Who betrayed Anne Frank?

a reply to: Djarums

Wow dude. Basically proving his point.

VOLTAIRE - ‘TO LEARN WHO RULES OVER YOU, SIMPLY FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE’

a reply to: booyakasha

That'll do kid.

Anyone else?

Edit to add:

Voltaire never said that you ignorant Nazi pissant.

Get an education.

a reply to: halfoldman

There are several suspects, one is indeed a Jewish man whom it was claimed did so in order to try to save thousands of other Jews but that is still just a theory by a Canadian researcher whom only came to that idea over half a century after the event's so how accurate is it based on a paper trail that would almost definitely be missing pieces.

Another is that it was someone in the neighbourhood whom suspected the family at the address of harbouring people, maybe they had an axe to grind with the family that sheltered them or maybe they knew there were Jew's in there and did so out of anti Semitism though knowing the Dutch I doubt this.

The truth is we shall never know for certain.


But it shows the NAZI's for what they were Baby bayonet tossing child murdering lunatic's whom lived up to every bit of the anti Hun propaganda of the first world war and then went even further into evil.

a reply to: Djarums
Was he redmorgan as well you think?
booyoasser whatever?

a reply to: TDawg61

First nazi had a 2021 reg date. Second one had a 2005 reg date.

If that was the same guy that would be pretty stupid to sacrifice a 17 year old account for something you know is gonna get you banned.

Then again, as you can see from the fake Voltaire quote used solely on bigot sites the boy ain't bright.

a reply to: TDawg61
Not from what I know about both reading, different writing styles and some differing opinions.

It should not matter. I think no one has a problem with questioning single details but I know people like these from a German board that also constantly has to fend them off. It's disgusting how 5.8-6.1 million deaths can be questioned like this.

And these are only the official numbers for the Jewish victim, there are a lot of other groups not accounted for in the official numbers. I visited both Dachau and Auschwitz and stood inside the gas chamber in Dachau, right next to the crematorium in the back of the area, hidden behind the barracks by trees.

The place makes one heavy to breath, some places like the execution wall it felt like everyone was picking up the dread about this place. I saw bones and heard stories that would give some on the more fainter side of life nightmares.

And yeah I totally recommend the two books for anyone interested. The 5 book 700-900 page Ralf Isau Circle Of The Dawn series is at times also heavy to digest around WW2 time but the story is fictional, the details are not. I even wrote an email back then to him asking if there will be a 6th book or something that would join some loose ends and even got an answer from the author (no). Well I guess I had the kid-bonus and it was AOL times!

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

It is always interesting to me how, when one objects to the idea of what occurred during the Holocaust, they always object to the idea that Jews were one of the groups sent to be cleansed. No one ever seems blink an eye at the idea that political prisoners, gypsies, LGBT, and mental/physical "defectives" were among the other groups who were also sent to the camps to be cleansed in like manner. That always seems to be readily accepted when you would think one would be more inclined to resist the idea of smaller groups of people being slaughtered as they would be easier to lose among the larger groups.

a reply to: ketsuko
Yes that is something I noticed too. I do get the impression that for them it works like this:

Once the murdering of the Jewish people is "debunked", the rest is peanuts. Sort of like this.

I had to read the wildest stuff really. The sub forum I roam is mainly about blacksun, not because I subscribe to their ideas but I live near the Black Forest and kind of picking up research about that topic, the symbols and the mindset because there is a link much older than WW2 that goes back way into times in history.

And that forum is outspoken against any kind of racism or national socialism but for pure research on other topics too, but you still get the frequent peeps that spout nonsense like that REDMORGAN. That board is not as active as ATS so it can take a day or two. Here it took literal seconds and no alert at all.

Thank you Djarums again. That was like the thunder after lightning, could not go much faster.

And when the first diaries of Ms. Frank were published, the first queer activists said, she was a lesbian.
Here I'm not so convinced.
Although at least at the time (first published 1950), the text hit the sexual revolution.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Isn’t there another book that talks about who wore these shoes that talks about the identities of children that perished in one Of the camps during the same period? The shoes are apparently on display in the museum.

a reply to: Brotherman

I don't know about that one but I know about the shoes. Yes some parents got the identity of their kids inside the shoes by stuffing documents in there. Not to identify the living children because they were gassed, all of them.

To identify who those shoes belong to. There are several ideas as to why. Don't forget these were all fellow countrymen mostly. Imagine that you and your family is about to being killed what would you do, if you were kept in the mindset that your fellow countrymen are wanting / supporting / silently supporting this. The possibility with the refurbishing during the war times, would be that another child would wear these shoes eventually.

It's only one possibility and there are other ideas out there, I don't claim any validity to the example. And shoes were one of the most important personal clothing in these camps. Gravel and winter.

I forgot a lot from these trips, too. We spent there two days, one day in each camp and it was a very emotional trip, we were 15-17 year olds. Some pictures I still have vividly like standing inside the gas chamber I could draw you a picture right now. Yes these were really showers. With metal doors and on the inside you could see the scratches from human finger nails. It hits me hard writing this, as you see it is a very serious and emotional topic for me.

Hearing it or reading it is one thing but to see the evidence yourself, that's like a punch into the stomach and a hit into the face while strangling your throat at the same time. Even remembering now still makes me breath not easy. I could share more but I am sure that's enough for now and lot's of it can be read online or in books.

I am sorry that I can not share more but it rips me apart.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

When I was overseas a number of years ago I vaguely remember starting to read a ww2 camp era book about the shoes but the book got lost thought maybe you would know which one. It was a hand me down book so it was already missing it’s cover when I acquired it.

a reply to: Brotherman

Let me speak to a librarian that I think could help with this.

Was it English or German, I guess English? Any other hints, how old it was? How thick, like 100 pages, 400 pages, an inch. Anything like that and there is a chance she either can give me a list with book names or with a lot of luck, has a database entry about it being in a library somewhere, able to be either lend or taken out to the reading room, some are even on microfilm.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

It was a couple hundred pages with pictures and I’d guess it was more modern like the 1990s. Like I said it was about the identity of these kids and the research involved in telling their stories. It did talk about some of them having things like documents and even family jewelry hidden in the shoes. But alas I didn’t get to far into it and that was a long time ago and yes was in engrish 😬 I don’t speak German unfortunately

I can recommend reading Maus by Art Spiegelman , it is a graphic novel based on his fathers time during the holocaust.

I think it is important to keep these stories alive so we may never witness such horrors again.

The issue of "Freedom of Speech" on ATS

a reply to: Britguy

Holocaust denial is an extremely sensitive subject and ATS doesn't need to be tarnished with it.

There are plenty of other places on the web to discuss it if one so wishes.

a reply to: TheGreazel
Spiegelman's mother killed herself, and him he asked about the camps?

BOOH!

The biggest fright of your life, every minute.

F@uci

a reply to: Britguy
Sure. Sure and I am not the mod but the one that was discussing with that ex member. It's a pest that poisons every well, you don't want ATS to be associated with this. The simple opinion you think it is, is mocking millions of dead people, starved and worked near death just to either die from that or get gassed or worse, sent to Dr. Mengele's little experimental lab.

From someone that probably has very little clue about WW2 besides the typical documentations about it. This is not simply questioning the "official narrative", it's more than disrespectful.

There is nothing to question here, go to Dachau it's a three hour flight from your place. Land in Munich and rent a car, drive to Dachau. Then come back and let's see if you would not support this decision then. I get it principles but exemptions solidify the rule.

I get the optics but here 6 million dead people win over the right of someones free speech when it's about denouncing them. That's just my opinion because I am very close to the history. I won't judge you not being able to see it. Go to Dachau and Auschwitz, looking at pictures isn't enough.