Behold! The Pale Horse of Revelation!

a reply to: jedi_hamster

What I'm trying to point out is that MAD will only serve as a deterrent if the attacker cares to survive. If the attackers is already suicidal, MAD simply does not serve as a deterrent.

The conflict between Israel and some of the Muslim nations surrounding it is not over resources or prejudice... it is religious in nature. In the eyes of the more religious sects in Iran, their own destruction would be welcomed if it also brought about the destruction of Israel. That is a foreign concept to most Westernized countries (including Israel), and hard for us to wrap our heads around. But that does not mean such an attitude does not exist.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, MAD was a tactic used by the USA and the USSR. The whole idea was that each one wanted to survive more than they wanted to destroy the other. By ensuring that one could not destroy the other without destroying themselves in the process, disaster was averted. But that tactic will not stand up in every location and every conflict.

TheRedneck

]Crowfoot[/post]
It's really weird when the motto is deny ignorance and concepts like GOD are the very delusional thought forms that give rise to such a phenomenon known simply as ignorance.


"It's a good thing" ~Martha Stewart


Uhhhhhh

What?

What do you expect from that profile pic? It's the same on FB

a reply to: TheRedneck

For the most part, the Muslims surrounding Israel are not that religiously insane.

I think this fight goes back to the story of Abraham where God promised him a son, and after years and years of waiting, Sarah finally convinced him to get a son on their servant woman Hagar. Then after Ishmael was born or conceived, along comes Isaac to Sarah.

Sarah gets jealous of Ishmael and gets Hagar and he sent away. God promises her that Ishmael will be the founder of many people, but that they will be a thorn in the side.

I think what we see in the Middle East is one of the oldest dysfunctional family quarrels on earth with religious roots.

The real issue will be if you have Muslims take over who believe in the End Times prophecies of Islam strongly enough that they will willingly sacrifice themselves and most everyone around them to take out Israel believing the mass death will bring on the Islamic End Times figure of the Mahdi.

a reply to: VinMan

What the hell would I do or want with a facebook?

a reply to: ketsuko

For the most part, the Muslims surrounding Israel are not that religiously insane.

For the most part, yes, I agree. However, those majority of Muslims are also content to let Isreal be as long as it does not impede their religion. It's the minority of zealots who are the problem, and only the minority of zealots want to attack Israel for existing.

Unfortunately, that minority of zealots also can be in power... not just in the Middle East, either. We have a minority of zealots in power in the USA right now. That's not a Muslim thing; it's a human thing.

I think what we see in the Middle East is one of the oldest dysfunctional family quarrels on earth with religious roots.

I have made that same exact statement many, many times. The entire Muslim/Jewish conflict was started by one woman's lack of faith in God's promise (and Abraham wasn't exactly a shining example of faith either; he went along with her scheme).

In a perfect world, Ishmael and Israel would have grown up as friends and brothers. Alas...

The real issue will be if you have Muslims take over who believe in the End Times prophecies of Islam strongly enough that they will willingly sacrifice themselves and most everyone around them to take out Israel believing the mass death will bring on the Islamic End Times figure of the Mahdi.

That's it in a nutshell; well said. And worthy of being repeated.

TheRedneck

Bravo on a well-written, researched and thought out thread. You have put together some puzzle pieces from the book of The Revelation of St. John that I had not considered. The intricacies of how geopolitics will play out is the most variable element here and I agree that China wants Russian gas and oil (Caucasus region/Black sea). For China to be able to invade any part of Russia would require Russia to have their military attention elsewhere; hence the Ukraine tensions as directed by the US on behalf of the CCP. Expect a limited land war there to bog down Putin then the shtf.

So much for the ignorant Redneck trope. You have written one of the best threads here with profound consequences if it only helps people's understanding of future events and how they relate to scripture. As for the US I can easily see Christianity being persecuted as the "super-spreaders". As things get progressively worse in the US imagine a revival of the church with millions coming together in prayer at churches, those evil, anti-science Christians who won't listen to Fauci are now causing the largest outbreak in the history of man! To the deluded, tv brainwashed masses it then becomes self-defense to attack these congregations of insane murderers. The power of propaganda has not reached it's zenith yet. Look at what the Nazis did with only radio and newspapers. We ain't seen nothing yet.

APPLAUSE!!
ATA

a reply to: ketsuko

The end times prophetic beliefs of Christians and Muslims seem to get a lot of press but Jewish messianic beliefs get ignored. Among them are several groups one of which are the Frankists or "sabbateans" who believe the Earth must first be filled with sin and woe as a precondition to their messiah coming. The unhealthy aspects of such a belief aren't hard to imagine. The reach of that belief system is largely an unknown but another group with the initials CL are said to be similar. Make mental implications at your own risk.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

For China to be able to invade any part of Russia would require Russia to have their military attention elsewhere; hence the Ukraine tensions as directed by the US on behalf of the CCP. Expect a limited land war there to bog down Putin then the shtf.

That makes PERFECT sense! I hadn't considered how the Russia/Ukraine situation could work out to serve China, but that sounds completely plausible.

And it's why I like ATS: many minds coming together to dig out the truth.

So much for the ignorant Redneck trope.

Aw, shucks... we-uns is always had smarts. Why, I kin even sifer... wanna hear?

Naught times naught is naught
Naught times one is naught
Naught times two is naught
Naught times three is naught
Naught times four is four... uh... that's not right, hang on... naught times four... is... oh, yeah! Naught!
Naught times five is naught...


(Thanks, man)

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

We always watch The Lord of the Rings this time of year once through, extended versions, and one thing that sums up where most Muslims are about it is encapsulated by what is said about the race of men upon receiving their rings of power: the race of men, who desire power above all things.

Right now, that's very apt. At the very bottom of the struggle is the desire for power. You can't have power if you're dead, so most won't go that far. Even the suicide bomber attacks are still run by the higher-ups who never die themselves, only send in younger and dumber men who think they have the afterlife to gain from it. Again, seeking power.

The minute you have one of the true fanatics reach the levers of power who seeks to gain the afterlife ... then we'll have true trouble.

a reply to: ketsuko

That is very apt, but not just for Muslims... it is apt for all people. You, me, Muslims, Christians, Jews, everyone. All are looking for more. It's part of human nature. Religion is supposed to combat that, but it often fails even with the most devout. The old vows of poverty were created to try and buck this force of nature.

The problem in the Middle East is that the governments are often still theocratic, and as much as religion wants to quench the desire in humans for more, it can easily be perverted to do the opposite. Thus it is easier for "leaders" to use theocratic doctrine to rise to power.

The minute you have one of the true fanatics reach the levers of power who seeks to gain the afterlife ... then we'll have true trouble.

Or one who sincerely believes they have been granted deity.

That's coming.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: XipeTotex

“What if, ifs and buts were candy’s and nuts?”

Those things that just pop into your head are’nt always derived from yourself
Sometimes they are what’s known as a locution
The source of which can be good or bad at the extreme
So when you experience this give careful effort to derive at a proper measurement of the worth and merit of it before accepting it as anything of value…
This is how evil destroys with ease simply through confusion…
And how you do great harm to yourself by programming your subconscious mind…
In other words trust not even your own thoughts if you can’t prove them to be true…

I trust my guts.

And i also like to entertain all kinds of ideas, many times they lead somewhere.

Besides i do not program my subconscious, its all done by mushrooms and everything they code in my mind turns to absolute facts in my brains.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
As per usual your thoughts and connections made are excellently laid out…
The problem is you’re speaking on the book of revelations, something that shouldn’t be done…
The warning for doing such is quite clear, none the less I found your interpretations for the most part plausible…
Far more so than most guilty of attempting the same…

Why should one not speak on the book of revelations? I did not know that this was the case, and grew up listening to a great deal (from grandpa). He gave me a book called, "The Late Great Planet Earth", by Hal Lindsey when I was about 12...

Thank you.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I addressed this issue in December 2009...

Fourth Horse of the Apocalypse – Pale or GREEN?

My conclusion then was...

A world power with a GREEN motive...
...causes physical death of 25% of humanity...
...by using an expert/professional militarized biological weapon...
...in advance of or coincidental to a disclosure of the gods?

a reply to: troubleshooter

I think it unlikely that the disease itself kills a full quarter, nor do I think the vaccine does it.

One thing that those who struggle to take power constantly underestimate is their actual ability to control. This is demonstrated over and over by the continual failed experiments with command economies that we like to call socialism or communism. The idea is that everything is controlled so finely and perfectly by the "experts" (i.e. the power elite) that everyone gets precisely what they need/deserve and there is no waste, no want, etc.

It always fails. Always. No amount of expertise can take into account or track the vast numbers of variables involved in the actual system. The scape and scale is staggering.

But every generation they come along convinced that now they can. This time, with this technology, it will be different.

So they have upset the apple cart and they continue to not learn their lessons and continue to upset it. And the world is so finely and vastly interconnected now that they are damaging the vast web of connections, the whole house of cards. When it comes down, the chaos it creates could very well result in the death of that many people.

originally posted by: seattlerat

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
As per usual your thoughts and connections made are excellently laid out…
The problem is you’re speaking on the book of revelations, something that shouldn’t be done…
The warning for doing such is quite clear, none the less I found your interpretations for the most part plausible…
Far more so than most guilty of attempting the same…

Why should one not speak on the book of revelations? I did not know that this was the case, and grew up listening to a great deal (from grandpa). He gave me a book called, "The Late Great Planet Earth", by Hal Lindsey when I was about 12...

Thank you.

Hal Lindsey paved the way for all sorts of "prophets" seeking profits.

Mark 13:32
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

a reply to: seattlerat

I think 5StarOracle is referring to Revelation 22:18-19:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

In other words, one must be careful not to state things not in Revelation as though they are in Revelation, and vice versa. Such can cause one weak in faith to err. Speculation, clearly presented as such, is not adding to nor taking from the Book of Revelation. It is simply trying to understand it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: troubleshooter

Yep, you reached some of the same conclusions I did. You hit even more that I used to have, until I realized that the rider is not death, but is only named death. that seemed to be the key that made me look at things in a different light.

I'll disagree with one point you made: the rider is given power over 1/4 of the world in order to kill. It does not say he kills 1/4 of the world.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
"Over the fourth part of the earth" answers that question. China has approximately one fourth of the world's population.

Great thread! And that’s a solid theory regarding China. But I can’t help wondering if ‘Fourth part’ means something else. This being part of the bible it makes sense to me that this vague ‘fourth part’ seems self referential, as though referring to something already described in the book it’s a part of.

Could the ‘fourth part’ simply be referring to the order of creation in Genesis?

The heavens and the earth
Light
The expanse (the sky)
The dry ground (land)
Vegetation
Lights in the sky (astronomical bodies)
Creatures
Man

That’s my basic reading of the order of creation in the NIV
Genesis I

That would make the fourth part either the Sky or the Land, depending upon whether to you count the Heavens and Earth as one or two parts of creation. They’re obviously 2 distinct concepts, but they are related together in a single statement, whereas the other parts are related in their own distinct statements.

If the fourth part is the Land it makes literal sense of a pale horse ridden upon it. On horse back is how people have seen massacre and death approach their communities for millennia.

However, control of the Sky is a fundamental, pivotal part of modern warfare that will only become more threatening and pivotal with orbiting weapons platforms and the inevitable race for military control of the moon - that pale satellite that’s been in our skies since before the bible was written.