Is Which Side To Pick Not Becoming More Abundantly Clear?

a reply to: AaarghZombies

How many ethic Russians applied for asylum with Russia?

So many ways to handle the situation without invading the Ukrainian.

Who’s bullying who now…. With threats of nuclear action?

If you want to talk persecution.

There will be dad and mum': Putin rules out Russia legalizing gay marriage

www.nbcnews.com...

Some things never change.

America absolves itself of all responsibility and screams 'Nothing to do with us' whilst making obscene amounts of money out of others pain and suffering.

That is of course until someone turns on them and forces their hand then everyone is expected aid and assist them on their righteous course.

Yet again; History repeating itself.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: ketsuko

If Putin was interested in doing real harm to the Ukrainian people, he would have turned off the electricity and gas. It's pretty darned cold over there right now.

If he wanted to, he could have launched artillery barrages on Ukrainian urban areas and caused massive casualties and stampeded the population.

But ... he didn't.

The difference is the old regime and the new are run by different people. I'm kind'a leaning towards believing Putin when he says he invaded to rid the country of Nazis and corrupt Globalist mofos.

So if Russia says the u.s. is full of nazis and globalists, is he right to invade us then?

Are claims of globalists all one needs to justify invading another nation?

Just because Putin isn't deliberately targeting civilians, doesn't make invasion justified?

Plus plenty of civilians are getting killed in the crossfire.

It's like justifying drone strikes that kill many civilians just because it hit one intended target that was considered a terrorist.

You anti-globalists are hypocritics. You critize corrupt globalists but at the same time prop up russia and china which are even more corrupt and oppressed.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

The more posts I read from both sides, I can't help but see a pattern.

Reading your post brings up memories of posts just a few months ago encouraging Americans to split up.

Posts talking about Americans being so divided on their political views, and the division of those based on their ethnicity, where so great that some where ready to have a civil war over it. A civil war was the only answer, was the belief of many just a few months ago. Many were ready to fertilize the tree of liberty.

So while they are sowing the seeds to have us kill each other, they are getting the ball rolling by getting the Russians and Ukrainians, to show us how it is done?

I can't believe a word that is coming from the media on either side. The people are going to have to make a choice. Band together and fight the real enemy, or follow their corrupt, evil leaders into a Hell built from their own sweat, blood, tears, and souls.

Russi a Erects Financial Defenses to Shield Against Sanctions

The U.S. and Europe (i.e. International Banking Cartel) are tightening every single valve and choke point they can get their hands on. WITH ONE EXCEPTION.

The steps taken so far on Monday represent the most forceful measures by Russia after the latest round of sanctions, with the U.S. and the European Union agreeing to block access to much of the $640 billion the country’s central bank has built up as a buffer to protect the economy.

But the U.S. and Europe remain reluctant for now to sanction Russian energy, seeking to insulate the world economy from a greater shock. Germany’s Economy Ministry said on Monday that purchases of Russian gas remain possible using SWIFT even after the latest curbs.

In the absence of even wider trade sanctions that could ensnare Russian energy shipments, the policies implemented so far may be enough to stabilize markets, according to Renaissance Capital. The ruble recouped some losses and was trading just over 14% weaker at around 95 per dollar as of 3:20 p.m. in Moscow. It was briefly down more than 30% earlier in the day.

Hmmm. Not touching Russia's energy exports you say? Is that not their primary export revenue stream.

What the Bloomberg article didn't mention is that Europe gets 40% of its natural gas from Russia

Oh. Well now.

"Putin you naughty NAUGHTY BOY! We're taking away all your toys EXCEPT your biggest and most precious one, because although we hate your guts and /some/ are calling for a violent coup d'etat (you being deposed violently), we can't have your biggest/most precious toy on the shelf, not in the dead of winter in the Northern hemisphere.

Note the smarmy and tone deaf writing in the Fortune article above about treating this as just a neat way to force GREEN ENERGY on Europe. Again what that doesn't say is that the MAJORITY of solar panel manufacturing and the second largest exporter of rechargeable batteries == China.

So, to become "More gReEN" means you trade in your energy dependency from Russia with China. Oh great. That's reassuring.

There is no condoning invasion of another sovereign nation. Period.

With that out of the way, we can take a peek at all of the geopolitical wrangling that preceded this conflict and most reasonable people agree that tying to shoehorn Ukraine into NATO made no sense, and has been seen as a central driver to the skirmishes and small scale fighting between Ukraine and Russia that had been ongoing for over a decade.

So in reality, this invasion is an escalation of hostilities that have been going on for over a decade,i.e.

Putin is not dumb, although he seems very paranoid.

He knows who is arming Ukraine (i.e. West a.k.a. International Banking Cartel)

He seems to view Ukraine's entry to NATO as an existential threat to his country. We all might not view it that way but that is his perspective, as paranoid as it may be.

After many of the revelations about how much wealth and influence and dirty money flows through Ukraine, one can start to get the picture of why certain folks in the International Banking Cartel want security guarantees for their "investments" in Ukraine. And in pushing that, they have awakened and poked The Bear.

I wish the fighting in Ukraine would end tomorrow, or better yet right now. It seems right now that in fact, most of the damage and casualties are being incurred on the Russian line, which makes this even more of a puzzling move.

But, when you view from Putin's perspective, in the context of all that is written above, an observer might see this as forcing the NATO and International Banking Cartel off his border. I can agree with his principle but not his current methodology.

It's rather funny and odd that the I.B.C. won't go after his energy exports, because they know that such a move, in winter, could be a very unpopular, if not dangerous situation, for the I.B.C.'s own citizens. I hesitate to call it a "nuclear option" to avoid confusion with real live nuclear bombs, but....what if Putin unilaterally decides to shut off the gas flow through the pipelines? That would be a devastating blow to Russia's economy, even worse than choking off their C.B. and SWIFT payment processing. But in doing, such a self immolation could really shine the light on the I.B.C., the globalists and their machinations in Ukraine and elsewhere. This may be just a phyric victory for Putin so that's probably why the game continues. I suspect that Putin has a scenario where the gas lines get shut off, only Putin and God know that trigger point.

I am not really choosing sides, but I think the propaganda we get "in the West" is stepped and drenched in the taint of the I.B.C. The entire Ukraine situation can almost be seen as a gambit to manipulate Russia on the international stage. As a U.S. citizen, I want no mutual defense pacts with anyone else save Canada and the U.k. Certainly don't want one with Ukraine. And I'm sick and tired of our foreign policy and intellectual bandwidth being occupied by the I.B..C. We have much MUCH bigger issues to deal with (five letter word beginning with C) for our own national benefit, but the I.B.C. doesn't want the U.S. to be unentangled from that net.

As for Sean Penn, I've lost what little respect I've had for him since he volunteered and worked the front lines in Haitii after the earthquake there. It really is quite alarming and head scratching to see the left turning out to be such war mongers and inciters of violence, when their doveish history goes back to the 60s and beyond. But then again, the left in modern times has been fully co-opted by the interests of the I.B.C. and neoliberal doctrine. Whatever benefits the I.B.C. the left supports, and with the full weight of the BAMN philosophy.

So Sean or any other liberals beating the war drums, when you and your children have enlisted and spent some time in the uniform, I will take your demands for conflict a bit more seriously, Till then, it's just bloviating and posturing and virtue signaling.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How many ethic Russians applied for asylum with Russia?

Ummm…prolly not the 15,000 civilians…shelled to death in the last four years…in Donbas and Lugansk by those wonderful Ukrainians…

I bet they won’t be applying for asylum…

What thinkest thou…?



YouSir

a reply to: Snarl

If Putin was interested in doing real harm to the Ukrainian people, he would have turned off the electricity and gas. It's pretty darned cold over there right now.

If he wanted to, he could have launched artillery barrages on Ukrainian urban areas and caused massive casualties and stampeded the population.

All war crimes. Putin realizes what he has done is bad enough, doing the things you mentioned above would almost certainly drag NATO into it. He obviously doesn't want that.

Ukrainian is a sovereign nation and the only reason Putin went in is to benefit Russia economically. I don't think the Ukrainian people deserve nor desire to be ruled under the dictator Putin. If you were in their shoes would you choose to fight or live under the iron fist of Putin?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
The people are going to have to make a choice. Band together and fight the real enemy, or follow their corrupt, evil leaders into a Hell built from their own sweat, blood, tears, and souls.

Finger directly on the pulse, NightSkyeB4Dawn ... directly on the pulse!!

a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

give the man credit he sent that tweet from Ukraine, at least as of friday he was in the war zone.

Cant stand him and there is no way we should be putting boots on the ground there but, he didnt tweet from his mansion.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: ketsuko

If Putin was interested in doing real harm to the Ukrainian people, he would have turned off the electricity and gas. It's pretty darned cold over there right now.

If he wanted to, he could have launched artillery barrages on Ukrainian urban areas and caused massive casualties and stampeded the population.

But ... he didn't.

The difference is the old regime and the new are run by different people. I'm kind'a leaning towards believing Putin when he says he invaded to rid the country of Nazis and corrupt Globalist mofos.

Okay so a guy breaks in and just beats your wife up and kids but doesn't rape or kill them, are you grateful?

It doesn't matter what he could have done, it matters what he is doing? and keep in mind before he invaded I was basically saying if he does invade he will just hit those 2 areas full of separatists and back off.

He didn't he went after Kyiv and we definitely only saw a small percentage leave for Russia before the invasion. Wouldn't you think if Ukraine was for Putin many more would have and continue to cross the border into Russia?

On top off what's with the nuclear threats? he had to know NATO was gonna continue to supply Ukraine. He severely under estimated Ukraine and by default he needs to retreat, then we can talk about all the other NWO WEF BS but too latch on to that while innocent people are being killed is crazy in itself.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

So if Russia says the u.s. is full of nazis and globalists, is he right to invade us then?

Are claims of globalists all one needs to justify invading another nation?

Nice strawman. Spring is coming; mind if I use it for a scarecrow?

The situation is completely different and you know it. Eastern Ukraine generally tends to identify with Russia; western Ukraine tends to identify with Europe. We are talking about a people in eastern Ukraine who have strong ties to Russia, not a completely different ethnicity.

That doesn't excuse Russia's invasion (it will take a lot more information to do that than we have), but it does shoot your strawman in the mouth with a bazooka.

Just because Putin isn't deliberately targeting civilians, doesn't make invasion justified?

No, it doesn't. But it does show that Putin is not trying to "conquer" Ukraine. Had he wanted to do that, he has had plenty of time to shell the place back to the stone age. Russia controls the Ukrainian airspace; they accomplished that in a matter of hours.

Plus plenty of civilians are getting killed in the crossfire.

I wonder how you define "plenty."

One is one too many, of course, but to make a statement like that demonstrates ignorance of the facts. As of Sunday, 352 Ukrainians were reported killed in the fighting. That's out of a country of 41 million or so. As wars go, this is the least lethal war where civilians are concerned that I have ever seen.

Of those 352 people, I wonder how many were killed by "friendly fire"? I'm sure you are aware that Zelensky's administration is handing out military rifles to everyone they can, in an attempt to form militias to thwart Putin. Men between 18 and 60 are literally being denied exit from Ukraine; they are instead being given a gun and told to go kill Russians. So we have one side of trained military, and another side of any Tom, Dick, or Harry between the ages of 18 and 60 who may or may not have ever held a rifle. I wonder who would be more likely to inflict collateral damage?

That same link goes on to report that Ukraine is claiming that they have killed 4500 Russian soldiers. That's over a dozen times as many. Russia has not verified the numbers, and I think they are probably inflated, but even allowing for that the Russians have lost more soldiers than the Ukraine has lost people in total. And Russia is still not targeting civilian areas! If it were the USA, we would be using a scorched earth policy by now.

Let's try to keep the realities of what is happening in mind, shall we? Putin may not be a nice guy, but he certainly is showing some restraint.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Snarl

I think like most things this isn't black and white.

I understand why Russia doesn't want a western aligned country right next door sharing 2k+ miles of border and a seaport.

But I also believe Ukraine wanted to leave the Russian sphere of influence, and don't want to be under their rule which seems inevitable whether by annex or proxy.

But my country certainly shouldn't get involved. If we "helped", it would only make things worse.

a reply to: Snarl

It's true...

Sometimes I'm torn between the two, on one hand NATO is nothing more than a tool used by the US empire to continue their imperialist expansion.
They abuse the constitution as a way to gain citizen support, saying they are spreading those values.
When in reality it's nothing more than a way to keep spreading the reach of corporate capitalism that lobbies and funds the US military machine.

Then you have Putin, and the rest of the world still living in a 19th century mindset of being less globalized and more focused on ethnic nationalism and traditional values.
When the two clash, war happens.

Supporting either side seems to be damned either way. Putin did invade ukraine, a sovereign nation, and is holding it hostage until he gets his way.
As much as I hate NATO, Russia is in the wrong.
Him saying he wants to save ethnic Russians is just a scapegoat to gain public support so his people don't rise up against him.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Some things never change.

America absolves itself of all responsibility and screams 'Nothing to do with us' whilst making obscene amounts of money out of others pain and suffering.

That is of course until someone turns on them and forces their hand then everyone is expected aid and assist them on their righteous course.

Yet again; History repeating itself.

Yet Freeborn, when we involve ourselves in the dealings of other countries, the refrain is..

* Nation building
* Regime change
* Capitalist exploitation
* Forcing our governance model on other countries

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

originally posted by: strongfp
Him saying he wants to save ethnic Russians is just a scapegoat to gain public support so his people don't rise up against him.

My lack of condemnation stems from Biden's throwing hundreds of millions of the USA's tax dollars to Ukraine and the Big Guy's family raking in 10s of millions in kickbacks. He was recorded in a public broadcast bragging about it.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How many ethic Russians applied for asylum with Russia?

So many ways to handle the situation without invading the Ukrainian.

Who’s bullying who now…. With threats of nuclear action?

If you want to talk persecution.

There will be dad and mum': Putin rules out Russia legalizing gay marriage

www.nbcnews.com...

That's not persecution.

You realize there are reasons why a government might not want to allow same sex marriage that have nothing to do with hating gay people, right?

1) Russian tank that ran over a civilian car in Kyiv was a Strela-10 Ukrainian air defense system. NOT Russian.

2) Photos of Zelenskyy in military garb with a helmet on are from a 2021 Ukrainian border inspection trip.

3) The “Ghost of Kyiv” MiG-19 shooting down a Russian Su-35 was from a Digital Combat Simulator animation.

4) The “Ghost of Kyiv” identitified as Samuyil Hyde is actually a pic of SAM HYDE, an internet prankster.

5) Photo of two children (girl in pink with teddy bear, boy saluting) watching convoy pass, are from 2016.

6) The photos of a woman saying goodbye to her man, going off to fight Putin’s Russians IS FROM A MOVIE.

7) Snake Island “martyrs” actually were NOT killed, and a video shows all 82 being transported to Sevastopol.

8) “Her Blood Is On His Hands” old lady photos that were on the front pages of The Sun, The Mirror, and The Guardian are actually images from years ago.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

All done in the name of 'The War on Terror'.
Some justified criticisms, some not.

That's not really the point.

WWI. Started 1914. 'Nothing to do with us'. Until hand forced in 1917.
WWII. Started 1039. 'Nothing to do with us'. Until Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on the USA in 1941.
On both occasions the USA made massive amounts of money arming and supplying both sides....until they were forced into both wars.
WWIII? 'Nothing to do with us'.

Sound familiar?

dble post

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

All done in the name of 'The War on Terror'.
Some justified criticisms, some not.

That's not really the point.

WWI. Started 1914. 'Nothing to do with us'. Until hand forced in 1917.
WWII. Started 1039. 'Nothing to do with us'. Until Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on the USA in 1941.
On both occasions the USA made massive amounts of money arming and supplying both sides....until they were forced into both wars.
WWIII? 'Nothing to do with us'.

Sound familiar?

FWIW during WWII that wasn't exactly US government-sponsored support for both sides, it was more of a corporate mogul cabal that did do business with Germany, lest we forget we had a silent coup attempt by that cabal in 1933/34.

but yes this is a continuation of building a country up and then destroying it and rebuilding it again. One reason lots of Americans didn't want Biden and his 47 years as an American politician as President, because it was likely to be a continuation of those policies