Divine or Demonic?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

So, I would say, that Christ tried to save our souls, eternal souls from the temptations of the adversary, and "selling" ones eternal soul.

How do you sell a soul?
Can I sell my soul to the non adversary and would that save me? Or should I just keep it for myself?

The story of Judas is one way, where he sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver, when he betrayed Jesus. He, in essence, sold his soul. Selling your morals, values to the highest bidder going against ones own integrity. Judas held the monetary gain above the value of his eternal soul.

Taking a blood oath can lead to one selling their souls for their own profit. Taking the oath in ignorance is not a spiritual death sentence, until, you agree to take part in the darker aspects of those groups. Even at that if one wakes up and tries to do the right thing in the end will probably get a reprieve.

I have spoken to people who were "Visited" in the night who were "Tempted" and asked if they would like to be good, or bad. The torment went on for awhile until one of them put their foot down and told the entity to go back to hell. Both said they chose good, but would you admit, you chose bad? One of them was a self proclaimed "Witch" of the wicans who was created and established by a Freemason. In other words, she scams people. She lied about her answer.

There seems to be another class of the soulless that involves genetic manipulations while in the womb that involves abductions. They don't necessarily sell their souls because they most likely are born without one.

Then you have "Soul Scalping" where its a ritual where the soul vacates the body via a, at least it appears to be a parasitic infection that causes the body to die, liberating the soul, then reanimating.

All debatable, I agree. But the one thing that seems to be a constant is, humanity has not been warned sufficiently the powers and abilities of the "Adversary(s)".

Selling ones soul is a act of treason to the spiritual reality...

a reply to: Terpene

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. Yea they believe in the intelligent design.
Freud was one. Then the psychologists who went over the research the last 100 years.
That’s the thinking that to becoming a scientist puts your mind set that you are to use facts and concrete evidence to to support your conclusions.
Yes basing your conclusions on set parameters limits your thinking, like being able to think outside the box.

a reply to: Terpene

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. Yea they believe in the intelligent design.
Freud was one. Then the psychologists who went over the research the last 100 years.
That’s the thinking that to becoming a scientist puts your mind set that you are to use facts and concrete evidence to to support your conclusions.
Yes basing your conclusions on set parameters limits your thinking, like being able to think outside the box.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

(I'm going to reply to two of your posts, this one and the next, to save space.)

Jesus, the Christ was not accepted like everyone imagines. He taught many things that were in conflict with the scriptures of the old testament.

Agreed, but with one caveat: Jesus did not teach things that were in conflict with the Old testament; He taught things that were in conflict with man's false interpretation of the Old Testament. He fought the organized religion of the day, the self-righteous hierarchy, as you say.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

The story of Judas is one way, where he sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver, when he betrayed Jesus. He, in essence, sold his soul. Selling your morals, values to the highest bidder going against ones own integrity. Judas held the monetary gain above the value of his eternal soul.

Now THAT intrigues me! I have long heard about the "spirit" and the "soul," but never really understood the exact difference. Your explanation of how one can sell their soul for money a'la Judas makes much sense to that question.

I need to consider this. I sense wisdom in your statements.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Jesus did not teach things that were in conflict with the Old testament; He taught things that were in conflict with man's false interpretation of the Old Testament. He fought the organized religion of the day, the self-righteous hierarchy, as you say.

First I would like to say, thank you. In the heat of the battle one can loose his place and not realize he may be fighting the very ones who are there to fight with him. But, the reverse is also true.

I have come to the conclusion that the "Bible" both old and new, should be viewed as history books take out of the original context, and timelines. But in saying that I have found to contain many truths when viewed in that light.

Recently discovered ancient writings confirm my above statement. The Old testament is a condensed, simplified version of the discovered writings, and that many, pre date the flood. Given the amount of time that had passed, ignorance of man, and to include actions of the Adversaries, many things have been put into incorrect context. Or as you say " man's false interpretation". They were encouraged to, get it wrong.

Yes, religions sprung up to have mankind submit to the god's. The original gods who never went anywhere, except into hiding. Using misguided people, secret societies to continue their rule over this planet. Religions were, and are at the basis of this "Institutional" control program, where you are encouraged to use faith and hope to substitute for thought and conformation. Religion, verses Science. Division and infighting.

The god of the old testament is a consolidation of the ancient gods, simply put. The God of the New Testament, is the Divine Creator, who created all, and has been under constant attack by the adversaries.

Admittedly, all this information would be impossible to "teach" to a people who were brainwashed for thousands of years, and to what end could someone reasonably expect to change the world?

Now to go just a bit deeper. Without going into very deep detail, the whole of the earth was effected by the flood. Even that place Jesus was said to hail from, the perfect generation. It would be wonderful to know what Jesus knew, and possibly, what was even hidden from him... Was that the perfect generation because they knew it, or, because they were told....

I believe the difference between the spirit, and the soul is, the soul is individually ours. The "spirit" is the collective, of all of our souls ......

I pray........................

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

First I would like to say, thank you. In the heat of the battle one can loose his place and not realize he may be fighting the very ones who are there to fight with him. But, the reverse is also true.

That is very true. And likely, it is one of the things that allowed for that misinterpretation to succeed as much as it has.

I'm not sure I can agree with the Old Testament God being an amalgamation; I do believe the Old Testament was grossly misinterpreted over the years. A few verses to illustrate my point:

Genesis 3:14-19

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

This is what God said after Adam ate the forbidden fruit. Now, theology may say that God cursed all three, the serpent, Adam, and Eve... but Genesis does not say that. God specifically curses the serpent, but then He explains the consequences to Adam and Eve. God also did not send them from the Garden of Eden as a punishment, but as a necessity... the Bible explains that clearly, that God could not have man living forever after they attained the knowledge of good and evil.

The difference in the Hebrew tongue between one doing something directly or one allowing a thing to be done is a very fine line, much finer than we are used to today. Today, we see a wide gulf between someone actually and intentionally doing an act themselves and someone not directly preventing an act to be done. Today, not so much. In those days, one who stood by while someone robbed a bank despite having the power to prevent it could be said to have robbed the bank, because they did not prevent it when it was in their power... today, we call that person an "innocent bystander." That has become ingrained into our culture.

I don't pretend to know all they whys and what-fors involved here; only what the Bible specifically says. It says the serpent, and only the serpent, was cursed by God; man cursed himself and God explained it to him.

That's a good example IMO of the mistranslations that have entered into religion over the ages.



Pre-flood... oh, that is a subject filled with tons of speculation! It has to be... the flood destroyed pretty much everything that had existed. Almost... some believe the location of the Garden of Eden has been found under the waters of the Persian Gulf. It sounds reasonable to me based on the description in the Bible, but then again, reasonable is a far cry from certainty.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Pre-flood... oh, that is a subject filled with tons of speculation! It has to be... the flood destroyed pretty much everything that had existed. Almost... some believe the location of the Garden of Eden has been found under the waters of the Persian Gulf. It sounds reasonable to me based on the description in the Bible, but then again, reasonable is a far cry from certainty.

Again, those pre flood records tell a story, in some detail, about pre flood life. And go into great detail about "The Powers that be". Most of these records have not seen the light of day or been re written, since the great flood debris buried them. They, are original, and, written in quite literally, stone. If you are a juror listening to testimony you want first hand accounts of the events, as close to the event as possible. You would prefer first hand accounts of events over second, third, or in the Bibles case, thousands of years, after the events. You want original source material to make your decisions.

These records speak of "gods" who ruled over the world, and man was merely a slave who was expected to worship these gods, and to sacrifice his life as required. Again, as I said, there are many truths in the Bible, when viewed in this light. The Bible itself confirms these gods were real. Why would it be necessary to warn the people away from other gods, if, they were not a reality???

1And God spoke all these words:

2“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3You shall have no other gods before Me.a

4You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You shall not bow down to them? The pre flood records tell you who "They" are.

Slaves are not educated and kept ignorant from truths, facts, that could lead to their freedom. "Knowledge is Power". This god may have freed the physical slaves from their ancient gods, but he didn't liberate them with a education, and in fact, enslaved them to himself, only.

In those ancient records one of those gods says that the "secrets of heaven and earth will not be shared with mankind". This area is wide open to speculation as to what those secrets may be. I personally am satisfied that I have found them. But, if you read that passage above, it tells you where to look. And when you do, you can see the light...............

Thank you for your reply's

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Oh, antediluvian life was much, much different than life today; that much seems obvious to me. Humans lived for hundreds of years instead of tens of years, ad the Bible even states that prior to the flood there had been no rain. There are scientific theories that explain how all this is possible, but I won't start that discussion here. I fear it may bore others.

Any spiritual being can be a god (small 'g'). Indeed, man may make his own god if he chooses, out of almost anything. Even today we have many who worship money as their god; others worship self as a god. When Moses received the Ten Commandments, he returned from the mountaintop and found the people worshiping a golden calf statue they had made. It got him so angry, he broke the tablets and had to go back for another set. I have often wondered at how that conversation went.

God: "Moses? Why have you returned?"
Moses: "I... ummm... I broke the tablets you made."
God: *sigh* "OK, but be more careful this time. I didn't make them so you could go falling down with them. You could hurt yourself like that."
Moses: "Well... I didn't exactly... fall down."
God: "Oh?"
Moses: "I kinda... threw... them down."
God: "Why would you do that?"
Moses: "The people were worshiping this golden calf they made when I got back, and it angered me."
God: "They broke the first commandment before you even made it back?"
Moses: "I'm afraid so."
God: "Would you like me to smite them for you? Maybe a few boils on their noses?"
Moses: "No, no, thank you God, but no. I got this."
God: "Well, if you say so..."

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Terpene
...
I frequently hear Christians say the Vatican can’t be trusted, which leaves us with a big dilemma, which is there is no authority to which we could turn.

The Bible should always be the final authority on matters of theological truth. No private interpretation needed. It states things clearly and tells a person everything they need to know* to determin who is antichrist (against Christ, not a specific individual).

*: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16,17)

“So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place (until day dawns and a daystar rises) in your hearts. For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved* by holy spirit.” (2 Peter 1:19-21)

Three 16th-Century Truth Seekers​—What Did They Find?

...
“LET THE BIBLE . . . ALWAYS RULE SUPREME”

Wolfgang Capito was a young man with deep religious convictions. A student of medicine, law, and theology, Capito became a parish priest in 1512 and then chaplain to the archbishop of Mainz.

At first, Capito tried to soften the zeal of Reformers who preached a message contrary to Catholic dogma. Soon, however, Capito himself began to advocate reform. What did he do? When confronted with various teachings, Capito believed that “the best source with which to judge their preaching was the Bible, for only it was certain,” writes historian James M. Kittelson. Capito thus concluded that the church teachings on transubstantiation and the veneration of saints were unscriptural. (See the box “ See Whether These Things Were So.”) ...

...

Capito believed that the Bible was the source of truth. “Let the Bible and the law of Christ always rule supreme in theology,” he stated. According to Dr. Kittelson, Capito “insisted that the chief failing of the scholastic theologians lay in their neglect of the Scriptures.”

...

Is the Bible Open to Just Any Interpretation?

Let Scripture interpret Scripture:

Antichrist (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Definition: Antichrist means against or instead of Christ. The term applies to all who deny what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, all who oppose his Kingdom, and all who mistreat his followers. It also includes individuals, organizations, and nations that falsely claim to represent Christ or that improperly ascribe to themselves the role of Messiah.

Does the Bible refer to only one antichrist?

1 John 2:18: “Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.”

2 John 7: “Many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (Notice that the “many antichrists” of 1 John 2:18 are here referred to collectively as “the antichrist.”)

An example of how one can qualify as a person “not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh” is discussed below under #1 (at 0:46):

Thirty Identifying Marks of False Christian Religions (playlist)

Is the coming of the antichrist reserved for some future time?

1 John 4:3: “Every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s inspired expression which you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.” (That was written near the end of the first century C.E.)

1 John 2:18: “Even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.” (By “last hour” John evidently meant the end of the apostolic period. The other apostles had died, and John himself was very old.)

Some of those identified as antichrist—

Persons who deny that Jesus is truly the Messiah

1 John 2:22: “Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ [or, Messiah, anointed one]? This is the antichrist.”

All who deny that Jesus is the unique Son of God

1 John 2:22: “This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son.”

Compare John 10:36; Luke 9:35.

Apostates

1 John 2:18, 19: “There have come to be many antichrists . . . They went out from us, but they were not of our sort.”

Those who oppose Christ’s true followers

John 15:20, 21: “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also . . . But they will do all these things against you on account of my name.”

Individuals and nations that oppose Christ as King or that themselves falsely claim the Messianic role

Ps. 2:2: “The kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one [Christ, or Messiah].”

See also Revelation 17:3, 12-14; 19:11-21.

Matt. 24:24: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

More info:

Antichrist (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1)

... First John 2:18 states: “Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist [Gr., an·tiʹkhri·stos] is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.” John’s statement shows that there are many individual antichrists, though all together they may form a composite person designated “the antichrist.” (2Jo 7) The use of the expression “hour” as referring to a period of time, either relatively brief or of undetermined length, is exemplified in other writings of John. (See Joh 2:4; 4:21-23; 5:25, 28; 7:30; 8:20; 12:23, 27.) He thus did not restrict the appearance, existence, and activity of such antichrist to some future time only but showed that the antichrist was then present and would continue on.​—1Jo 4:3.

Identification. Although there has been much effort in the past to identify “the antichrist” with an individual, such as Pompey, Nero, or Muhammad (this latter person being suggested by Pope Innocent III in 1213 C.E.), or with a specific organization, as in the Protestant view of “the antichrist” as applying to the papacy, John’s inspired statements show the term to be broad in its application, embracing all those who deny that “Jesus is the Christ,” and who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.”​—1Jo 2:22; 4:2, 3; 2Jo 7, NE, NIV; compare Joh 8:42, 48, 49; 9:22.

Denial of Jesus as the Christ and as the Son of God of necessity embraces the denial of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning him: his origin, his place in God’s arrangement, his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures as the promised Messiah, his ministry and teachings and prophecies, as well as any opposition to or efforts to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King. This is evident from other texts, which, while not using the term “antichrist,” express essentially the same idea. Thus, Jesus stated: “He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters.” (Lu 11:23) Second John 7 shows that such ones might act as deceivers, and hence the “antichrist” would include those who are “false Christs” and “false prophets,” as well as those who perform powerful works in Jesus’ name and yet are classed by him as “workers of lawlessness.”​—Mt 24:24; 7:15, 22, 23.

...