Mandated C19 Tests to Leave Isolation - This should be interesting..

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: chr0naut

What part of this is hard to comprehend?

the time, right? But that’s not actually what that number means. That 95% refers to the Relative Risk Reduction, but it doesn’t tell you how much your overall risk is reduced by vaccination. For that, we need Absolute Risk Reduction. In the Pfizer trial, 8 out of 18,198 people who were given the vaccine developed COVID-19. In the unvaccinated placebo group 162 people got it, which means that even without the vaccine, the risk of contracting COVID-19 was extremely low at 0.88%, which the vaccine then reduced to 0.4%. So the net benefit or the absolute risk reduction that you’re being offered with a Pfizer vaccine is 0.84%. That 95% number refers to the relative difference between 0.88% (unvaccinated) and 0.4% (vaccinated) (0.88 – 0.04). That’s what they call 95% Relative Risk Reduction. Relative Risk Reduction is well known to be a misleading number, which is why the FDA recommends using Absolute Risk Reduction instead, which begs the question of how many people would have chosen to take the COVID-19 vaccines had they understood that they offered less than 1% benefit?

Source

While the blog styled post isn't screaming expert or credibility to me they are sourcing the pfizer presentation so the slide is there as well as the data.

There is a lot of misleading stats being used to push the narrative as well as a lot of backhanded hiding of info and flat out lies in the media. Its obvious we are being played...sorry you haven't realized it yet and hopefully its not to your own detriment.

I believe the CDC used the same basis for the effectiveness measurements of the smallpox vaccine.

Aside from that, Absolute Risk Reduction suffers from the fact that it includes includes those who just have never been exposed to the virus, or already have an immunity, or are genetically or medically predisposed against the disease, and so therefore that doesn't tell you anything about how the vaccine may work (or not).

You can, for instance, vaccinate someone against a disease which they never get exposed to, and of course they'll never get the disease, but not because of the vaccination.

Relative Risk Reduction is a numerical fudge because we can't know if the measured results were due to the vaccine, or due to any one of a hundred variables which might lead to someone not getting obvious disease symptoms or testing positive.

Also, the fact that Israel measured 95% against against Alpha, and 93% against the delta strains, gives some confidence in Pfizer/CDC values.

Even with further reductions in effectiveness for the more infectious Delta and Omicron strains (and the potential for even more infectious recombinant strains), and Omicron in the process of becoming dominant, the reductions in serious outcomes based on case-load, illustrates the positive real-world effectiveness of the vaccines. Less effective, but still probably better than anything else yet.

originally posted by: Faeded
I am pretty sure vax effectiveness rate is now estimated 30-50 percent effective.

As pointed out previously by others, the relative reduction algorithm for calculating vaccine effectiveness may inflate the apparent values (but there is still good reason to use it), but the outcomes of most of the clinical studies continue to indicate effectiveness values in excess of 70%.

Additional to that, even if effectiveness were as low as 30%, that is still better than the 0% protective effect of not doing anything.

Maybe stop using remdesivir and inducing comas....might be a reason 2 out of 100 cases die...which by the way...
I am going to take a guess and say that 2 percent death lines up pretty close with icu cases and hospita stays

In 1st world countries all cases serious enough for ICU go to ICU, so there is likely to be a very high correlation.

However, in countries where hospital facilities have been overrun with cases beyond what they can handle, many die outside of ICU, the overall death tolls are significantly higher.

Deny all you want....only time wasted is yours in this forum.
I mean it not even a conspiracy motivated type mind...SO WHY DO INSIST on sticking around where you obviously DONT fit in?

reply to: chr0naut

There actually is a massive conspiracy going on, with all-pervasive misinformation, incredible levels of denial. And all the people who only a year ago were regarded as kooks, snake-oil purveyors, or charlatans are held up as authorities now?

The governing authorities, statistical, medical and healthcare people from multiple countries around the world are publishing the ONLY data on the situation, and yet absent any actual hard evidence, or measurables, people are falling for the inanities they got from the anonymous internet nobodies and lying memes.

originally posted by: Faeded
Ok genious...

Then what about all those that are vaxxxed and carriers?
Seems they would fall inline with asymptomatic eh?
Yet no restrictions ?
a reply to: chr0naut

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated? - NewScientist

And, as far as I know, many restrictions still apply, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

But the truth is that fewer of the vaccinated get the disease, and of those that are breakthrough cases, they are infectious for a shorter length of time and are 65% less likely to spread that infection.

Aside from that, what sort of reduction in infectiousness would you expect to get due to no vaccination?

LOL.

a reply to: chr0naut

So you are saying the math lies and it didn't give that 1% ish difference between saline and vaccine? I don't quite think you reach that level of proof in your post but sure...you do you. Meanwhile I'll be fine after having had it already before vaccines and eventhough being exposed multiple times since have yet to catch it again.

I don't know what camp this falls in, but I just got a call from my sister. She works in a fairly large hospital, and they just completely shut down her unit, with no specific time frame for reopening it.

Half the staff is out sick, supposedly with COVID, and they no way to keep the place safely running. They have made arrangements for other hospitals to take their patients.

Every member of the staff has been double vaccinated and boostered. It did not help them at all.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I got a text this evening from work. One of my coworkers is out with COVID, and another possibly has it. I'm fine, but we've been strongly advised to wear masks in the process room. I'm not sure how much I will tomorrow since the one coworker is the only other person who is regularly in that room with me during the morning at least. If I have the place to myself most of the time, I'm not sure how much wearing a mask is really going to be worth.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: VulcanWerks

This has actually been the norm in much of Europe since 2020.

Nothing big, nothing new. Just America behind the curve yet again.

And you think we in the US should catch up to the EU's level of Fascism , why ?
After all , history shows they were the breeding ground for that sort .
Germany , Italy , parts of Spain and France.....
No thank you .
Hopefully we will remain "behind the curve" , and maybe even "straighten the curve" out again .

There are no home tests available in stores, and there are no appointments available to have the tests administered.

The results of the mixed messaging from state and federal government will be more and more people not reporting their covid symptoms.

a reply to: dandandat2

Can confirm the same in Las Vegas and we have CES going on now...which is vaccination required...so you know there will be all kinds of people who feel safe and will end up getting others sick all over town.

originally posted by: dandandat2
There are no home tests available in stores, and there are no appointments available to have the tests administered.

The results of the mixed messaging from state and federal government will be more and more people not reporting their covid symptoms.

Why would you? I mean, honestly, why? Get tested with an unreliable test and come up positive and get stuck under house arrest for five days. Get stuck either shedding viral particles so your test comes up positive even if you're better or stuck unable to find a test when your five days are up so you languish under house arrest even longer ...

Why wouldn't you just do what most people have been doing forever - stay home when you don't feel well?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Faeded
Ok genious...

Then what about all those that are vaxxxed and carriers?
Seems they would fall inline with asymptomatic eh?
Yet no restrictions ?
a reply to: chr0naut

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated? - NewScientist

And, as far as I know, many restrictions still apply, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

But the truth is that fewer of the vaccinated get the disease, and of those that are breakthrough cases, they are infectious for a shorter length of time and are 65% less likely to spread that infection.

Aside from that, what sort of reduction in infectiousness would you expect to get due to no vaccination?

LOL.

So un like asymptomatic..no symptoms...
Breakthrough cases have symptoms and are less likely to spread the virus then unvaxed asympto right?

a reply to: Gothmog

I would add that the States gladly took all the bigshots, trough project paperclip. You guys got all the good stuff.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: VulcanWerks

It's quite simple and makes sense:

5 days quarantine works for the majority of people, but some people don't conform to the average and will incubate COVID-19 for longer periods.

As part of the reduction in length of quarantine (based on what we have learned about the normal disease progression, and for reason of not over-taxing resources), there should also be testing of those who may not have gotten over the disease, or who may still be asymptomatic carriers.

Testing may not be perfect, but it is enormously better than doing nothing at all and just hoping for the best.

I vote doing nothing at all.

hoping for the best is exactly what they are doing right now, faulty tests

All measurements have a margin of error, but that doesn't mean they are faulty.

, leaky injections

No vaccine is 100% effective forever. The Pfizer vaccine has a measured effectiveness of 95%. The best Smallpox vaccine also has a measured effectiveness of 95%, and it was enough to eliminate smallpox.

Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

the nazism

The Nazi's rounded up and exterminated about 6 million of people, in the space of three years, almost purely with 'race only' as a criteria.

Quarantining the sick, and maintaining reasonable disease control rules to prevent the spread of an infectious, and in some cases deadly disease, is nothing like what the Nazi's did.

, and now with the megatron variant, comes the question, how harmless a virus needs to be until we stop this psyop.

The psyop is the denial of the reality, and the umpteen excuses that are often contradictory to each other.

after 30 years have passed i will most likely still be laughing at this whole joke, then they will lower my social credit score but i do not care, just like now, i mean the flu? bring it on, i do not use fentanyl but even that has a higher chance of ending me.

So, you are a child.

Worldwide, nearly two out of every hundred cases of COVID-19, have died.

Deny all you want.

Smallpox has nothing to do with this because it is actually dangerous to healthy human beings.

Now they are harming all people equally, race does not matter. And quarantining "exposed" people.

I agree about the denial, so many are in denial right now, the more stupid this gets, it gets harder and harder to snap out of it because one has to admit the level of insanity regarding this matter.

Do not know why you must attempt to attack me on a personal level by calling me a child, but yeah, i am a child at heart at 33.

Do not throw your made up statistics at me, they mean nothing these days. Died of- vs died with- vs do not even test just marks as died of covid.

originally posted by: Faeded

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Faeded
Ok genious...

Then what about all those that are vaxxxed and carriers?
Seems they would fall inline with asymptomatic eh?
Yet no restrictions ?
a reply to: chr0naut

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated? - NewScientist

And, as far as I know, many restrictions still apply, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

But the truth is that fewer of the vaccinated get the disease, and of those that are breakthrough cases, they are infectious for a shorter length of time and are 65% less likely to spread that infection.

Aside from that, what sort of reduction in infectiousness would you expect to get due to no vaccination?

LOL.

So un like asymptomatic..no symptoms...
Breakthrough cases have symptoms and are less likely to spread the virus then unvaxed asympto right?

Not necessarily, you'd probably have to have some actual statistical support for that.

… or for anything, really.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dandandat2
There are no home tests available in stores, and there are no appointments available to have the tests administered.

The results of the mixed messaging from state and federal government will be more and more people not reporting their covid symptoms.

Why would you? I mean, honestly, why? Get tested with an unreliable test and come up positive and get stuck under house arrest for five days. Get stuck either shedding viral particles so your test comes up positive even if you're better or stuck unable to find a test when your five days are up so you languish under house arrest even longer ...

Why wouldn't you just do what most people have been doing forever - stay home when you don't feel well?

I think a lot of people will even choose not to reveal that they don't feel well; and wont "stay home if they don't feel well".

They wont want to put themselves in a position where someone (their employer or their school for example) will ask them to go get a test that doesn't exist.

originally posted by: Faeded
Ok genious...

Then what about all those that are vaxxxed and carriers?
Seems they would fall inline with asymptomatic eh?
Yet no restrictions ?
a reply to: chr0naut

no need for tests to know you are sick. is quarantine gonna cure it?

consider every one has it and get on with your life.

tulip mania, What is the meaning of tulip mania?
Definition of tulipomania

: an excessive fad or passion for acquiring or growing tulips specifically : such a mania prevailing in Holland about 1634 and accompanied by wild speculation in bulbs ultimately ended by governmental interference.
in our covid instance, the govt is not ending it.

it crashed the economy.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: GlobalGold


This is good News, at least it is starting. We need to manufacture our own supplies.

I personally don’t like the idea of buying tests from China, or masks for that matter.




I’ve been working through this entire pandemic, and these are some observations I’ve made about the pandemic:


Some people actually believe they cannot catch covid if they’ve been vaccinated, so they no longer wear masks.

Answer: Yes you absolutely can catch covid, and a mask (even if it is minimal can protect you even more).


Some people are just gross: no hand washing, blowing noses while at a register than proceeding to type their pin #’s in the keypads at registers. Throwing masks everywhere (usually the same idiots that bitch the loudest about climate change. Wearing masks under chins and coughing all over the place with no regard for others. Disgusting!!!

I talk to a lot of ER Drs and epidemiologists who deal with this daily. According to them the people who suffer the worst are people who smoke, diabetics, obesity, no vaccinations. They deal with patients after they catch it, I get to watch society on the daily before they catch it.

Another thing I’ve noticed is the hoarding. All the masks in the world are not going to protect you if you lick your fingers before touching things in public. People who have tested positive come back to the store to buy more tests (Hello, we offer curbside). Now I have to disinfect everywhere you have been.

Whether you believe in covid or not, it would be nice if people tried to be clean, not add to the problem, and stop standing so close to everybody!

Covid is real, and there will be more pandemics, it’s not a matter of if but when!

So to summarize: Enjoy every moment, be good to each other, be responsible, and educate yourselves for your own protection. ☮️

a reply to: VulcanWerks

On my last Biogen home antigen test, I wiped my dogs behind, the test was negative so I sent it in to my employer and I can now go back to work, LOL.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Faeded
I am pretty sure vax effectiveness rate is now estimated 30-50 percent effective.

As pointed out previously by others, the relative reduction algorithm for calculating vaccine effectiveness may inflate the apparent values (but there is still good reason to use it), but the outcomes of most of the clinical studies continue to indicate effectiveness values in excess of 70%.

Additional to that, even if effectiveness were as low as 30%, that is still better than the 0% protective effect of not doing anything.

Maybe stop using remdesivir and inducing comas....might be a reason 2 out of 100 cases die...which by the way...
I am going to take a guess and say that 2 percent death lines up pretty close with icu cases and hospita stays

In 1st world countries all cases serious enough for ICU go to ICU, so there is likely to be a very high correlation.

However, in countries where hospital facilities have been overrun with cases beyond what they can handle, many die outside of ICU, the overall death tolls are significantly higher.

Deny all you want....only time wasted is yours in this forum.
I mean it not even a conspiracy motivated type mind...SO WHY DO INSIST on sticking around where you obviously DONT fit in?

reply to: chr0naut

There actually is a massive conspiracy going on, with all-pervasive misinformation, incredible levels of denial. And all the people who only a year ago were regarded as kooks, snake-oil purveyors, or charlatans are held up as authorities now?

The governing authorities, statistical, medical and healthcare people from multiple countries around the world are publishing the ONLY data on the situation, and yet absent any actual hard evidence, or measurables, people are falling for the inanities they got from the anonymous internet nobodies and lying memes.

To be clear, I’m not a My Pillow Guy follower here.

That said, your point about the “ONLY data” is actually the entire problem.

These two points are enough for me to say “yeah - this isn’t as bad as we’ve made it out to be”.

- total cases globally are likely wildly greater (asymptomatic) than reported - which drives down the mortality rate.
- perverse incentives to pay hospital for COVID body count which starts to inflate death figures.

Also, Africa.

I’ve read the data. I like data. I think their data is fudged and politicized. You think it’s right. From there we won’t find much agreement because, like you, my stance stems from parsing the data taking more than the official figures into account - the why behind that data.

I’ve said from the beginning that COVID is a very real disease. So is the flu. I’ve also been vocal that the data doesn’t support the overwhelming majority of what we’ve done COVID wise.

In any case, I do appreciate your contributions to the thread!

I have a coworker stuck in COVID test jail. She doesn't even know if she has it, but she can't come back without the clean test. No kits anywhere and the soonest she can schedule is Thursday for a PCR which will take 2 days.