Is Which Side To Pick Not Becoming More Abundantly Clear?

a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

Sean Penn is always on the wrong side.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You might have a point about it being just propaganda, but using their leader being a Jew as reason for it to be “awkward”...
I can think of one famous Nazi party in particular that fits the same description.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Snarl

If Putin was interested in doing real harm to the Ukrainian people, he would have turned off the electricity and gas. It's pretty darned cold over there right now.

If he wanted to, he could have launched artillery barrages on Ukrainian urban areas and caused massive casualties and stampeded the population.

All war crimes. Putin realizes what he has done is bad enough, doing the things you mentioned above would almost certainly drag NATO into it. He obviously doesn't want that.

Ukrainian is a sovereign nation and the only reason Putin went in is to benefit Russia economically. I don't think the Ukrainian people deserve nor desire to be ruled under the dictator Putin. If you were in their shoes would you choose to fight or live under the iron fist of Putin?

Do you realize Ukraine has been bombing and killing Russian civilians in Donbass for the last 8 years?!?? If you know where to look you can see pictures and videos of all the dead Russian civilians, their apartments and homes blown to pieces. There is even an old CNN article from a few years ago where their reporters on the ground verified that Ukraine airforce bombed Russian neighborhoods in Donetsk. So don't sit here and say "the only reason Putin invaded Ukraine was to benefit Russia economically" because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about!!

Putin had warned Ukraine many times in the past several years to stop killing Russians in Donbass. I'm actually surprised it took so long to act to get rid of Ukraines government who had been murdering Russians for YEARS.

UKRAINE even cut Crimea off from their supply of fresh water many years ago and in turn ruined all their farm land and made it hard for the Russian people in Crimea to get clean drinkable water. Who does that? These people in Crimea used to be your citizens and as soon as they voted to join Russia, Ukraine says "F YOU" no more water for you guys. Russia blew up the dam Ukraine built to block water to Crimea a few days ago, so they will again be able to grow crops and have drinking water.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Imperator2

So, you would like to see Russia succeed in invading an independent country because of your pre-determined, locked in take on partisan politics in the USA rather than the little matter of Right V Wrong?

Got you.

Or maybe because Ukraine ain't so innocent in all this? The media is running with their agenda and aren't telling the people the war started years ago and that Ukraine has killed 1000s of Russian civilians in Donbass over the last 8 years! Ukraine has bombed Russian neighborhoods and sent in their Azov Battalion and army into Donbass region so many times I cant believe it took Putin so long to act on taking Ukraine out.
I dont want to see no civilians on either side die, I don't want to see anyone die from either army either, the videos I've been seeing are some of the most gruesome deaths I've ever seen, but what was Russia supposed to just allow Ukraine to continue to kill and bully the Russian people in Donbass?

This is the thing with the media they aren't telling the whole story, not even close. If people knew the truth they would start siding with the Russians more, the media is playing it out "EVIL Putin wants to just take over Ukraine just because he can" . When its really far from the truth. Ukraine was killing Russians for years and trying g to get into NATO as well which would mean Ukraine could just continue killing the Russian people in Donbass and if Russia wanted to put a stop to it then all of a sudden NATO is now involved as well, so if you cant see why Putin needs control of Ukraine I dont know what else to say.

If a neighboring country of the US, say Canada, was bombing US neighborhoods in an area of Canada that was 90% American and killing thousands of American civilians and then Canada was also wanting to join up with a number of countries that hate the USA as well, do you think the USA would allow this?? Do you think it would be wrong if the USA wanted to topple the Canadian government before things got way worse for the USA???

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Sounds more like to me you've bought into the propaganda, sure I'm sure there are some Naziesque people in Ukraine, but there are here too, doesn't mean the majority are.

Here's an interesting video if you've got ten minutes. If you don't, at least scroll forward to where you can see Tulsi Gabbard throwing down some facts the media really doesn't want you to know. Interested to know what you think after seeing it.

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Sounds more like to me you've bought into the propaganda, sure I'm sure there are some Naziesque people in Ukraine, but there are here too, doesn't mean the majority are.

Here's an interesting video if you've got ten minutes. If you don't, at least scroll forward to where you can see Tulsi Gabbard throwing down some facts the media really doesn't want you to know. Interested to know what you think after seeing it.

Good video, I hate how the media portrays Zelenskyy to be this hero when he has beaten and jailed reporters that are critical of him, jailed his political opponents shut down Ukrainian news stations that were critical of him, not allowing anything pro Russian, etc not even including the real evil stuff he's done like bombing the Russian neighborhoods in Donbass and not allowing the fresh water into Crimea. Edit- oh and hes forcing his civilians to go fight whether they want to or not or else go to jail and probably get beaten. I wish the media would have done a story at the Polish border with the Ukrainian men who were trying to get into Poland with their families but were denied entrance and were told to go back to Liev to fight. Making 50-60 year old men or any man who doesn't want to fight, has no training, never used a gun before , head into a combat zone to fight against trained Soliders if just sending these men on suicides missions. But hey, that's what makes Zelenskyy a great leader, right?

Not to mention all of Zelenskyys pre recorded videos hes made and releasing them that "hes on the front lines" to trick his citizens "if I'm on the front lines, you can be do". The video from the other day too where as he was talking, some man walks in and interrupts loudly to tell him "live and in person for the first time" that Russia has bombed a holocaust memorial. All acting. I can't believe people fall for the obvious Propaganda. There's no way I believe that he just learned that while he was making that video. Dude used to be a professional actor so everything he does I'm skeptical of.

Behind the mask- no you've bought into the Propaganda. Sure the US has Nazis/Supremacists but we don't have entire units of our military that are ALL NAZIS and allowed to be nazis openly like Ukraine does with their Azov Battalion. Could you imagine if the US had military units were everyone in the unit was a white supremacist and they were all allowed to openly be white supremacists?? Where members of this unit eventually work their way up into the government? There's a Canadian article from CTV.ca I believe it's from Oct 21st/2021 that talks about the Ukrainian Nazis bragging that they could training from the Canadian military. Theres several articles from Isreal websites in the past several years that are bring critical of Ukraine and their Nazis and the fact that many of the weapons that Israel has supplied Ukraine have ended up in the hands of the Nazis in the Azov movement. It's easy to find the articles on Google and Google images with searching "Ukrainian Nazis Azov" "Azov movement Ukraine" "Azov supremacists" etc etc etc tons of pics on images too

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

You

hate how the media portrays Zelenskyy to be this hero when he has beaten and jailed reporters that are critical of him,

How many journalists were jailed in the Ukrainian in 2021 vs Russia?

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

Or maybe because Ukraine ain't so innocent in all this? The media is running with their agenda and aren't telling the people the war started years ago and that Ukraine has killed 1000s of Russian civilians in Donbass over the last 8 years!

Donbass is part of Ukraine. The only Russians there are the ones who shot down MH17. Or had you forgotten that? There is a civil war there and I agree more should have been done to end it. But that's not a reason to bomb women and children living hundreds of miles away, who have nothing at all to do with it.


In any case, had Putin simply sent his army in to "liberate" and "protect" the people of Donbass - and nothing more - world reaction would have been very different.

a reply to: Snarl
Goods maybe the Russians will capture Mr Penn and lock him up in a gulag in Siberia for his terrible acting.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: SentientBunnySuit

just as liberals and the pro WWIII cheeleaders are way cool with siding with Ukrainian neo-nazis

Awkward considering their leader is a jew

Sounds more like to me youve bought into the propaganda, sure im sure there are some naziesque people in ukraine, but there are here too, doesnt mean the majority are.

That aside they still have the right to defend their country from invasion from a mad man

Do you NOT remember just weeks ago the narrative for the Truckers convoy was they were Neo Nazis and racists?

When are you guys going to wise up to the propaganda used to target people

Read up on tbe Azov Battalion

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: Snarl
Good maybe the Russians will capture Mr Penn and lock him up in a gulag in Siberia for his terrible acting.

LOL

I always favored his talents as an actor.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

Kudos if you can name me 1 war where the civilian casualties had anything to do with the war..
It's the thing with wars, the innocents suffer.. therefore i cannot condone any war.
I can have an understanding of the reasons behind them, and choose to agree or not with those reasons, though.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: SentientBunnySuit

This…

People's Republics (DPR and LPR, respectively), armed Russian separatist groups seized government building throughout the Donbas, leading to armed conflict with Ukrainian government forces.[30]



While the initial protests were largely native expressions of discontent with the new Ukrainian government, Russia took advantage of them to launch a co-ordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine.[31] Russian citizens led the separatist movement in Donetsk from April until August 2014, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia.[32][33][34] As the conflict escalated in May 2014, Russia employed a "hybrid approach", deploying a combination of disinformation, irregular fighters, regular Russian troops, and conventional military support to destabilize the Donbas.[35][36]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Amazing what context does…

So, a foreign power provides direct support for their preferred side in a Civil War? Where have I seen that before? I mean except the Orange Revolution and Euromaiden, obviously. No war for Davos.

I live in a state with a WEF trained tyrant as governor who tramples our state constitution and literally declares election results "informational" treating the will of the people as nothing more than a survey when it limits his authority. Tyranny is already here. I'm grateful for states like yours. I have colleagues in Ukraine and want them to be free. Taking on Putin and getting us all nuked is a bad idea. Putin's stated ideology directly rejects individual liberty and Russians should reject him if they choose to do so. That they haven't in more than 22 years should be telling. If he is the evil madman the media claims why would you bet your life and the lives own citizens that he won't use nukes as he said he would? And I would challenge you on corruption in US vs Russia, I got banned from social media for posting an image of Biden that I got from CNN. It's been a long time since America was free.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

No, you're the hypocrite.

You equate the war as unprovoked. You have no idea.

I don't agree AT ALL with the aggression Russia employs, I don't agree with their style of governance either, AT ALL.

But to sit there and think that this war was unprovoked proves to me at least one thing. You have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever. You are literally clueless like a little baby.

You poke a dormant bear long enough, and they will kill you. Who's fault is it? The poker or the bear?

As much as I #ing hate to admit it, logic dictates that Russia has every card in their favor for liberating Ukraine, because it doesn't just affect Ukraine, it affects them also.

Think about it... think, even though it's not your forte.

Ukraine is weaponizing their civilians to fight. What does an enemy combatant see then? What are they trained to do to enemy soldiers? Ukraine has become a martyr factory now. But you won't see it because you can't see things with blinders on. You see what you're told to see, you feel what you're told to feel, you think the way you're told to think.

a reply to: mindpurge

Like they say: if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.
I don't know if you remember but in the beginning 'the world' was really open for Putin as new head of Russia, he simply played his cards wrong. Was that also provocation?
The colour revolutions sure had CIA support written all over it, the sphere of influence for Russia shrunk considerably.
However what you suggest here is kind of like because one sucks at charades it's fine to turn it into a cage fight.
It's a bit victim shaming what you're doing. The only thing that justifies a war is being attacked/invaded.
You lose that privilige of claiming the moral high ground if you're doing the attacking.


And before you start with '... but the USA...' it's still a different pair of shoes because counter terrorism allows for a lot more leeway kind of than the silly Nazi justification Putin has come up with.
It's already difficult for the USA playing the good guys, after everything, but at least they got free speech and a vocal opposition and things like that going for them, while in Russia everybody who speaks up ends up in prison or dead.
So if a guy like Putin who has changed the laws so he could stay in power indefinitely suddenly goes on a crusade to remove dictators it comes across a tad bit... confusing. To keep it polite.

Are there issues in the West, yes. Are our democracies as good as they could be, no.
But I don't need a guy poisoning me or paying Mafia stooges to shoot me because I have annoying opinions to feel 'liberated'.

originally posted by: Sander1976

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Snarl

Yes Putin is great as he levels Ukraine cities and kills it's citizens.

This is not happening.

I realize it's anecdotal and may not mean very much to you, but my cousin's wife is Ukranian. It is absolutely happening. While I don't know where her home town was being shelled. She lives in America, but she is in communication with her "immediate" family who still lives there.

The propaganda machine is definitely in motion on both sides, but war always includes a propaganda war as well.

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

It is very clear who is doing the invading and who is being invaded, so I definitely support our Ukrainian friends.

I think our own leaders in the US and UK could have done a lot to prevent this, I feel like they are using the Ukrainians.

The Russian sense that NATO is encroaching on them is not crazy at all. We certainly could have negotiated a peace agreement with Russia, actually defended Western Ukraine and stopped pretending that lines on a map are the only thing that matters, since they have never ever mattered to us.

Already, inflation, fuel prices, supply chain shortages, are being blamed on this new war, and our leaders are making grand inspirational speeches, while ordinary people suffer. Banks are talking about the need to print more money and we are talking about atomic war again in Europe.

I hope the Ukraine does get to decide for themselves how they live, if they do join the EU they will probably find it as challenging as all the other Eastern European countries do. I hope they remain free and independent.