France on the Verge of Civil War

This piece is stunning, but it reads almost like a parallel of what's going on in the states if you substitute some things out with people or groups here in the US.

It looks like things are breaking down all over.

France on the Verge

This is not an easy read, and it's lengthy.

"Today, by contrast, the political culture has something in common with that of France’s “strange defeat” in 1940. It is too polarized to take account of threats to the country’s survival. Nor is France alone in this. Zemmour, an avid reader of Samuel Huntington, says, 'The United States, too, is at risk of civil war.'"

I don't think he's wrong, and if this is right and France is about to crack, then we are too because to me I was reading about the states, not France.

Take some time to read this and tell me what you think. I can't really summarize it because it's very layered.

a reply to: ketsuko

They have to decide for France or for favored colony status in the Union.

One might be surprised at how many are in favor of the latter option.

Thanks for the link, Ket. Not like I'm biased or something, but

VIVE LA FRANCE!

Cheers

Looks like a very good read , look forward to it.

But the closest France gets to civil war is polarisation expressed in very rare semi violent protests.

It's just far too civilised to ever break out into civil war. Just as America is. Sure, people like to theorise over such events and use the idea as a fulcrum to further their arguments, agenda or opinion... But no modern civilised state is going to be in a civil war any time soon. There are just far too many obstacles in place for it to happen.

countries that thad the honour and privilege of releasing the phases for the economical transition:

the offering, the oblation the ritual:

1) White horseman. (April, 2019)
France

2) Red horseman. (February, 2021)
Saudi Arabia

originally posted by: lux666
countries that thad the honour and privilege of releasing the phases for the economical transition:

the offering, the oblation the ritual:

1) White horseman. (April, 2019)
France

2) Red horseman. (February, 2021)
Saudi Arabia

2021 it's all about unicorns... quit being so cryptic, so we can assume you see this as the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse? correct? what is unique about this time is that is different than all the other times the 4 horsemen have appeared on ATS. They are mentioned regularly over the 20 years Ive been lurking here, wonder if this is the time they show up.

Wont last long. Both sides will engage in a synchronizsed surrenderafter the first shot is fired. The shortest civil war in history.

I think it's about the collapse of Western culture and the ideas of the Enlightenment. The idea of man being free to govern himself. The middle class was the herald of all that in real, concrete form even if philosophically/spiritually those ideas had been bandied about since long, long before.

Do you think the collapse of education is by accident? Ignorance isn't the same as stupidity, but it functions in the same way.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's just a right wing extremist's perspective.

France has people from all ideological spectra, and they can cooperate well.

No-one wants the Nazi's back.

a reply to: putnam6

They came to warn us of all of this...

Wait.... *checks notes* ...Sorry, they didnt say # about it

a reply to: chr0naut

Just because people *can* cooperate well doesn't mean they do.

Get two or three or a small group of people together and face them with a challenge and they can work together quite well, but once that challenge is gone and they are working toward personal goals and aims, cohesion breaks apart because things are quite different.

You would have to be a fool not to understand this.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ketsuko

It's just a right wing extremist's perspective.

France has people from all ideological spectra, and they can cooperate well.

No-one wants the Nazi's back.

Interesting POV.

Here I thought it was the authoritarian rule of world leaders, scientific despots, and basically medical and governmental tyrants telling the common man to um,
“show me your papers”.

Hmmmm.

a reply to: ketsuko

I have always thought that France is a good bellwether, the place cant operate with constant rioting. The opposition will get more organized and the Army will move at some stage.

When the required number is reached it wont be a civil war it will be an ethnic cleansing or convert. This IS their plan and if they can't see it before the numbers reached then France as the world knows it will be gone. And that includes other nations as well.
Do not dismiss this, look at the numbers and their positions yourselves. It is happening.

maybe the modern equivalent of Civil War
is in the court system
whomever wins in the courts, wins the war?

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: ketsuko

I have always thought that France is a good bellwether, the place cant operate with constant rioting. The opposition will get more organized and the Army will move at some stage.

One thing going on for years and so is often forgotten is that fully TEN PER CENT of the French Army's strength is on "internal security duties" within France itself.

en.wikipedia.org...

Pieces being put in place for a conflict, it seems.

Cheers

originally posted by: and14263
Looks like a very good read , look forward to it.

But the closest France gets to civil war is polarisation expressed in very rare semi violent protests.

It's just far too civilised to ever break out into civil war. Just as America is. Sure, people like to theorise over such events and use the idea as a fulcrum to further their arguments, agenda or opinion... But no modern civilised state is going to be in a civil war any time soon. There are just far too many obstacles in place for it to happen.

I agree with that. In the USA, the majority of people don't have the stomach for civil war. However, that isn't to say there won't be a few turf wars coming up in city centers. It's starting already with looting and vandalism. The next level will be gangs openly engaging with rivals for the goods.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

The next level will be gangs openly engaging with rivals for the goods.

The new feudalism. That will be a sorting of who owes fealty to whom.

Cheers

originally posted by: slatesteam

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ketsuko

It's just a right wing extremist's perspective.

France has people from all ideological spectra, and they can cooperate well.

No-one wants the Nazi's back.

Interesting POV.

Here I thought it was the authoritarian rule of world leaders, scientific despots, and basically medical and governmental tyrants telling the common man to um,
“show me your papers”.

Hmmmm.

You know all that ultra-nationalist, cult of personality strong leader, militaristic/ultra policing, strong borders, extreme blamey'ness, sharp ethnic distinctions, anti-large scale distributed government stuff?

Nazi.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Just because people *can* cooperate well doesn't mean they do.

Get two or three or a small group of people together and face them with a challenge and they can work together quite well, but once that challenge is gone and they are working toward personal goals and aims, cohesion breaks apart because things are quite different.

You would have to be a fool not to understand this.

When they say that 'under a particular government, America became exceptionally partisan', they mean that beforehand it wasn't the same.

In the US, politically, it doesn't seem that anyone is even looking for win-win solutions anymore. They are blinded into believing that their particular idea is intrinsically better than the common good. That is the point where good governance heads towards tyranny. And we know who, how, and when, that stuff happened.

The foolishness is to ignore what has already been achieved outside of the current mindset.

originally posted by: Granitebones
Wont last long. Both sides will engage in a synchronizsed surrenderafter the first shot is fired. The shortest civil war in history.

the "french surrender" jokes are getting old. did the french surrender during ww1? no, they didn't they fought for years, through hell during that war. in fact loosing an extreme number of their men in doing so.

they did surrender during ww2. but they were well and truly screwed. quite simply they were unprepared for war, just as the British, their independent colonies, and even the US were at the time. all of which had spent all the time after ww1 decreasing their military spending, and forces to "poverty levels". sure they designed and built a few new vehicles and weapons, but not near enough. and also limited themselves through treaties like the Washington Naval Treaty. which not only reduced the amount of sea power they could have, but also disallowed things like upgrading and building new protection in places like the Philippines.

the Germans on the other hand had been working hard to upgrade their military, pretty much as soon as the treaty of Versailles was signed. completely ignoring the treaty. a lot of work and study and building of equipment and tactics of tanks and aircraft (which they were prohibited from having), being done in Russia during that same time. plus other secret ventures such as "working for and in other countries". not to mention working on war plans. so while the French and everyone else was cutting their military, the Germans were working to strengthen theirs.

the french also relied on the Maginot line. which worked well. except that the Germans made it around it much faster than expected. which meant that France and Britain couldn't get their troops there fast enough, and with their outdated, and not enough equipment and troops, against the German's advanced, and more plentiful equipment and troops had the allies beat. the french really had no chance at that point. especially when the British, cut off sending more, needed aircraft to support them. it was not even close to the French just giving in and surrendering, without trying. they were soundly beat first.