Don't point your finger at me!!!

Originally posted by skychief
I think you made the right call in not losing your cool Rizky. It would have been very easy to go off on that lady but what would that have solved? We are told what those in power want us to hear as those in other countries are told what their government wants them to believe. You were there, you know that it is hell but you also know that you were able to do some good which, in the end, is all that matters.

YES!!! Could not have said it better myself

I have tried to change the topic with the locals in town but it always works it's way to Bush and Iraq. People cannot fathom that we as Marines/Soldiers go there to help the people, I don't go because Bush said so...I go because I signed up for it and maybe just maybe I can make a difference...

Yeah, It sounds like BS, but it's true...helping build a school, restore electricity, whatever....thats what it's all about.

And please dont say that we are building it because we blew it up in the first place....Im anticipating that reply.

People always verbally (physically in some places) attack the American for what's going on in the world.......

S'all guesswork. I figured the only way the US would want to be involved in RoG affairs would be because of the massive pipeline. I figured as much. Have you tried talking to the Turks? I'm a little surprised at that one.

As for teh russians, a lot of conservatives here have yet to get over the Red Scare here too.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
S'all guesswork. I figured the only way the US would want to be involved in RoG affairs would be because of the massive pipeline. I figured as much. Have you tried talking to the Turks? I'm a little surprised at that one.

DE

Hold on a sec!!! Don't take my words as speaking for the entire US ok. Im just a lone man with acces to ATS

Yeah Ive tried talking to the Turks, (keep in mind the few Ive spoke with are about 50-60). I just got that impression, don't know why though.

As for teh russians, a lot of conservatives here have yet to get over the Red Scare here too.

With good reason, Russia has alot if interest in RoG too and America is at the Middle taking over the roll of Father since the RoG broke from the USSR in 91 I think....alots at stake for all parties

Originally posted by Risky_Bizness
Why am "I" at fault?
This kind of non-sense goes on all the time and sadly enough we get it from our own so called "Americans"

There are some things in modern, civilized society you just don’t do. Maybe you don’t do it out of common decency, like fart in church. Maybe you don’t do it because you know better, like pissing into the wind. And maybe you don’t do it because that’s just the way it’s always been, like putting honey on your child’s hand to get that nice bear closer to your Volvo. But I think, despite tradition and experience and all the studying in the world, one major “do not” in today’s time is this: Do not talk politics, government, and war with the average United States Marine (Im an exception, why else would I be on ATS).

Case in point: My friend (referred to as Bob) and I were kicking back on Friday at a local bar. I was enjoying my ice cold beer, and he his beer, at a small, round table with three wooden chairs. A singer was on the small stage singing the likes of the Eagles, Simon and Garfunkel, Deep Blue Something, Don McClean, Billy Joel, and countless others. He’s a crowd pleasing dynamo, old man, but a little weird looking.

Bob I had just finished singing along to a rousing version of John Denver’s Take Me Home Country Roads, when an older lady, probably in her fifties, approached our table and asked if she could sit at our extra chair. I happily obliged, knowing at her age she could risk injuring her hip in the crowded pub if she didn’t take a seat soon. She thanked us profusely, sat down to my left, and small talk ensued. Introductions were made and as soon as Sgt Bob, a real-deal, opened his mouth, his thick accent poured out like syrup.
“Oh, are you guys American?” she asked innocently enough.

“Yeah,” I answered.

“So what are you doing here?” she asked again. I’ve answered this question a million times.

“We’re Marines. We’re stationed at the embassy.” The word was out. She knew we were Marines, historically the most brainwashed, extreme type of fighting man the United States, if not the world, has ever seen in 230 years, yet she still blurted out, “I just want you to know that Canadians don’t support what you’re doing in Iraq.”

What I’m doing Iraq. How did the finger get pointed at me? And how in the hell is one decrepit old lady going to speak for the entire country? I stared at her blankly, sizing her up, as she pressed on. “George Bush is the closest thing to Hitler there ever was.” All right, she just busted out the Bush-Hitler relationship but I still didn’t have the heart to give her a brachial stun despite my three beers.

I considered a thrust to her jugular notch and replied, “Well, whatever, but old G.W., that’s what I call him when we hang out, signs my checks so I do pretty much whatever he wants.” This quick line has diffused every potentially awkward situation up to that point with a touch of humor and sarcasm, but Blaire Witch would have none of it.

“And what about Donald Rumsfeld?” she quipped. “Don’t you think he should be held accountable for all that prisoner abuse?” I resisted the urge to ask her where her bleeding heart was when American troops, the same ones that patrol Canadian shores, were being tortured in Hanoi. I wanted to ask her, while administering and eye gouge, if she held anyone accountable for Nick Berg’s death.

“No, I don’t hold Rumsfeld accountable,” I replied. You can’t hold a single man responsible for the actions of a few idiots who get out of line. If they were trained that way, only then you can start pointing fingers up.”

She would have none of it. She continued to pick and poke and prod, getting further and further under my skin with every word she hissed between ignorant teeth. I traced lazy circles in the condensation on the table with my pint glass. My jaw tightened.

“Lady, what you don’t see are Americans fighting from behind women and children. What you don’t see are Americans hiding in hospitals, schools, and mosques as they fire into anything that moves. You don’t care about the humanitarian effort that’s going on behind the fighting in Iraq every single second of every single day.”

“Well, Americans have bloated images of themselves,” she retorted.

“Yes we do. Its called national pride. I have been all over the world. Your opinion is nothing new. No one likes the big kid on the block. Maybe when you can get your tail to the Middle East and look into the eyes of the Saudi people or the Kuwaiti people or the Iraqi people, you’ll see what they’ve been living with since Saddam took over in 1979. Because you know what? I have.”

She looked at me a long time. Her eyes traced my furrowed brow to my hardened stare to my clenched teeth. She settled finally on my forearm as I gripped my glass hard enough to make my veins bulge. No longer was I relaxed and preoccupied.

“I can see this is a losing conversation,” she said with her nose in the air.

I looked directly in her eyes. “You’re right.”

“Have a good night.” She raised her glass, stood, and disappeared into the crowd.
Barry Williams was ending a great rendition of Simon and Garfunkel’s Cecilia and Bob was hollering a fourth request for Thank God I’m a Country Boy, by John Denver. Barry just smiled politely.
I drank the last of my Beer and looked for answers to tonight’s confrontation at the bottom of the glass.

But there were none. There never are.

Am I at fault...I know the answer do you?

To sum it all up..I am saying that both sides bring valid points to the ring and at some time there has to be a medium, just stop bickering and carry on. We as Humans are friends, but as nations we seem to be ememies...even in the bar?

BTW...I didnt seriously consider harming her...I threw that in there for a little humor

[edit on 29/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

[edit on 29/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

[edit on 29/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

Tough marine boy: Await a response here tomorrow this Iranian which will make the Canadian lady seem like she was your mama! It's late here - see ya tomorrow!











*Siroos - Please check your u2u inbox.*





[edit on 3-29-2005 by ProudAmerican]

Tough marine boy: Await a response here tomorrow this Iranian which will make the Canadian lady seem like she was your mama! It's late here - see ya tomorrow!

1. Why did you quote the entire thing????WTF

2. What do you mean by your statement? mama Iranian, awate a response, "Tough Marine Boy"....

I need some clarification please...can you break your reply down barney style I can understand it........thanx in advance

[edit on 29/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

Originally posted by Risky_Bizness
With good reason, Russia has alot if interest in RoG too and America is at the Middle taking over the roll of Father since the RoG broke from the USSR in 91 I think....alots at stake for all parties

I wouldn't say America is at the middle, nor would I say the Russians are neccesarily against the US. The pipeline is funneling Russian oil to Europe and the states, no? Is this not a good thing, mutually beneficial?

Really, the red scare is over. The oil brings propserity, it brings jobs. No one looses.

And, as for the RoG, I think they're making out pretty well from it. The way I understand the politics, the Turks are grumbling since it hurts their ties to the motherland, but the russians love the damn pipe. They get a level of independence, and money again. Teh russian's never liked the US, so it's a little understandable, and since Cyprus, neither have the Turks.

DE

I wouldn't say America is at the middle, nor would I say the Russians are neccesarily against the US. The pipeline is funneling Russian oil to Europe and the states, no? Is this not a good thing, mutually beneficial?

I agree, many people and countries benefit. Jobs, Economy (RoG needs it)
and even Armenia and Azer..... are getting the thier good share.

But the tension of whos weiner is bigger than whos is still there between the US and Russia and Georgia is at the Middle (thats what I should have said the first time)...it goes deep..google up Chechnya and RoG "harboring" rebels to fight Red Machine.

Can anyone decypher what Siroos wrote?????? (2 post up)

[edit on 29/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

Siroos thinks he/she is going to teach you a lesson.

I doubt it.

Roper

Dad of a Marine.
Class of Fallujah '04'- '05

[edit on 29-3-2005 by Roper]

posted by Siroos: Tough marine boy: Await a response here tomorrow this Iranian which will make the Canadian lady seem like she was your mama! It's late here - see ya tomorrow!

Brotherman, I have no beef with you

Maybe you didnt understand my story?

I was simply implying that we as Americans (especially our men/women in uniform) get picked for conversations by foreigners that wish to vent out and let us know what they think about the US of A.

Most of the time Im up for a good debate and I go for it, but all Americans abroad are not like me and it is usually an issue of concern.

As I stated before: I was not trying to act like a tough big bad American with the old lady. I threw the physical, kung-fu, whatever stuff in there just for laughs...I probably could'nt do it anyways if I had to.

BTW: your reply, just adds in favor of my arguement

Originally posted by Risky_Bizness
Brotherman, I have no beef with you

Maybe you didnt understand my story?

Ahhh, don't worry about it man, your story made perfect sense. Anyone who didn't understand it either doesn't read english very well or is just reading it out of context.(Which happens around here all the time!!)

All I would say risky is that she is an arogant women....ignore them..There are guys in my school who know nothing of ethier side of any kind of conlfict....hell one guy didnt even know the falklands war happened...barely knew about GW1...

She is just angry at what a few american diplomats have done...disgraced the US flag,nation and its people....but you have to be prepared for this if your away (civi or military) because you are a "diplomat" or "representative" of your country...

Originally posted by DeusEx

PS- if you are in Alberta, feel free to brachially stun anyone you wish.

MODERATORS please penalize Dues-EX for wishing hate & physical harm towards Albertans!
You better give him a warning!!

P.S. Western Canadian still support America and her soldiers. It's just the members of the liberal & NDP parties that are anti-american. Our Conservatives are pro-america.

From my experiences traveling abroad (and I am not a Marine or even outwardly American-looking--just a short chick from NYC...), and I have been verbally-abused, ignored, had my food spit-in (that'll teach me to politely say something when they bring me the wrong thing...), & overcharged just because of where I am from, but most of the people that I have spoken to about it have explained that they feel that America is responsible for whatever is going wrong in their country (usually some form of oppression/poverty/economic issue). I have heard this opinion often--especially when I have traveled to Latin America and third-world/emerging countries.

My first reaction is typically one along the lines of yours--I'm not responsible for what is going on in their country ("Hey--I voted for the other guy!") and how dare you tell me about who Americans are. But I try to put myself in their shoes and I can see how their anger is directed at "America"--in the larger sense, as opposed to America, in the micro sense, namely, me.

The United States is the biggest economy in the world--most countries have the United States as one of its largest trading partners (although this is typically an asymetrical relationship.) The United States government can influence domestic policy pertaining to trade and security regarding its trading partners--and countries where the United States has any significant interest.

American corporations set up plants in third-world countries and pay a wage sometimes a tenth of what American-counterparts are paid--and these people get no health benefits, no paid vacations, work longer hours and if they are disabled on the job or get too old to be useful, they are usually fired.

Even in developed countries, people see the U.S. holding the controlling interest over the entire planet. We use most of the resources, create most of the pollution, and make decisions that have a global impact without regard for the rest of the globe. (The fact that we might have a positive impact on Earth, such as research & technology, is ignored here because the perception is that we keep this all to ourselves.)

And America is in their face constantly. The United States is mentioned every day in their local news--our stock markets, our elections, our wars, our space shuttles, our technology, our movies, our celebrities--our wealth.

So they see the tremendous influence that the United States has on the world and on their life personally--and there are decades and decades of resentment and anger brewing--even to the point of schadenfreude when we are attacked by terrorists or there are tragedies in our cities.

Some of the reaction could just be envy--but it really goes deeper than that. The U.S. has a history of manipulating and exploiting the economies of third-world countries, ignoring the global impact of it's decisions, and bullying other nations with it's global and military power.

So they see us coming to their country--their house, and I guess that some of them feel so personally affected by American oppression that if we aren't perceived as showing the proper respect (and sometimes you don't even get that opportunity), such as acting humble and understanding their "plight" when it is surrepititiously inflicted on you when you are just minding your own business... well, you know the rest.

I think that once they know that you are a Marine, they must stop seeing you as a person and you become some tool of the capitalist system and more personally responsible for whatever they are upset about. In that woman's mind, you had become a surrogate for Bush (he is your boss, right?) and she probably felt like she had a line into the man himself--or at least Rumsfeld....

I have been verbally-abused, ignored, had my food spit-in (that'll teach me to politely say something when they bring me the wrong thing...), & overcharged just because of where I am from

This would be unexceptable in America, The person wronged would have the right to sue or seek payment of some sort. (and they should)

In other countries, it's expected for us to be treated that way. So it's the "norm" and people, gov's and police look away as this goes on.

So they see us coming to their country--their house, and I guess that some of them feel so personally affected by American oppression that if we aren't perceived as showing the proper respect (and sometimes you don't even get that opportunity), such as acting humble and understanding their "plight" when it is surrepititiously inflicted on you when you are just minding your own business... well, you know the rest.

Most of what you said is true....hell maybe even all of it, thats besides the point.

Dignified and civilized people from anywhere, even third world XXXistan and BFE countries should not treat people as they do.

When Im at the local greasy grill, Chille's or if it's a payday you can find me at TGIF's mounted on my favorite bar stool ensuring the waitress's get adequite tips. And if someone of middle eastern decent sits beside me I do not spark up a conversation about:

Iraq
Afghanistan
Insurgesents
How I think Islam is a screwed up religion
(he may think the same about mine)
women having to cover thier faces
etc.....etc....the list goes on.

Sometimes he may ask me what I think and I tell him...and he tells me what he thinks, we debate as men...dignified, civilized men.

We may stop to look at the score on the TV, one of us buys both of us a beer, then we carry on.

Thats what dignified and civilized people do, not spit on Americans or talk trash in the local language about us.

There is not an excuse for it. NONE

We are all human beings.Regardless of race,sex,religion.We all are born,live and die.All we can do is try of make a little bit of difference in this world.(1 )smile can make more of a difference than anyone would think.We all have a job to do,just respect each other.If people don't ,then they have the problem.LIVE IN HARMONY.

If you had been drinking the right beverage, the answer at the bottom of your glass would have been, "There's at least one horse's ass in every crowd."

There is alot of this that goes on....which is just another reason why America is so great, of course hate and discremination goes on
within the states, but at least we have established laws to protect
people...unlike other countries.

Originally posted by dev_add
There is alot of this that goes on....which is just another reason why America is so great, of course hate and discremination goes on
within the states, but at least we have established laws to protect
people...unlike other countries.

You trying to imply countries like the UK dont have hate crimes or just another statement to start another arguement?

dev_add:

There is alot of this that goes on....which is just another reason why America is so great, of course hate and discremination goes on
within the states, but at least we have established laws to protect
people...unlike other countries.

Yeah, good point. You've put a lid on hate and discrimination for a while now. When did Rosa Parks refuse to give up her seat on the bus?

1955.

So yeah, wow, almost 50 years of having blacks free. So let's see, let me do the math. 1955-1776. It only took your glorious, hatefree nation 179 short years to follow your own Constitution (all men created equal). Wicked, dude, I am, like, in awe.

There are no Neo-Nazi groups in the US, no KKK, no haters at all left anywhere in the United States of America. You never hear about race problems, never any riots, everyone loves everyone else moreso than any other country on the planet.

Yeah.


j

Risky,

Thank you for your service. You sound like one squared away Marine. Don't let them get you down. You are doing a tough job. They will never know what you have been through. You are a threat to them because you represent everything that they do not have.

Keep your head down and come home safe.

"Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack." - George S Patton