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New CDC study states natural immunity was superior to vaccines for protection from Delta
page: 1share:
Let's review a few recent studies specifically regarding Covid 19 and naturally acquired immunity:
www.reuters.com...
ijr.com...
www.israelnationalnews.com...
-----------------
For the past 1-2 years, the "Follow the Science" crowd, mainstream media, and many politicians have flat out denied the existence of recovery from Covid 19 and naturally-acquired immunity. They have narrated a false binary of the virtuous vaccinated versus the ignorant, evil, and endangered unvaccinated. Not only this, but the mandates authored by the Biden administration and many employers or schools flat out fail to acknowledge any exemption for natural immunity. Social media tech companies have often censored or "fact checked" any claims to the contrary.
The reality is, it is not a binary. There are really four main groups:
1) Unvaccinated with no exposure to and recovery from Covid
2) Unvaccinated with exposure to and recovery from Covid
3) Vaccinated with no exposure to and recovery from Covid
4) Vaccinated with exposure to and recovery from Covid
Let us review a few key facts here for posterity:
1) Naturally-acquired immunity is our natural immune response to exposure to and recovery from various diseases. It obviously is not identical for every disease or virus.
2) Until the development of modern immunology and vaccines, naturally acquired immunity was the ONLY way people acquired immunity. Immunity didn't magically start with the advent of modern vaccines, contrary to what many imply.
3) Generally speaking, vaccines are intended to mimic the process of natural immunity, without an individual having the risk of going through a live infection and any health impacts.
4) For most diseases, vaccination itself isn't any more effective. It simply eliminates the risk of infection or allows for boosters.
5) Herd immunity has always meant the percentage of the population that has immunity regardless of type, such that a given disease can no longer spread easily or effectively. That percentage depends on the characteristics of the disease.
A LOT of people in the media and commentators online or in real life appear to not grasp these basic facts. Many of us have been saying this for two years and deplatformed by social media and demonized as ignorant and dangerous. "Misinformation" they shrieked!
The utter failure of the Fauci camp and political leaders to acknowledge factual science that natural immunity exists, and allow exemptions at the very least for those with a proven recovery from Covid 19, proves to me that this isn't just about science, "stopping the spread," mitigating symptoms, or public health.
Moreover, they are failing to account for natural immunity in their vaccination target goals, which again must match the TOTAL immunity percentage not solely vaccination. The WHO during Covid went Orwellian and changed their own historic definition of herd immunity from natural + vaccinated immunity to solely vaccinated immunity.
www.abc10.com...
allswritewiththeworld.medium.com...
Add to this the fact that the vaccines are not preventing infection and transmission, and the mandates and narrative even more are in question.
www.reuters.com...
People who had previously been infected with COVID-19 were better protected against the Delta variant than those who were vaccinated alone, suggesting that natural immunity was a more potent shield than vaccines against that variant, California and New York health officials reported on Wednesday.
ijr.com...
A study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Wednesday shows that those who have recovered from COVID-19 have more protection against infection than those who have only been vaccinated.
Researchers reviewed data from California and New York from May to November, when the delta variant was dominant in the U.S.
The study looked at four groups of people: unvaccinated with no prior COVID-19 infection, vaccinated with no prior infection, unvaccinated who recovered from COVID-19, and vaccinated who recovered.
www.israelnationalnews.com...
Natural immunity that develops after SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably better protection against the "Delta variant" than does two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, an Israeli study found.
The study relies on data from Israel's Maccabi Health Services, and was conducted by researchers from Maccabi and Tel Aviv University. A preprint of the study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, was published last week on medRxiv.
According to Science Magazine, the study found that "never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus."
Further, "the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher."
"This analysis demonstrated that natural immunity affords longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization due to the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity," the authors wrote.
-----------------
For the past 1-2 years, the "Follow the Science" crowd, mainstream media, and many politicians have flat out denied the existence of recovery from Covid 19 and naturally-acquired immunity. They have narrated a false binary of the virtuous vaccinated versus the ignorant, evil, and endangered unvaccinated. Not only this, but the mandates authored by the Biden administration and many employers or schools flat out fail to acknowledge any exemption for natural immunity. Social media tech companies have often censored or "fact checked" any claims to the contrary.
The reality is, it is not a binary. There are really four main groups:
1) Unvaccinated with no exposure to and recovery from Covid
2) Unvaccinated with exposure to and recovery from Covid
3) Vaccinated with no exposure to and recovery from Covid
4) Vaccinated with exposure to and recovery from Covid
Let us review a few key facts here for posterity:
1) Naturally-acquired immunity is our natural immune response to exposure to and recovery from various diseases. It obviously is not identical for every disease or virus.
2) Until the development of modern immunology and vaccines, naturally acquired immunity was the ONLY way people acquired immunity. Immunity didn't magically start with the advent of modern vaccines, contrary to what many imply.
3) Generally speaking, vaccines are intended to mimic the process of natural immunity, without an individual having the risk of going through a live infection and any health impacts.
4) For most diseases, vaccination itself isn't any more effective. It simply eliminates the risk of infection or allows for boosters.
5) Herd immunity has always meant the percentage of the population that has immunity regardless of type, such that a given disease can no longer spread easily or effectively. That percentage depends on the characteristics of the disease.
A LOT of people in the media and commentators online or in real life appear to not grasp these basic facts. Many of us have been saying this for two years and deplatformed by social media and demonized as ignorant and dangerous. "Misinformation" they shrieked!
The utter failure of the Fauci camp and political leaders to acknowledge factual science that natural immunity exists, and allow exemptions at the very least for those with a proven recovery from Covid 19, proves to me that this isn't just about science, "stopping the spread," mitigating symptoms, or public health.
Moreover, they are failing to account for natural immunity in their vaccination target goals, which again must match the TOTAL immunity percentage not solely vaccination. The WHO during Covid went Orwellian and changed their own historic definition of herd immunity from natural + vaccinated immunity to solely vaccinated immunity.
www.abc10.com...
allswritewiththeworld.medium.com...
Add to this the fact that the vaccines are not preventing infection and transmission, and the mandates and narrative even more are in question.
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason
given)
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Madviking
You left out the part of the study that said:
"During the week beginning May 30, 2021, compared with COVID-19 case rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, COVID-19 case rates were 19.9-fold (California) and 18.4-fold (New York) lower among vaccinated persons without a previous diagnosis; rates were 7.2-fold (California) and 9.9-fold (New York) lower among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis and 9.6-fold (California) and 8.5-fold (New York) lower among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis"
Here's the actual study, not just the Reuters story:
www.cdc.gov... .%2071%2C%20January%2019%2C%202022&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM73434
The point of the story is that when the Alpha variant was dominant, vaccination was quite a bit more effective than natural immunity; I speculate that that's because the vaccines were developed from the Alpha variant. When the Delta variant became dominant, that changed such that natural immunity was stronger. The article cautions that we don't know yet what the situation is with the Omicron variant because it hasn't been around long enough. The situation might have changed back. Or not.
You can't just assume that natural immunity is always better than vaccination, or vice versa. You have to go with what the actual evidence says.
You left out the part of the study that said:
"During the week beginning May 30, 2021, compared with COVID-19 case rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, COVID-19 case rates were 19.9-fold (California) and 18.4-fold (New York) lower among vaccinated persons without a previous diagnosis; rates were 7.2-fold (California) and 9.9-fold (New York) lower among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis and 9.6-fold (California) and 8.5-fold (New York) lower among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis"
Here's the actual study, not just the Reuters story:
www.cdc.gov... .%2071%2C%20January%2019%2C%202022&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM73434
The point of the story is that when the Alpha variant was dominant, vaccination was quite a bit more effective than natural immunity; I speculate that that's because the vaccines were developed from the Alpha variant. When the Delta variant became dominant, that changed such that natural immunity was stronger. The article cautions that we don't know yet what the situation is with the Omicron variant because it hasn't been around long enough. The situation might have changed back. Or not.
You can't just assume that natural immunity is always better than vaccination, or vice versa. You have to go with what the actual evidence says.
a reply to: 1947boomer
I would speculate the evidence to support that is compiled in nursing homes dead corpses, if not then whatever covid is is contrived and managed quite diabolically.
I see "contrived specimens" in my ventures into researching this manufactured crisis all too often.
Beneficence reigns!
🙏❤
The point of the story is that when the Alpha variant was dominant, vaccination was quite a bit more effective than natural immunity; I speculate that that's because the vaccines were developed from the Alpha variant.
I would speculate the evidence to support that is compiled in nursing homes dead corpses, if not then whatever covid is is contrived and managed quite diabolically.
I see "contrived specimens" in my ventures into researching this manufactured crisis all too often.
Beneficence reigns!
🙏❤
a reply to: 1947boomer
I noted in my post that there are 4 groups, not 2, which is partly reflected in what you posted.
I'm not convinced that vaccination was superior for alpha too. Did they tease out the data sufficiently to assess that?
To even assess any of the data, the death counts have to be cleaned up, case counts etc. The covid death attributions alone are in question. 95% had 4 average comorbidities. Case counts may be wildly off too.
For the vaccinated, the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases in like May 2021. Only 50% of states independently attempted to track them. For people who got covid or even died within 3 weeks of getting their vaccine, they were counted as "Unvaccinated." All of this is deeply problematic for claiming vaccine efficacy.
There was a monolithic push to deny that natural immunity existed period, not that it existed but its relative efficacy was in question.
Let's examine another factor:
For low risk groups, Alpha survival rate was likely 99.9%. Now add in naturally acquired immunity after recovery. What is the survival rate for any reinfection? A reasonable guess is it is higher than 99.9%. Add more decimal places.
The narrative pre-covid was very different, which only underlines our concerns about politically or monetarily motivated narratives.
www.michigan.gov...
I noted in my post that there are 4 groups, not 2, which is partly reflected in what you posted.
I'm not convinced that vaccination was superior for alpha too. Did they tease out the data sufficiently to assess that?
To even assess any of the data, the death counts have to be cleaned up, case counts etc. The covid death attributions alone are in question. 95% had 4 average comorbidities. Case counts may be wildly off too.
For the vaccinated, the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases in like May 2021. Only 50% of states independently attempted to track them. For people who got covid or even died within 3 weeks of getting their vaccine, they were counted as "Unvaccinated." All of this is deeply problematic for claiming vaccine efficacy.
There was a monolithic push to deny that natural immunity existed period, not that it existed but its relative efficacy was in question.
Let's examine another factor:
For low risk groups, Alpha survival rate was likely 99.9%. Now add in naturally acquired immunity after recovery. What is the survival rate for any reinfection? A reasonable guess is it is higher than 99.9%. Add more decimal places.
The narrative pre-covid was very different, which only underlines our concerns about politically or monetarily motivated narratives.
www.michigan.gov...
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason
given)
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason
given)
We can go even deeper. Depending on how your vaccine is made, the immunity produced will vary in effectiveness too. Vaccines made with whole virus
will produce a better immune response than those made with only partial virus. So it stands to reason that the COVIS vax would not necessarily be
great.
Natural immunity has always been superior.
The vaxx creates 1 antibody, natural immunity creates over 20 antibodies as well as t cell immunity which by itself is arguably better than b cell antibodies.
Its common sense that natural immunity is far superior. The vaxx was garbage to begin with anyway.
The vaxx creates 1 antibody, natural immunity creates over 20 antibodies as well as t cell immunity which by itself is arguably better than b cell antibodies.
Its common sense that natural immunity is far superior. The vaxx was garbage to begin with anyway.
It also seems that these experimental MRNA vaccines aren't working as intended, or not to the desired level of efficacy. I think if they hadn't been
rushed through the approval cycle, including timeline, this would have been known prior to deployment.
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking
The vaccines worked extremely well for the virus they were developed for. If you notice, Delta is the variant in the article, which is not the original virus the vaccine was developed for.
That doesn't answer though the demonization and denial of natural immunity, from 2020 until now.
I've actually been saying myself that natural immunity is an equal alternative, which shouldn't be sought due to risks (especially for high risk groups), but once achieved should not be invalidated.
Also, if what you are saying is correct why are the media and politicians pushing mandates and "just get vaxxed" for the now obsolete vaccines? I get you agree that's political, but what gives?
I am absolutely pro choice here. People should get the vaccine if they wish, without coercion and with full informed consent. Informed consent is not the constant fear mongering and warped Covid narratives.
edit on 20-1-2022 by Madviking because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: ketsuko
We can go even deeper. Depending on how your vaccine is made, the immunity produced will vary in effectiveness too. Vaccines made with whole virus will produce a better immune response than those made with only partial virus. So it stands to reason that the COVIS vax would not necessarily be great.
Have you looked around: howbad.info... ?
a reply to: Madviking
Interesting the order they list. get covid first then vaccine for it to be the most effective protection.
LOL its like saying we found out that the best way to get the most drunk is by drinking 24 beers and then taking 2 glasses of water followed by a shot of orange juice. It was that 2 glasses and and shot of OJ that put you over the top. LMAO
New CDC study states natural immunity was superior to vaccines for protection from Delta
Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection
Interesting the order they list. get covid first then vaccine for it to be the most effective protection.
LOL its like saying we found out that the best way to get the most drunk is by drinking 24 beers and then taking 2 glasses of water followed by a shot of orange juice. It was that 2 glasses and and shot of OJ that put you over the top. LMAO
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