NCAA changes transgender athlete participation policy amid calls for reevaluation

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Madviking

It went off the rails as soon as we went from championing the group that said they could only ever be attracted to people of the same biological sex as themselves and they were born that way to championing the people who said their brains believed they were a different gender then the biological sex they were born as and that difference was paramount in importance so everyone had to pretend their biological selves weren't what they were.

They even go so far as to demand that the gays and lesbians play along which runs counter to what the gays and lesbians claim as their orientation.

At least gays and lesbians operate in the same physical reality as the rest of us.

Right, I think a major mistake was merging these two movements together. Many lesbians and gays feel this way, although increasingly quietly. So-called TERF's (Trans-exclusionary radical feminists) don't believe that trans are part of the feminism or gender rights movement, and are lambasted regularly as evil by the trans-aligned LGBT groups.

There are some rare genetic and chromosomal disorders, and even multiple sex organs, but this is in a minute percentage of the population. There's also genuine gender dysphoria, which is in a larger yet still small population.

Early civil rights, social justice, and feminism sought in part to end gender stereotypes and roles.

Why is it that in this new gender world, if a person born as one sex/gender states that they relate to stereotypes of the other sex/gender (for example a man that is effiminate or a woman who likes all boys stuff), this must mean they are born transgender and it's some essential identity? If stereotypes about men and women are false and social constructs, then it stands to reason that some men would appreciate certain things about traditional female roles or characteristics, and vice versa.

Why do so many of these en vogue trans people cite iconic gendered stereotypes as how "they just knew they were always really X gender?" It's actually really lacking in critical thinking. How did we get here?

To the degree that the trans movement assigns a trans identity to someone who aligns with these roles and characteristics, is the degree to which they retreat into traditional gender stereotypes and roles. Which, anyone thinking clearly, knows doesn't match the goals of very recent liberalism and social justice..

a reply to: Madviking

Ah, and this is why we tell our son there are no boy things or girl things just things people like to do, and if he is interested in something, he ought to try it even if he walks in and there are only girls there. It doesn't mean he's a girl; it just means he's interested in something unusual for a boy which is in no way wrong. Dare to be different.

Yeah, just like tom boys. And often, people outgrow things too. A girl can be straight and like Gi Joes, trucks, and guns. It doesn't even make someone "gay."

a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: ketsuko
One of my friends daughters, pretends/identifies that she's a boy, and dates..a boy. It leaves me somewhat confused

I won't lie. I am so, so glad I am not growing up in these times. I likely would have had my own head twisted far, far around as a tomboy who often resented being asked to be more ladylike. Who knows where I might turn out? But today I am very happy being a woman.

I'm glad I have no kids, well, not glad but..relieved I guess. Bittersweet, as I have no idea what the future holds. I worry for my niece and nephew.

originally posted by: Madviking
Yeah, just like tom boys. And often, people outgrow things too. A girl can be straight and like Gi Joes, trucks, and guns. It doesn't even make someone "gay."

a reply to: ketsuko

You don't need to tell me that. I asked for Star Wars every year instead of dolls.

I feel at times like a lot of this need to gender identify and categorize is just another way to make the girls be girls and the boys be boys if you know what I mean. If little Timmy wants to style hair then it logically follows his gender identity is not masculine because the stereotypes don't fit.

Right, it's almost reinstituting the very same gender stereotypes they were claiming to fight for so long. I have whiplash.





a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: Madviking

HOWEVER, one of the teachings of the new left and gender ideology that is totally irrational and anti-science is that there are zero scientific, physical differences between the sexes. They believe that the differences are all socially constructed.

My wang was socially constructed?

Nice job, but, nuh uh.

People just need to tell the truth and all this bs will go away. If you are a male and you want to be treated like a female just say so. Don't try to tell me you ARE a female. Insulting my intelligence will not get me on your side. It will only make me believe you are delusional. You have the right to ask to be treated however you want. And I have the right to agree to play along or not. Maybe I will, or maybe I don't want to be the enabler in your little delusion today.

If your happiness depends on whether I play along with your delusion or not, you are gonna be unhappy for very long freaking time. You need to stop worrying about how I see you and start looking more closely at who you really are.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: ketsuko
One of my friends daughters, pretends/identifies that she's a boy, and dates..a boy. It leaves me somewhat confused

Working at a university in the performing arts, I see a lot of individuals who identify with the they/them pronouns or identify with gendered pronouns opposite their born gender/sex.
Which fine, respect everyone for themselves.

But I hear what you are saying. I have some professional friends, that when I met them were in a hetero relationship. At some point the man (broken home, other issues, but a good person, and a good worker), now identifies as a woman, and because of this their partner now is a lesbian (by her own statements). There has been no move for gender reassignment, no qualms the identifying as woman about being topless.

One of my them/their students gendered another of my them/their students and was aghast upon realizing it. I reminded them as long as we try our best if we slip up, things happen.

I saw today, another friend who has a teen who identifies as gender neutral is looking for vocal training to present as more neutral.

Again, respect everyone for themself. But if the community cannot keep it straight, and if it is diluting what it means to be a lesbian (a community I've been appreciated in as an ally since '97 if not before), then I question how I can get behind the "movement." I can always support an individual.

originally posted by: Madviking
In 4th wave (i think we are in 4th wave now) feminism, trans>women's rights and cis-gender humans including naturally born women are fascists. You're welcome.

a reply to: xuenchen

We've gone beyond waves. It's been a tsunami of Clown World lately. Honestly I feel bad for my youngest son(8) growing up in this scenario. My oldest(22) thankfully wasn't being brainwashed and indoctrinated his whole life. This will only end when sane people make a stand. If we remain quiet and allow it to continue, it will only get worse rest assured.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme
It can be confusing..lol

My nephew came out as gay a few years back, I guess he would of been 17-18, pretty striaghtforward for him, he just announced it, and that was that, sure, ok! no one would know otherwise, he is not seeking the attention. Sometimes I think it is about seeking attention.

My niece, about 6 months after the nephew came out, decided that she was lesbian, she was 14-15. I didn't believe it for a minute. She was seeking attention, and that about how it turned out, as she likes boys now. There was a lot of gender stuff going on in school, I think that may encourage kids sometimes. I dunno, live and let live, I just find it weird. I do draw the line at the serious competitive sports thing, and while I'm respectful, I'm not going to entertain with the pronoun crap.

a reply to: Madviking

Early civil rights, social justice, and feminism sought in part to end gender stereotypes and roles.

Why is it that in this new gender world, if a person born as one sex/gender states that they relate to stereotypes of the other sex/gender (for example a man that is effiminate or a woman who likes all boys stuff), this must mean they are born transgender and it's some essential identity? If stereotypes about men and women are false and social constructs, then it stands to reason that some men would appreciate certain things about traditional female roles or characteristics, and vice versa.

An excellent point.

There is a difference between the sexes, I have never heard of a woman transition into male, Then go and dominate men's sports. It is always male to female dominating female sports.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Yeah, but I don't feel like it's even that. I feel like it's the new version of putting women back in the kitchen and boys out working on their cars, except they're trying to rewrite reality because they've finally given up on the neat idea of biology doing it for them.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Yes it is. My husband and I are like that in some ways. He prefers to cook. I am the aggressive, competitive one. But no one mistakes him for a woman or me for a man. I can and do take charge when needed but much prefer to let him handle most things as head of household.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

NCAA took the cowards way out and said they would evaluate on a case by case basis

Doesn't this mean that they will weed out the fake trans people who just want to game they system?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
The NCAA, alongside all of this country, needs sorely to stop placating the mentally ill and re-embrace sanity... I won't hold my breath for that top happen, however, as we're clearly in the era of mental illness being a heralded incidence and placating it being a virtue.

The "C" in NCAA stands for Collegiate. Who's on the front of pushing for this bullsh*t Colleges and Universities. They know where their bread is buttered.

Meh
One of these will get NIL money then it will be on.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

No. It means they are taking the cowards way out. If the national governing body for competitive swimming decides, for example, that someone like Lia Thomas fits their criteria, or *they* defer to the IOC who decides someone like Lia Thomas does, then the NCAA can look at the angry women swimmers, make soothing mouth noises about diversity, inclusion, and fairness and point at the other body as the source of the ladies' angst.

On the inverse, should the ladder work it's way up and that body decide against people like Thomas, the NCAA does the same thing when Thomas and her angry cohort comes to them to complain.

See how it that works?

And when they say cade by case, they just mean sport by sport, meaning the Lia Thomas of swimming might be handled differently by her governing bodies than the Lua Thomas of wrestling or the Lia Thomas of tennis.

Keep on with the plan lads, soon we will dominate ALL women's sports!

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

NCAA took the cowards way out and said they would evaluate on a case by case basis

Doesn't this mean that they will weed out the fake trans people who just want to game they system?

No, case by case means sport by sport. So you're not a real woman if you swim, but you might be if you lift weights.