Memento Mori. Testament to a false doctrine – there is no such thing as Hellfire.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Most false religious doctrines trace back to ancient Babylon. From there they spread in all directions, making Egypt, Medo-Persia (later further east where Hinduism and Buddhism were born), and then later Greece, key players in spreading these religious philosophies further. Plato was also a key Pagan philosopher in making the myth of the immortal immaterial soul (a requirement for the next one) and the myth that the wicked suffer in hell more popular in Western philosophy by means of his prominence and those of other Greek Pagan philosophers. This prominence was also influential in the process of Christendom's theologians and philosophers adopting many of these myths/false stories by way of Satan > Babylon > Egypt and Medo-Persia > Greece.

Following the Flood of Noah’s day, false religion had its beginning at Babel (later known as Babylon). (Gen. 10:8-10; 11:4-9) In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So “Babylon the Great” became a fitting name for false religion as a whole.—Re 14:8; 16:19; chaps 17, 18; 19:1-3.

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide:

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.

What is the origin of Christendom’s belief in an immaterial, immortal soul?

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

And I quoted The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria before concerning the phrase “death was a passage to another kind of life.”

Satan's first version of this lie to Eve was “you certainly will not die.” (Gen 3:4) He changed it up a little bit once it became obvious that that was a lie after Eve had died as a result of falling for Satan's lies and schemes.

“Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato.”​—Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell), by Georges Minois, page 50.

“From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890.

The 2 myths are connected. “For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Though Babylon became the capital of a political empire in the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E., it was outstandingly prominent during its entire history as a religious center from which religious influence radiated in many directions.

Professor Morris Jastrow, Jr., in his work The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (1898, pp. 699-701), says regarding this: “In the ancient world, prior to the rise of Christianity, Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion. . . . In Persia, the Mithra cult reveals the unmistakable influence of Babylonian conceptions; and if it be recalled what a degree of importance the mysteries connected with this cult acquired among the Romans, another link will be added connecting the ramifications of ancient culture with the civilization of the Euphrates Valley.” In conclusion he refers to “the profound impression made upon the ancient world by the remarkable manifestations of religious thought in Babylonia and by the religious activity that prevailed in that region.”

Babylon’s religious influence is traced eastward to India in the book New Light on the Most Ancient East, by archaeologist V. Childe (1957, p. 185). Among other points he states: “The swastika and the cross, common on stamps and plaques, were religious or magical symbols as in Babylonia and Elam in the earliest prehistoric period, but preserve that character also in modern India as elsewhere.” Thus, ancient Babylon’s religious influence spread out to many peoples and nations, much farther and with greater potency and endurance than did her political strength.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Here's another way of thinking, or set of philosophies, that trace all the way back to Babylon, it too is connected to Eastern philosophies such as reincarnation, which in turn is also dependent on the myth of an immaterial immortal soul*, just like the hellfire doctrine (*or at least the notion that some spirit or energy part of a human being survives the death of the physical body, following the Babylonian notion that 'death is a passage to another kind of life' as emphasized in my previous comment):

The Pagan Religious Roots of Evolutionary Philosophies and Philosophical Naturalism (part 1 of 2)

a reply to: whereislogic

I am in complete, basic agreement with what you say in the two posts above. Well said!

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: rounda

You barely use the YLT, except to advance the argument that eternal doesn't mean eternal.

You're still not answering the question. Here it is for the third time... second time all by itself, bolded.

How long does punishment last if I don't accept Jesus as my lord and savior after the age of punishment?

BTW, the 4 gospels, which talk about eternal torment and hell, the devil and his angels, etc... were written between 50 and 90 CE... and Paul's Epistles, where he talks about eternal destruction and punishment, were written between 30 and 70 CE.

And most damning, is Revelation was written before 100 CE... so...

So yea, 2000 years of Christian doctrine.

I already answered, you must not be listening. If you do not, HYPOTHETICALLY, accept Jesus and so on, your punishment lasts until Godfire has purified you. Remember EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess...

Do you really think you must explain TO ME when the New Testament was written? I became a Christian in 1977. As for your 2000 years, yes, it was all written down when you say...but the text was changed at some point. From what I have read, it happened when later Latin versions were produced. Give me a version translated direct from the Greek and Hebrew. The version I'm now reading was translated by a group of Messianic Jews in South Africa, so it lacks Latinate corruption, including "hell," word or concept.

"Until Godfire has purified you."

So, an indefinite amount of time. Sounds like eternal.

Oh how convenient. The text was changed at some point.

Show us the proof. Show us the original text, then show us where it was changed.

You realize there are so many pieces of evidence that show the bible has not been changed, it's almost ludicrous to suggest it.

But, if it had been changed, especially to something God did not mean, that would mean the bible is not the inspired word of God, wouldn't it?

Yet another fundamental Christian doctrine you contradict.

a reply to: rounda

You are the Strawman Master.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
a reply to: rounda

You are the Strawman Master.

I don't think you understand what a strawman is, much like you don't understand what "age-during" means.

a reply to: rounda

You're still throwing everything back on me. This is my last response to you.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Lazarus Short
...
Babylon’s religious influence is traced eastward to India in the book New Light on the Most Ancient East, by archaeologist V. Childe (1957, p. 185). Among other points he states: “The swastika and the cross, common on stamps and plaques, were religious or magical symbols as in Babylonia and Elam in the earliest prehistoric period, but preserve that character also in modern India as elsewhere.” Thus, ancient Babylon’s religious influence spread out to many peoples and nations, much farther and with greater potency and endurance than did her political strength.

More details regarding that subject, with pictures of the various crosses used as “religious or magical symbols”:

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
a reply to: rounda

You're still throwing everything back on me. This is my last response to you.

It's not difficult to do, since everything you say can be shown to be wrong.