NEW - VIDEO, A VIEW FROM A BOAT

a reply to: andz2022

The wings also shattered on impact. Outside the wingroot area and engine pylon, the wings are hollow shells that hold fuel. There’s a reason they have large areas on them marked “No Step”. Even stepping on those areas could cause damage to the skin on the wing.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Okay

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Aluminum pole with 0.250 wall thickness

a reply to: BBF521

Just for some scale, remember each floor weighed

3,200,000 pounds 800,000 per side of each floor

Each tower was around 500,000,000 pounds/226,796,185 Kg

a reply to: BBF521

That was an extremely low speed impact and look what it did to the wing. Thank you for making the point in my next post for me. The wings shattered against the building at impact. There’s a huge difference between hitting a pole at 5 mph or less with your wing, and the entire aircraft impacting at over 400 mph.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes there is difference speed matters for sure.
If he was going faster the pole would have cut through it like butter.The plane would keep going ,but it would be missing,half of its wing.

But you know that already!!!

So,You are either lacking knowledge in physics,surface tension,surface area, contact area,sheer,tear, Or you are willfully being disingenuous,and argumentative.

a reply to: BBF521

If he was going faster the pole would have severed. They use breakaway poles, just like on the road. It would have hit the outer spar in the wing, and would have broken away from the base. All that proves is how weak the wing is to impact forces.

American Airlines hits light pole at DFW-

a reply to: Zaphod58

The pole didnt fail,in that video,and you know it did not.The bolts failed.And i am sure after that they did not fly off ,they had to repair that wing.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And another amazing fact,The planes had no problem with the outer steel beams and aluminum cladding ,they went through that,it seemed like butter.
But they sure tore apart once inside,all that massive office furniture,and what not.

originally posted by: BBF521
a reply to: Zaphod58

And another amazing fact,The planes had no problem with the outer steel beams and aluminum cladding ,they went through that,it seemed like butter.
But they sure tore apart once inside,all that massive office furniture,and what not.

a reply to: BBF521

I didn’t say the pole failed. I said it’s designed to break away, which is exactly what it did in that video, and what would have happened in your example. Not cutting through like butter as you claimed.

a reply to: BBF521

The impact with the outer wall tore them apart as they went through it. They aren’t going to stay intact going through any kind of wall. Look at the Korean Airlines in the Philippines the other day. It went through a wall and ripped the lower forward fuselage apart. The same thing was happening here. The planes went through the outer wall and came apart as they did.

The biggest problem with these arguments is everyone assumes the buildings were built to code, no short cuts were taken no mob skimming, no bad inspectors etc. (considering NY has been notorious for this over the years)

Then you dont take into account the weight X speed, and you are always assuming the plane struck the strongest structural point of the building.

6.7 lbs per gallons of fuel and around 92000 lbs of fuel for a 767, google says empty wt of a 767-200 is 188000 lbs so around 280,000 lbs estimated. travelling at an estimated 494 mph gets you roughly 6,305,371 lbs of force.

This kind of math isn't my specialty but if you assume you are in the ball park everything in front of the impact point got wrecked. Then you dont need to remember if they wrecked the structural support on just 1 floor when it gave way you had all that weight above crashing straight down what 12 feet another multiplier I dont even know how to figure out, being built to hold something up is different than catching the weight of something coming straight down.

(numbers will vary as I cannot tell you the exact weight and exact speed the planes were traveling as it seems to vary depending on where you look.)

a reply to: Zaphod58

My picture was not of a breakaway pole.It was an 8 single sheer pedestal.But if your pole was an 8 single sheer it would have done the same thing and tear through the wing.

But what you are saying is the planes shattered after it passed through /broke/cut/tore the 12x12 2 inch thick box beams,and aluminum cladding.

Or are you saying it shattered as it started making contact with the building while simultaneously cutting through the steel.Like a shotgun.

And as the plane shattered, according to the story, and didnt loose any energy, transferring that energy to shrapnel.

SO None of the fuel,absorbed energy,none of the seats luggage,none of that absorbed any energy.It all was eaten up by the initial impact to break through the outer steel. Is what is said.

But the plane was only traveling at 734 feet per second[500 mph x 5280=2,640,00]/ 3,600=734 about as fast as a daisy red rider BB gun.

Not even the titanium parts at that speed could make it through 2 inch wall thickness 12 inch x 12 inch box beam,not going to break the welds not going to snap the gussets.

It cant ,wont ,and never will.
I cant change that,you cant change that,no president can change that. We do not have control over that.

a reply to: Irishhaf
Yeah and everyone wants to combine the weight of everything on the plane as one large giant bullet.

It wasn't a solid mass.The tire has its own mass as its flying at what ever speed.The luggage,the engine each was their own collision.Own mass own structural integrity.

The plane was not some giant full metal jacket bullet designed ,with magical penetration ability to cut through steel.

Go grab just one side of the box beam 12 inch by 12 inch with 2 inch wall thickness at your local welding school ,or scrap yard.And stare at it for a minute then try to destroy it.Then imagine that with 4 sides.Then go fire any gun with the heaviest high velocity rounds, to shoot at it.
Then come back here and report the results.Tells us what rounds made it through,and where you were able to get those rounds.

a reply to: BBF521

The initial impact would be 1 giant mass because it was solid as the impact started, then as the heavier pieces broke off they would plow through under their own weigh x speed.

You also ignored what I said you are ASSUMING everything in that building was built correctly and that nobody cut any corners, that is something you will never ever have an answer to.

a reply to: Irishhaf
No they would not.
Nothing went through the outer wall,without some kind of help.Nothing on any plane did.

a reply to: BBF521

Mass is mass, In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed changes. The same amount of work is done by the body when decelerating from its current speed to a state of rest.

The speed of the plane would not have changed till after impact which means the kinetic energy would still be through the roof, steel girders are meant to support weight not absorb a massive impact. Here is the kinetic energy in joules for the numbers I used 3,096,994,563 Tell me again how steel girders can absorb that impact.

a reply to: Irishhaf

take that total pound-force and divide it by the plane front area in inches squared,Its not so amazing

That will give its psi force. steel has a shear modulus of 79.3 GPa en.wikipedia.org...

And around 70,000 psi tensile strength.

So the videos post are 100% impossible.

a reply to: BBF521

I will speed it up for you there is about 1200 square feet x 144 inches per square feet=172,800 square inches.frontal surface area.
So 3,096,994,563 divided by 172,800=17,922 psi couldn't even make it through the first 2 inches. never mind a 12inch x12inch 2inch wall thickness box beam.

It all should have crumpled up and slid down the building in a flaming mass.

a reply to: BBF521

Wait dindt convert my bad.
3,096,994,563 x .73756 conversion joules to foot pounds.=2,284,219,309.88628/172800=13,218.862 PSI