Is Christ God.

So is Jesus Christ God Himself creator of the universe ?
I believe the answer is no, Jesus was The Son Of God in the flesh, a separate entity with His own identity and free will. Just as our children are genetic copies of ourselves with their own identity Christ is a spiritual copy of God with His own identity separate from Gods. I'm not saying Christ Isn't a God, He is, He's God of this Earth or at least He soon will be, just not God of the universe. He is a representation of God because He's actually related to God and so is of God and how God is....for us so we can relate to Him.

When Christ used the term "I Am" He was being truthful in the sense that God has always existed and if Christ is from God then so Has Christ, His birth on Earth doesn't necessarily mean that's when He came into existence. Many prophets stand on the right hand of God but none sit as Christ does and that's because Christ is of God and the prophets are not.

I go with the witness of Peter, who said, "My Lord and my God!"

Peter was a LOT closer to the Source than any of us are, so I trust him.

I'm with Ron Burgundy on this.

"As the wise men once said - SO?"

I believe he was the physical manifestation of God with self imposed human limitations. He demonstrated both human and divine behaviors. I'm Christian and have studied the bible but it just doesn't move me the way the spirit does. Not bashing it, but when someone makes a point and it's only bible quotes, I tune right out. So often It doesn't give your statements authority when the answers are still incomplete and unsatisfying.

Jesus took many aside to give them secret knowledge, this tells me the mystery is by design and we're not supposed to have all the answers. The truth would not help us with what we're here for apparently.

a reply to: Smigg
The standard teaching of the church has always been that Christ is BOTH God AND man. The two in combination. Just like the stars and the stripes together make one flag (for Americans). So identifying him as God does not involve denying his existence as a man, and showing that he was a man does not involve denying his divinity.

in the words of the Athanasian creed; "God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of his mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man; of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting".
(That is why I disilke the modern popular slogan "Jesus is God"; it doesn't do full justice to the carefully balanced combination of the two elements which the doctrine requires).

The simplest Biblical evidence of the divinity of Christ is in John ch1 v3;
"All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made".
In other words, he was the channel through which ALL created things passed.
The logical implication is that he CANNOT, himself, be included in the category "created things". Because if he was one of the "created things", he would be obliged to pass through himself in order to be created, which would be absurd.
Therefore he belongs on the "Creator" side of the boundary line between "Creator" and "Creation".

In the past I've done three different threads on aspects of this topic. I can track them down and link them any time.

There is the trinity...

God, the Father and the Holy Ghost. Is the Holy Ghost a son of God?

originally posted by: olaru12
There is the trinity...

God, the Father and the Holy Ghost. Is the Holy Ghost a son of God?

It always struck me much like "the force" in Star Wars.

a reply to: olaru12
The standard wording is that the Spirit "proceeded from", while the Son was "begotten by".

The great argument between the western church and the Orthodox church is about whether the Spirit also "proceeded from" the Son.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: olaru12
The standard wording is that the Spirit "proceeded from", while the Son was "begotten by".

The great argument between the western church and the Orthodox church is about wheher the Spirit also "proceeded from" the Son.

In some southern Baptist churches, it's still referred to as the Holy Ghost. I guess they aren't as politically correct as you seem to be.

a reply to: olaru12
It's about translations, not about political correctness. My quoting Bible has been the RSV for years.

a reply to: DISRAELI

What is your understanding of Christs baptism and the events that took place.

As soon as Jesus was baptised, he came up out of the water. Heaven was opened and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. Then a voice said from heaven, “This is my own dear son with whom I am pleased.”

Who is speaking from heaven ?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: olaru12
It's about translations, not about political correctness. My quoting Bible has been the RSV for years.

Perhaps therein lies the problem. You have the literalist, the translators, and the apologists. What a mess...

a reply to: Smigg
That was how the human person of Jesus made contact with the Spirit sent by the Father, who was the one speaking.
This made his mission on earth possible, because the power provided by this contact with the Spirit was what enabled him to speak and act, as he himself tells us;
"If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons" [etc] (Matthew ch12 v28).

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Smigg
That was how the human person of Jesus made contact with the Spirit sent by the Father, who was the one speaking.
This made his mission on earth possible, because the power provided by this contact with the Spirit was what enabled him to speak and act, as he himself tells us;
"If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons" [etc] (Matthew ch12 v28).

So you agree God spoke from Heaven regarding Jesus His Son, we have two separate entities Christ and God.

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Smigg
That was how the human person of Jesus made contact with the Spirit sent by the Father, who was the one speaking.
This made his mission on earth possible, because the power provided by this contact with the Spirit was what enabled him to speak and act, as he himself tells us;
"If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons" [etc] (Matthew ch12 v28).

So you agree God spoke from Heaven regarding Jesus His Son, we have two separate entities Christ and God.

But it was the SPIRIT of God that spoke to Christ. That's 3 separate entities. Could that be construed as Polytheism?

a reply to: Smigg
No, I said the Father spoke from heaven. You are misquoting what I said in order to misrepresent my position.
Please do not try to catch me out with verbal dexterity; it doesn't make for an honest discussion.

Let me remind you of the Athanasian creed again;
"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods but one God."
In other words, the idea that God was speaking does not rule out the idea that God was listening.

a reply to: Smigg

Is Christ God?
In Jewish tradition, "No". And, they've had a few. Christ, The Messiah, is a person who was prophesized to come and fulfil God's law and will, to liberate and redeem the Jews from bondage.

Cyrus was a Christ, so was Adam, David, Moses....

The many "Christs" and "Messiahs" that preceded Jesus

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Smigg
That was how the human person of Jesus made contact with the Spirit sent by the Father, who was the one speaking.
This made his mission on earth possible, because the power provided by this contact with the Spirit was what enabled him to speak and act, as he himself tells us;
"If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons" [etc] (Matthew ch12 v28).

So you agree God spoke from Heaven regarding Jesus His Son, we have two separate entities Christ and God.

But it was the SPIRIT of God that spoke to Christ. That's 3 separate entities. Could that be construed as Polytheism?

He saw the spirit of God descending from Heaven Then a VOICE from Heaven.
Gods spirit belongs to God as my spirit belongs to me and yours you, I can try to instil my spirit in people if I so choose but it's still mine and not a separate part of me. God and His spirit are one, the fact He instilled it in Christ doesn't make it a separate part of God.

Let me remind you of the Athanasian creed again;
"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods but one God."
In other words, the idea that God was speaking does not rule out the idea that God was listening.


The fact that God spoke at Christs baptism must cast doubt on "So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God mustn't it ? otherwise we are intentionally ignoring clear evidence that Christ and God are separate to fit a narrative.

a reply to: Smigg
No, because- as I've said already- it was the Father who spoke at the baptism.
The disinction between the Father and the Son is a distinction within God, not between God and something else.

You are shamelessly pertinacious, aren't you? I point out that you have been angaged in a slightly misleading piece of word-switching, and you just repeat it.