A breakdown of the situation in Ukraine

A couple of weeks ago I asked for help understanding the situation in Ukraine because I didn't really know much about their history. Unfortunately that thread didn't provide many answers so I had to go and do my own research. I haven't written anything about Ukraine since that thread because I wanted to get a solid understanding of the situation before contributing my opinion to the subject. It's now very clear to me this whole situation has been misrepresented and it's much more complex than I first imagined.

Before I go any further, let me just say this; if I had a gun to my head and was forced to choose between nuking Russia or Ukraine, I would probably choose to save Ukraine because I know people living there who I care about and I don't really know many people in Russia. I know that's a pretty crappy reason, and I don't have anything against Russians, I'm just trying to highlight the fact I'm an outsider observer to this situation and I'm trying to remain as neutral as possible. I hate war to the core of my being and always have.

That's why I feel it's important to understand this isn't a simple black and white situation where Russia is the bad guys like out of a movie. As much as we might not like to admit it, there is a sort of Russia-phobia which was created by things such as the 4 year long Russia election interference paranoia while Trump was in office. Now it seems the entire world has decided to cancel Russia, with seemingly no compassion for how this effects normal Russians who want nothing to do with war, for example this guy who doesn't like Putin very much:



Will he even be allowed to exist on YouTube now that Russia is creating their own internet cut off from the rest of the world? It's easy to call Russia isolationist, but it seems to me the rest of the world isolated Russia first. Like I've said before, I do think Putin is a bit of a dictator, but I don't think he's the type of person who just needlessly starts a war which he knows will cause the rest of the world to isolate Russia. And that's the biggest misconception about this whole thing, that Russia is pointlessly invading Ukraine without mercy.

To properly understand what is happening in Ukraine in present times I would highly recommend watching the 2016 documentary called Ukraine on Fire because it does a great job explaining the volatile political history of Ukraine and it also contains interviews with Putin which provide great insight into how Putin views Ukraine. The most important lesson I got from the doco was that the far-right nationalists have a lot of power within Ukraine and they have gotten a lot of that power through violence and bloodshed.

It isn't just some minor talking point, political parties like Right Sector have people in government positions and some of those people are white supremacists. It's important to understand the mind set and the political ideology of these groups in order to understand the current conflict in Ukraine. Groups like Right Sector are highly nationalistic, meaning they value the independence of Ukraine and they are very patriotic about their country, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Personally I think Ukraine has every right to independence.

However, Right Sector isn't just a political party, Wikipedia describes it as "far-right Ukrainian nationalist political party and paramilitary movement". These groups often take their political views to extremes, which breeds a lot of extremism including racism against Russians and also non-white people. These nationalist groups tend to be anti-Russia and pro-EU because they view Russia as a threat to their independence as a country. It's important to remember that Ukraine was once a part of Russia, or what was once called the Soviet Union.

When you listen to Putin talk about Ukraine and you look at how Russia has supported Ukraine in the past during their times of need, it becomes very clear that Putin does care about Ukrainian people. At the very least he cares about the pro-Russian portion of Ukraine because they are connected to Russia by a deep history. As you move further East in Ukraine the population tends to become more pro-Russia and less pro-EU, which makes sense considering the East is closer to Russia. That's a big part of why Putin wants the East of Ukraine.

The more critical reason why Putin wants to take the East of Ukraine is due to the geographical military advantage it provides. It provides a sort of buffer zone between Russia and the encroachment of western and NATO forces closer to the Russian borders. The below video provides a fairly unbiased analysis of why this buffer zone is so crucial to Russia. Some might say the below video is biased against Russia, but I'm sure some people also say Ukraine on Fire is pro-Russian propaganda, so I share them both to create a balanced perspective.



Putin has consistently warned he would be forced to take action if Ukraine became a platform for other military powers to threaten the security of Russia. Obviously I don't think that can justify a full-scale invasion into Ukraine because they are an independent nation, and that's the other crucial thing we need to understand about this situation. It isn't a "full-scale invasion" as the media has portrayed it, we have to remember Putin doesn't take joy in harming Ukrainians, he's not like some evil villain, he's not even a warmonger.

That's why this is a slow and methodical push into Ukraine while trying to minimize the loss of life. The media is portraying the situation as if Russia is weak or Russia is losing because they haven't obliterated Ukraine, but they don't really want to hurt Ukrainians because they are basically fighting against their brothers who share much of the same heritage as them. Despite the picture the MSM is trying to paint, Russia is really only hitting hard against the extremist paramilitary groups while trying not to involve every day citizens.

Putin doesn't want to destroy Ukraine, once this is over he wants Ukraine or at least east Ukraine to be controlled by pro-Russian forces. I recently watched a video where a guy living in Ukraine explains why Russia wants to capture Ukraine intact without harming too many citizens. I've seen other videos where he is walking around in Ukraine so I am fairly certain he lives in Ukraine and isn't some sort of Russian agent, although he is clearly pro-Russian and seems to think Russia is liberating some parts of Ukraine from corruption.

I don't know if I would go so far as saying that Russia is liberating Ukraine, but we have certainly been presented a very skewed version of events in the western world. They are exploiting our emotions and our outrage just like they always do, because most people like to get angry before they really have an understanding of a subject. It might take a few hours to watch all the content I have presented here but it's necessary in order to properly understand the situation in Ukraine and have an informed opinion on the subject.

To finish up, here's just a fraction of the lies we've been fed so far:

- We were told Ukrainian soldiers on Snake Island were killed by a Russian warship but they actually surrendered and are still alive source

- It's now admitted that the "Ghost of Kyiv" and Snake Island stories were made up to boost Ukrainian military morale source

- They said a Russian tank ran over a Ukrainian civilian in a car but it was a Strela-10 air defense vehicle probably controlled by Ukrainians source

- At least 2 of the viral videos claiming to show Russia bombing non-military buildings in Ukraine are not true source source

- Video of Ukrainian pilot shooting down Russian jet was actually screen recording from Arma 3 video game source

- Putin didn't threaten nuclear war or even mention nuclear war in the speech where everyone claimed he did source

- Zelensky lied about Russian forced attacking a nuclear plant and causing a meltdown to drum up western support source

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Putin also gave Ukrainian citizens 10,000 ruble and time to evacuate the cities and set up shelter and food for them in Russia, before he intensified the attack.

The sanctions actually seem good. The US could use most of them. They had McDonald’s close their businesses, credit card companies took away their services, the media was shut down, internet pornography was shutdown, and they now have the cheapest gas prices in the world. So their punishment is no fake news, healthier lifestyle, no crippling credit card debt, and a better family environment. Sounds awful. 😂

That's why this is a slow and methodical push into Ukraine while trying to minimize the loss of life.


That's why this is only being marketed by using the name "war".

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Before I go any further, let me just say this; if I had a gun to my head and was forced to choose between nuking Russia or Ukraine, I would probably choose to save Ukraine because I know people living there who I care about and I don't really know many people in Russia. I know that's a pretty crappy reason

One question before we go on: You'd nuke a whole country rather than take a bullet yourself? Seriously!!

This is the MSM programming you need to wash from your brain.

It’s difficult to come to a sound conclusion when much of the information presented to us is purposefully meant to confuse and confound. Best advise is to arm yourself with as much diverse information as possible. Here is a clip about some of Vladislav Surkov’s political philosophy (he was Deputy Prime Minister, then Putin’s personal advisor until 2020). This video is a short segment from the documentary HyperNormalisation (which is quite long, but interesting).



Since it relates to Ukraine, here is a discussion regarding the leaked Surkov emails. The Kremlin denies that the documents originated from Surkov (claiming he did not use email).

a reply to: Disinformation Man

"For them reality was just something that could be manipulated and shaped into anything you wanted it to be"... that's rich coming from the BBC.

neither the Ukrainians nor their government are saints, sure

but do they deserve to be conquered by Putin? would they be better off?

Putin is a child of the USSR, and the USSR treated Ukraine abominably.

imagine a Native American community being taken over by the federal government.

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Putin also gave Ukrainian citizens 10,000 ruble

Worth $75.00 and falling fast.

I've been gone for a few years and suddenly this sub has gotten all woke, lol? It's like I'm reading reddit, people trying to cancel Ukraine for being too nationalist and phobic. You're falling for the same propaganda that makes Russians out to be racist, only now it's aimed at Ukrainians. What's gonna be next, Zelensky is refusing to recruit trans people to fight?

That youtuber said he is against the war btw, but he had to delete his video where he said it. Because it is now illegal in Russia to criticize anything the military does or is ordered to do. Imagine Biden sending troops back into Afghanistan, except now you go to jail if you say it's stupid or wrong.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
That's why this is a slow and methodical push into Ukraine while trying to minimize the loss of life. The media is portraying the situation as if Russia is weak or Russia is losing because they haven't obliterated Ukraine, but they don't really want to hurt Ukrainians because they are basically fighting against their brothers who share much of the same heritage as them. Despite the picture the MSM is trying to paint, Russia is really only hitting hard against the extremist paramilitary groups while trying not to involve every day citizens.

Well Russia turned out to be weaker than most people predicted. Apparently there's been more corruption than expected in the army, similar phenomenon to the "ghost soldiers" in Afghanistan as well I think. But they aren't loosing in a military sense, they're just kind of stalling for now.

But I think you're right that they're trying to minimize civilian kills and buildings destroyed. Ukraine is part of the imperial core or so-called Russian world, so they can't cause as much destruction as they could in other places, unless they have no other choice. This is one reason why they haven't been bombing so much yet. But, you know, just because someone is your brother doesn't mean they can't become your enemy. Brothers can kill each other.

And that's a lie, when you say Russia is only hitting hard against extremist paramilitary groups. Obviously they're fighting the whole Ukrainian army. And in some places they have been shelling civilians trying to evacuate, and also they've been trying to force civilians to evacuate to Russia where they'll be hostages basically.

Ultimately Putin is bad because he's caused brother to fight against brother, he's made a new civil war in the people he's supposed to lead and protect. And he's made Ukrainians super eager to join EU and NATO, lol.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Sadly much as the Russians are victims as the normal citizens of the Ukraine are the victims, both sides losing to much lives.

In the meanwhile this whole country is going to be ripped apart by multiple factions both Ukrainian and Russian

And a massive humanitarian crisis that floods Europe again and again as every war they all flee to Europe and we take them in as every country should do for innocent civilizations in a emergency of war.

Shamefully also criminals will benefit from this , so we have to clean up the mess afterwards I guess

It's good to show both sides of the coin so we can filter through the BS that both sides throw at us

a reply to: mcsnacks77

Shutting down porn and McDonald's is definitely good. But I think they're making laws that allow pirating now, so people will still get their porn.

a reply to: Cutepants

Starbucks cancelled russia now too.

Is this what causes Russians to revolt?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

I would guess most Russians drink tea. But whatever they call their Yuppies there will be put out.

Cheers

a reply to: Cutepants

I've been gone for a few years and suddenly this sub has gotten all woke, lol? It's like I'm reading reddit, people trying to cancel Ukraine for being too nationalist and phobic. You're falling for the same propaganda that makes Russians out to be racist, only now it's aimed at Ukrainians. What's gonna be next, Zelensky is refusing to recruit trans people to fight?

Calling me woke, that's pretty funny, first time that's ever happened. It's also why this situation is so ironic, suddenly the media is caught in a situation where they are trying to make far-right nationalists look like heroes, after they spent so many years decrying that exact type of political mentality. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with some degree of nationalism, but it clearly becomes a problem when actual neo-nazis gain political power.

But I never said everyone fighting against Russia in Ukraine is a racist, I didn't even say the majority of them were. Even if Ukraine does have a highly corrupt government, which it seems they do, I don't think Russia has a right to come in and overthrow their government. But I don't think Putin is really trying to do that, he's only recognizing the independence of those eastern parts of Ukraine which desire to break away from Ukraine and asked Russia for help.

I also doubt Zelensky has anything against trans people considering that dance video he appeared in... I don't know if Zelensky is a racist, I never said he was, I honestly don't know that much about him, but I know he's an actor who once played the president of Ukraine in a popular television show and then become the actual president of Ukraine. I also know he has already lied multiple times during this conflict and is handing out weaponry to civilians.

That youtuber said he is against the war btw, but he had to delete his video where he said it. Because it is now illegal in Russia to criticize anything the military does or is ordered to do. Imagine Biden sending troops back into Afghanistan, except now you go to jail if you say it's stupid or wrong.

Like I said he's not a fan of the war or of Putin, yet he's a victim of being de-platformed by the entire world, and it just doesn't seem right to me. Russia is at least trying to avoid civilian casualties, but what about all the regular Russians who will suffer economic destruction? How can they transact without VISA or MasterCard or PayPal? What if their livelihood relies on those things like that guy? Obviously I don't agree with that type of censorship, but with the massive amount of anti-Russian propaganda it's hard to blame them for trying to control the narrative within Russia. I also seem to recall the western world censoring any discussion about lab leak theories or election fraud... so until we can start respecting free speech we don't have any right to criticize Russia.

a reply to: 0bserver1

Agree with everything you said.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Thanks. A very sober and objective view of the situation. Especially pleased with your desire to understand the underlying causes of what is happening.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Could be worse, if it was NATO or the US vying for power, then Ukraine would have either been bombed into submission or covertly overthrown by intelligence agencies and bribes to politicians, all the while taking the high moral ground. Oh wait.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Thank you Mr. Putin lol jk.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Good thread. I expected him to take those eastern regions; what has surprised me is the overall invasion of Ukraine. It seems something has really pissed him off and has decided to go big.

The documentary is really good and also shows US involvement in protests and change of Government/President to pro- west/ US.

What I think is a major issue in this is the pipelines from Russia through Ukraine and they are state owned. The company names are Gazprom(Russia) and Naftogaz (Ukraine). Well apparently “fees/ charges” are placed on the gas along the pipelines.
Burisma seems to be a holding company for Naftogaz(Ukraine). AND there we have a huge Joe And Hunter Biden connection to the current war. I am still doing research to try and make things more clear, but this is where I have gotten so far. I am thinking that Biden and Team, and also a whole lot of other people are using Ukraine as a money tree. Nord stream 2 would go directly from Russia to Germany- which would bypass Ukraine.
Idk- just what I’m seeing.