How Old Do You Have To Be Before You Get Your Constitutional Rights.

a reply to: Quadrivium

We will never be able to stop the 99% totally so I guess we will never get to talk about the 1%.
And, I believe this op said he wasn't thinking about abortion when he wrote it.

Ignorance is not an excuse.

Do you drive a car? Is it registered? Are you licensed?
Got a birth certificate? Social security number?

If yes to any you have joined the social compact.

A constitution is not simply a legal gimcrack for a specialist breed of lawyer to toy with; it is a social compact, a cultural statement, and a framework through which various people and peoples compact to share geographic and jurisdictional space for the benefit of all.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

The mother and father gave the child the right when they decided to create them.
Biology.
Sex is meant for procreation.
When a man and a woman make the CHOICE to engage in the act of procreation, they do so knowing that they may create a child (as that is what they are deciding to attempt).
Once THEY agree to try and create a child and have sex, their CHOICE has been made.
If they succeed in their attempt, they have created a new human being with their own unique DNA.
They have absolutely no right, after their original decision, to kill another human being due to "buyers remorse ".
The father agreed to give HIS sperm and the mother agreed to give HER egg to try and create this new human life.
The sperm is no longer the fathers and the egg is no longer the mothers.
Once mitosis begins, there is neither egg or sperm, there is ONLY a new human being.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Quadrivium

We will never be able to stop the 99% totally so I guess we will never get to talk about the 1%.
And, I believe this op said he wasn't thinking about abortion when he wrote it.

So you believe slavery is still legal in the US?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ketsuko

No, you seem to be the one who thinks that fetuses and young children should fully have this right. What do you think it means? Or liberty.

No, I really need to know because now you think no child has the right to ever be happy. I had no idea that you believed that child abuse was justified, but I guess being an abortion proponent the way you are, I shouldn't be surprised.

a reply to: Dalamax

The COTUS is different than the idea of the "social compact" when used in these discussions.

social compact
an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection. Theories of a social contract became popular in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries among theorists such as Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, as a means of explaining the origin of government and the obligations of subjects.

In fact, it is quite the opposite since the social compact is all about me sacrificing freedoms to the state, and this discussion is about when we have our rights which are basic, intrinsic freedoms no power of man can take away, only seek to oppress.

I wonder how many frustrated parents of teenage kids have yelled at them something akin to
"As long as you live in my house, you will obey my rules"
I wonder how many kids packed up their bags and left. I doubt if it was many. They didn't have the resources to and they were smart enough to know it. They were dependent still on the parents, so they had to put up with their freedoms and rights being restricted. The older kids are, the less dependent they are, and, their rights and the freedoms they grant are extended as they show they are mature enough to use sound judgement with them. If the parents do a good job, the kids will have a good foundation when they enter adult life, be able to earn a living and function in society. They will still be dependent somewhat. They may have a job and be dependent in their employer for their paycheck, and guess what... their boss might tell them the same thing their parent did.. these are the rules, if you don't like them, there's the door... and they may find they may have to give up some things they feel they have a right to. Same goes for the society and the govt they install.. the people are dependent on them.. and there are the rules, sorry if you don't like them... but if you want to be in good standing with us, you might want to accept them.

a reply to: ketsuko
They have the right to be happy, but the parent has the responsibility to keep them safe, even if doing so makes the kid unhappy.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ketsuko
They have the right to be happy, but the parent has the responsibility to keep them safe, even if doing so makes the kid unhappy.

Yet, you are fine with killing the "kid" whether they are "happy" or not....
Hypocrisy at it's finest.
You use the same argument you argue against.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: JIMC5499

They start at birth and are fully guaranteed at 21

Well, unless you were an American of Japanese decent in the early 1940’s…you lost your rights, rounded up, and with 1 suitcase were sent to an internment camp….that was my father-in-law…from then on, he never voted again.
He said one doesn’t have rights, Only temporary privileges

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: JIMC5499

They start at birth and are fully guaranteed at 21

Well, unless you were an American of Japanese decent in the early 1940’s…you lost your rights, rounded up, and with 1 suitcase were sent to an internment camp….that was my father-in-law…from then on, he never voted again.
He said one doesn’t have rights, Only temporary privileges

And at one point in American history, some people were only considered 3/5ths human.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: JIMC5499

They start at birth and are fully guaranteed at 21

Well, unless you were an American of Japanese decent in the early 1940’s…you lost your rights, rounded up, and with 1 suitcase were sent to an internment camp….that was my father-in-law…from then on, he never voted again.
He said one doesn’t have rights, Only temporary privileges

And at one point in American history, some people were only considered 3/5ths human.

They were counted that way for the purposes of determining political power.

I can explain it again:

If the South got their way, every single slave would have been counted for the purposes of determining the number of House of Representatives members the state delegation would have, but you're fooling yourself if you think those slaves would have actually voted on them.

The result would have been massive political power in slave owning hands.

It would be like counting all the illegals for the purposes of determining how many House of Representative members a state ought to have and then not letting them vote. Neither should happen - the voting or the counting - as they don't legally belong in this country. But we have varying degrees of both going on drastically increasing the political power of certain groups also illegally.

a reply to: dawnstar

Humans deserve a right to life.

You don't think unborn babies are human.

QED

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: JIMC5499

They start at birth and are fully guaranteed at 21

Well, unless you were an American of Japanese decent in the early 1940’s…you lost your rights, rounded up, and with 1 suitcase were sent to an internment camp….that was my father-in-law…from then on, he never voted again.
He said one doesn’t have rights, Only temporary privileges

And at one point in American history, some people were only considered 3/5ths human.

They were counted that way for the purposes of determining political power.

I can explain it again:

If the South got their way, every single slave would have been counted for the purposes of determining the number of House of Representatives members the state delegation would have, but you're fooling yourself if you think those slaves would have actually voted on them.

The result would have been massive political power in slave owning hands.

It would be like counting all the illegals for the purposes of determining how many House of Representative members a state ought to have and then not letting them vote. Neither should happen - the voting or the counting - as they don't legally belong in this country. But we have varying degrees of both going on drastically increasing the political power of certain groups also illegally.

Yes, I know.
My point was:
We (America) once considered a portion of the population as "not actually human".
It was not right then and it is not right now.
A human being is a human being, political stance be damned.

a reply to: DBCowboy
There is more to basic human rights than the right to life.
Equality...
Liberty... freedom to travel.
Employment.
Education.
Persuit of happiness.
Ect.



There can't be equality between the mother and fetus, not even when life in concerned, since if the mother dies before the fetus can survive outside the womb, the baby will die also. But, the fetus could die and the mother can life on. And, I don't thing any of the other basic human rights are even relevant. Or, at least I can't think of any that would be.

And, by the way...
Self defense is a basic human right!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: DBCowboy
There is more to basic human rights than the right to life.
Equality...
Liberty... freedom to travel.
Employment.
Education.
Persuit of happiness.
Ect.



There can't be equality between the mother and fetus, not even when life in concerned, since if the mother dies before the fetus can survive outside the womb, the baby will die also. But, the fetus could die and the mother can life on. And, I don't thing any of the other basic human rights are even relevant. Or, at least I can't think of any that would be.

And, by the way...
Self defense is a basic human right!

If a two year old has no one to care for them, they will die.
Should a two year old be aborted?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: DBCowboy
There is more to basic human rights than the right to life.
Equality...
Liberty... freedom to travel.
Employment.
Education.
Persuit of happiness.
Ect.

Without a right to life, all your other points are moot.

*shrugs*

You'll never change your stance and neither will I.

a reply to: Quadrivium
Do you know what a safe haven is? It is where moms can drop off their babies if they don't want to care for them without legal repercussions.
So where does one go to drop off their fetus if they no longer want to be pregnant?

a reply to: DBCowboy
Does the woman also have the right to life?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Quadrivium
Do you know what a safe haven is? It is where moms can drop off their babies if they don't want to care for them without legal repercussions.
So where does one go to drop off their fetus if they no longer want to be pregnant?

They don't.
They do the adult thing and take responsibility for THEIR actions.
They MADE A CHOICE. Another person should not be killed because of that choice.