Car Companies going too far Subscription for Heated Seats

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Why is there a "Chip" required for a heated seat at all?????

I don't think the article even mentions anything about a chip.
It just talks about being required to pay for the updated software.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe
The chip shortage can't be a valid reason. The seat heating is done with MOSFET either external, that's a fingernail sized part maximum and some resistors for like under 1$ if bought on big scales. Plus the casing, cabling and documentation etc.

But most of the time, it's going to be on the main ECU controller or one of it's CAN bus / similar controller bricks. These are mass produced with IO chips that are all the same. They have the pins on the chip anyway so the chip excuse sounds kind of cheap.

I will get back to the thread, I expect an answer like "I will get back to you about this" and then it may take a day or two. Personal, it feels like a little misunderstanding and may be related to a leasing model BMW has in mind.

What the other user wrote about them breaking down after 5 years is complete nonsense. And I know how some people treat / do not treat their car. Like reving when the oil didn't even have a chance to get to the cams. Anyway the engines from BMW I open look great compared to others, mostly.

If such a trend catches on with the manufacturers, it would likely evolve into a subscription system needed to be able to even start your car. With so many software packages for computers going the subscription route, it is only a matter of time before the OS (Windows, for instance) will have a termination date upon which it will just cease running until you pay the subscription fee. They will likely state it is for everyone's own good to keep hackers from infecting every network that obsolete computer's operating system is attached to. Honestly, I am surprised this hasn't taken place already.

The heated seats is just a trial balloon. But just because it might go away doesn't mean it won't reappear for another "luxury item" in your automobile. Power steering, for instance. You know, we used to drive vehicles without it? Same with power brakes, air conditioning, power windows, even powered starters. The manufacturers will certainly try to get away with whatever they believe the market will bear.

But in any event, with the medical profession herding us all into subscription based health (you MUST get your vaccination shots and boosters every year!), why would it surprise anyone that this MO is bleeding over into other mandated sources of revenue for businesses? Certainly they can see the lucrative potential for such a thing. You can't blame them for trying. But you should blame ourselves if they succeed.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Their nose for customer relations is sometimes piss-poor. This was the same company whose chief, when visiting one of their facilities in South Carolina, compared it to the "developing world".

A lot of prominent Europeans have those blinders on. They imagine themselves worldly, but when they see a region that is structured differently from the café society they grew up in, their provincial mentality is very apparent.

This is also why the Eurocrats are tying themselves in knots now. All of them have a provincial view of how an ethnically, economically, and politically complex region called "Europe" should be organized.

Cheers

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Jason79

originally posted by: gb540
Have any consumer or legal groups ever checked into how the "You don't actually own it" model works with vehicles?

Yes cell phone makers bury in their terms of use. And with Deere you can bring home a $1 million machine with little more than their invoice.

But with vehicles in the US, you get a government-issued title stating it's YOURS. Are there loopholes for "Well maybe not all of it"?

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin says it's your car. When you register your car, the government keeps that and gives you a title instead. If you don't keep your regeneration up to date you lose permission to use that car on your roads.

Think about it, public roads free for everyone, permission need to use the car you gave to the state. You never owned your car.

um no it isnt the same thing..

you OWN your car (unless financed then you own it after you pay off your debt).

The "title" is just states way of getting some cash out of you to prove you own it and live in that state .

you still own the vehicle and just may (key word may) take it from you if the court for breaking that law says they can

to do that you have to drive it on the PUBLIC roads and be arrested.

if you dont have a registration (plates) you can get your car impounded and only loose it IF you dont pay your registration and fees.

HOWEVER .. if your not driving it on public roads and either storing it or driving it on your private property (better own a farm) .
then you dont need an up to date registration/plates.

look you can own your vehicle .

but if you want to DRIVE IT on PUBLIC STREETS/LAND.. you need a title and up to date registration

owning it isnt a problem

driving it on PUBLIC STREETS is a privilege, not a right..

hope this clears it up for you

scrounger

Yeah no. I'm paying taxes on a 22 year old truck that's been "paid off" for 19 years. Yet I'm still paying taxes for it. In fact they are already threatening to cancel all my registrations on all my trucks because I dropped the insurance on that one, because it dosen't run without an engine. We already don't own anything.

originally posted by: Jason79

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Jason79

originally posted by: gb540
Have any consumer or legal groups ever checked into how the "You don't actually own it" model works with vehicles?

Yes cell phone makers bury in their terms of use. And with Deere you can bring home a $1 million machine with little more than their invoice.

But with vehicles in the US, you get a government-issued title stating it's YOURS. Are there loopholes for "Well maybe not all of it"?

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin says it's your car. When you register your car, the government keeps that and gives you a title instead. If you don't keep your regeneration up to date you lose permission to use that car on your roads.

Think about it, public roads free for everyone, permission need to use the car you gave to the state. You never owned your car.

um no it isnt the same thing..

you OWN your car (unless financed then you own it after you pay off your debt).

The "title" is just states way of getting some cash out of you to prove you own it and live in that state .

you still own the vehicle and just may (key word may) take it from you if the court for breaking that law says they can

to do that you have to drive it on the PUBLIC roads and be arrested.

if you dont have a registration (plates) you can get your car impounded and only loose it IF you dont pay your registration and fees.

HOWEVER .. if your not driving it on public roads and either storing it or driving it on your private property (better own a farm) .
then you dont need an up to date registration/plates.

look you can own your vehicle .

but if you want to DRIVE IT on PUBLIC STREETS/LAND.. you need a title and up to date registration

owning it isnt a problem

driving it on PUBLIC STREETS is a privilege, not a right..

hope this clears it up for you

scrounger

Yeah no. I'm paying taxes on a 22 year old truck that's been "paid off" for 19 years.

No your paying REGISTRATION (AKA PLATES AND STICKERS DEPENDING) so you can LEGALLY DRIVE THEM on public roads.. while seems similar, they are NOT.. btw you only pay "taxes" when you BUY A CAR and some states are trying to do it if you SELL a car.

Yet I'm still paying taxes for it. In fact they are already threatening to cancel all my registrations on all my trucks because I dropped the insurance on that one,

again REGISTRATION, NOT TAXES . all states to my knowlege REQURE YOU to carry insurance IF YOU REGISTER YOUR CAR to DRIVE ON PUBLIC STREETS. along with they WILL NOT cancel your REGISTRATION on "all my trucks" for dropping insurance ON ONE TRUCK.. it does not work that way IN ANY STATE.. since EACH VEHICLE IS REGISTERED INDIVIDUALLY..

because it dosen't run without an engine.

so its an unmoving/ non fuctional vehicle.. if you tell that to any DMV they will either tell you to get a junk title or to re register it when its operational. with a warning IF you drive it on public roads WITHOUT REGISTRATION your breaking the law.....guess what.. junk yards and repair yards have this situation ALL THE TIME.. whats your problem?

We already don't own anything.

I dont care how often you keep repeating this IT WONT MAKE IT TRUE/FACTS

you OWN ALL YOUR VEHICLES.. but to DRIVE THEM LEGALLY you must have them REGISTERED AND INSURED..
it isnt TAXES nor is it called such...

man anyone can find this info out ON LINE at your state DMV website.

sigh

scrounger

a reply to: Rich Z

for crap sake dont give them any ideas about paying to start/run your car

because here in IL they would take that and add a TAX on it to "get their cut" on the service





scrounger

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Jason79

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Jason79

originally posted by: gb540
Have any consumer or legal groups ever checked into how the "You don't actually own it" model works with vehicles?

Yes cell phone makers bury in their terms of use. And with Deere you can bring home a $1 million machine with little more than their invoice.

But with vehicles in the US, you get a government-issued title stating it's YOURS. Are there loopholes for "Well maybe not all of it"?

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin says it's your car. When you register your car, the government keeps that and gives you a title instead. If you don't keep your regeneration up to date you lose permission to use that car on your roads.

Think about it, public roads free for everyone, permission need to use the car you gave to the state. You never owned your car.

um no it isnt the same thing..

you OWN your car (unless financed then you own it after you pay off your debt).

The "title" is just states way of getting some cash out of you to prove you own it and live in that state .

you still own the vehicle and just may (key word may) take it from you if the court for breaking that law says they can

to do that you have to drive it on the PUBLIC roads and be arrested.

if you dont have a registration (plates) you can get your car impounded and only loose it IF you dont pay your registration and fees.

HOWEVER .. if your not driving it on public roads and either storing it or driving it on your private property (better own a farm) .
then you dont need an up to date registration/plates.

look you can own your vehicle .

but if you want to DRIVE IT on PUBLIC STREETS/LAND.. you need a title and up to date registration

owning it isnt a problem

driving it on PUBLIC STREETS is a privilege, not a right..

hope this clears it up for you

scrounger

Yeah no. I'm paying taxes on a 22 year old truck that's been "paid off" for 19 years.

No your paying REGISTRATION (AKA PLATES AND STICKERS DEPENDING) so you can LEGALLY DRIVE THEM on public roads.. while seems similar, they are NOT.. btw you only pay "taxes" when you BUY A CAR and some states are trying to do it if you SELL a car.

Yet I'm still paying taxes for it. In fact they are already threatening to cancel all my registrations on all my trucks because I dropped the insurance on that one,

again REGISTRATION, NOT TAXES . all states to my knowlege REQURE YOU to carry insurance IF YOU REGISTER YOUR CAR to DRIVE ON PUBLIC STREETS. along with they WILL NOT cancel your REGISTRATION on "all my trucks" for dropping insurance ON ONE TRUCK.. it does not work that way IN ANY STATE.. since EACH VEHICLE IS REGISTERED INDIVIDUALLY..

because it dosen't run without an engine.

so its an unmoving/ non fuctional vehicle.. if you tell that to any DMV they will either tell you to get a junk title or to re register it when its operational. with a warning IF you drive it on public roads WITHOUT REGISTRATION your breaking the law.....guess what.. junk yards and repair yards have this situation ALL THE TIME.. whats your problem?

We already don't own anything.

I dont care how often you keep repeating this IT WONT MAKE IT TRUE/FACTS

you OWN ALL YOUR VEHICLES.. but to DRIVE THEM LEGALLY you must have them REGISTERED AND INSURED..
it isnt TAXES nor is it called such...

man anyone can find this info out ON LINE at your state DMV website.

sigh

scrounger

The state of arkansas has issues calling one of the many fees a tax.

salinecollector.ar.gov...

intercom.help...

Do you pay property tax on vehicles in Arkansas?
Arkansans are required to pay personal property taxes every year. Personal property taxes are applied to items such as vehicles, trailers, motorcyles, etc. and are paid to your county collector.

a reply to: JAGStorm

This is insane, clown world is getting bigger.

This will roll over to household goods.

Imagine buying a $2,000 refrigerator but having to subscribe to use the built in ice maker. $10 a year for regular ice, but if you want crushed ice it’s an extra $1 for the subscription.

I agree with you. Our economy is moving from an ownership model to a subscription model. Owning property must have been too threatening to the elite. Haven't you heard? "In the future, you will own nothing, and you will love it."

The funny thing is, the elite will still own property. They will own everything, in fact - but rent it out.

a reply to: darkbake

Just like what the WEF want's... you will own nothing. It's communism 2.0, more intelligent people than me can for sure fabricobble a more fitting term. Like technocratic communism or something into that direction.

Born in former DDR, did not experience the life because too young and fled before the wall came down but hey... the horror stories I heard about life ther... is enough to see through this kumbaja-bs.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Change is hard. We've known for a long time that petroleum is a limited resource and we'll have to change over to new technology sometime. Can you imagine a world stagnant with tech, using fossil fuels for thousands of years instead of harnessing renewable resources?

I don't like some changes either and we'll certainly have some bumps on the way but we'll have to work them out.

a reply to: Rich Z

The heated seats is just a trial balloon

yup

a reply to: InwardDiver

Oh I agree but we had electric cars before we had petrol ones and the petroleum industry came to dominate, now we are going back to electric cars, my point is that the modern tech is being abused and giving too much power and surveillance capability to the wrong people, if it was to protect people, keep children and woman safe fine but it never is it always and I mean always ends up being abused by the wrong sort for there own power.

originally posted by: lordcomac
But I think in 2016 they mandated so many computers the new cars are junk right off the lot.

I checked. Most of the crap can be removed. Costs you about $400.

If you're into Trucks, the Tundra was about as good as you could get in 2021. Chip shortage messed up deliveries. If you want one, you might be able to keep your eyes open. Ought'a last you until gasoline is a distant memory. "Hey!! Remember those places we used to call gas stations?"

a reply to: InwardDiver yes it is a limited supply but that is not as limited as they lead us to believe . There will be supplies to make car gas for hundreds of more Year's In USA alone. This so called global warming/ climate change is really just away for a few to try to control the many. 30 years ago they forecast by 2020 the coast of my state would move from morehead city to kinston, nc flooding everything between two locations. Well guess what those climate scientists were full of bs then and still are because coast is still at morehead city and eastern side of state has not collapsed under the waves.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Speaking of alternatives, bio-diesel, like Hemp bio-diesel is carbon neutral. Hell, Henry Ford made car made out of 'Hemp steel' (not actually steel but extremely strong) that ran on Hemp biofuel in the early 1900s.

and farm equipment from that time ran largely on biofuels.

the way Hemp produces biofuel and the way help grows and the carbon balance from growing the Hemp biofuel its a carbon neutral fuel.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I'm thinking perhaps a hybrid, a cross between feudalism and communism....a true nightmare.

originally posted by: Acknt
a reply to: LABTECH767

Speaking of alternatives, bio-diesel, like Hemp bio-diesel is carbon neutral. Hell, Henry Ford made car made out of 'Hemp steel' (not actually steel but extremely strong) that ran on Hemp biofuel in the early 1900s.

and farm equipment from that time ran largely on biofuels.

the way Hemp produces biofuel and the way help grows and the carbon balance from growing the Hemp biofuel its a carbon neutral fuel.

Hemp is truly a wonderous material that was Squashed by big money.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.forbes.com...


We can also thank John Deere. They possibly started this trend.

Steve Jobs started this. Bill Gates helped, but the idea of owning hardware but not what's in it is an Apple issue. Tesla also has done this. Its one of the core reasons I cut out Apple from my life as an IT guy over 10 years ago. When apple dumped Adobe Flash because it was free, I dumped Apple. Glad I did. They were one of the first big companies to push blatant censorship with their app store too.

The only way to go is going to be to learn how to gain root access to hardware, flash firmware, all that bologna. I'm talking on cars, dishwashers, all kinds of stuff 20 years from now. Especially if you like disabling microphones and cameras.