- not just throw out some poorly trained conscripts and millions of dollars in equipment. When your guys are loosing, isn't it normal to send in more troops? It's hard to believe Putin is that incompetent, so we're told he has cancer or has gone insane. I suppose it's possible, but doesn't seem likely to me.

Two countries are blowing smoke up our wazoos, and I think they're smoking the same brand.

originally posted by: chr0naut

. Even in the Crimea, Russian speakers were in the minority.

Do you guys just make up your facts? I don't understand. A few days ago there was a similar claim about Donbass.

A survey in May 2013, asked respondents what language they spoke at home:[28]

82% Russian 10% Crimean Tatar 3% Russian and Ukrainian equally 3% Russian and another language equally 2% Ukrainian

en.m.wikipedia.org...#:~:text=82%25%20Russian,Russian%20and%20another%20language%20equally

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

You forgot to add the remained of the info -

Note that the proportion of people in the survey who gave their ethnicity as Ukrainian was 20%, Crimean Tatar 15%.[28]

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

You forgot to add the remained of the info -

Note that the proportion of people in the survey who gave their ethnicity as Ukrainian was 20%, Crimean Tatar 15%.[28]

OK what's your point? Ukrainians make up 20% of the population/survey

Even going back to 2001 Russian population was still majority.

: Russians:1.45 million (60.4%), Ukrainians: 577,000 (24.0%)

2014 census is even higher Russia 1 492 078 population (67.9%)

Ukraine 344 515 population (15.7%)

I listed the 2001 in the last post for the people that say "bUt RuSsIaN PrOpAgAnDa"
:

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

That Crimea belongs to Ukraine and has since the early 1950's

Also satellite images show Russia is lying about Bucha.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

Check your PMs.

A detailed timeline undermining Russia's claim that the massacre in Bucha was a Ukrainian hoax

Images of dead bodies littering the streets in Bucha, Ukraine, have appalled the world.

Multiple witnesses say they were the victims of Russian soldiers who beat, tortured, and executed scores of civilians when they took of control of the town in early March.

But Russia has denied the accusations, with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov describing them as "fake."

Joe Ondrak, lead investigator at Logically AI, told Insider that Russia was operating a "two pronged" disinformation strategy, seeking to portray the Bucha killings as a hoax, while also blaming Ukraine for the deaths there.

"On pro-Russian Telegram channels discussions abound about how the mainstream media will not report on the atrocities committed by the neo-Nazis and the Ukrainian forces against civilians in Bucha," he said.

The reality is that Western media has extensively reported the atrocities, but attributed responsibility to Russia, based on evidence from the scenes.

At the heart of the defense made by the Russian foreign ministry in a Telegram post is the claim that its forces withdrew from the town on March 30. It argues that this date means they cannot have killed the civilians.

They said that no evidence came to light before April 4, when media organisations entered Bucha. They said the bodies were not in a state of decomposition consistent with their being killed during the Russian occupation.

Mounting evidence is emerging to undermine Russia's argument, said Givi Gigitashvili, who analyses Russian disinformation for the Atlantic Council.

He told Insider that Russia's propaganda about Bucha fits to a clear pattern that it has used before.

"When Kremlin does not like facts, it tries to twist them," he said, noting that the claims tend to appeal to a Western conspiracist audience.

click link for article...