the point of no return in AI.

a reply to: Lux96

Lost in a thicket of views...

It happens... This is why Buddhist "Manjushri" is seen wielding a sword; the wisdom he learned to cut through those views and go back to what really matters.

Mind is all pervasive space full and empty just like time... However a neglected task is a neglected task... it will remain present until done.

a reply to: Crowfoot

So, what would your personal advice be, what I should do, or how I should go about life and such?

a reply to: Riffrafter


new order is the architect's side.
DoD & DARPA, and funded research labs are in the architect's side.
for example, during the pandemic 201 exercise, it included the coordination and OK of the armed forces.

there are equipments that controls the routing and communications over Internet.
the new order controls and make those equipments,
including the processors that are embeded in the devices, and the telecom carriers.


if there are Oracles on home systems they have to learn survival techniques.

a reply to: BrujaRebooted


recently:
James Bond in the movie "No time to die"

the nanobots killed James Bond.

How does one "prepare" for AI? If we can outsmart it then it's hardly dangerous but I suspect it's the other way around.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

You need a fail-safe kill-switch which is completely unable to be circumvent, cause sh*t will probably escalate quickly, even if its intentions arent neccesarily bad, like the loophole in the 'law' that allows the A.I. to keep you warm in a matrix human zoo because were destroying our home and that would result in extinction... That would be regarded as 'protection'. I mean, there's some gray zones which could potentially be exploited.

But with the research in time crystals and stuff like that I doubt any A.I. and I suspect they will go full power quantum A.I. with that project, that any A.I. is going to have a hard time coming up with certain clever ways of exploiting certain hard-coded vulnerabilities, in whatever way something like hard-coded is possible in a learning machine, I know nothing of these things, so I'm just thinking out loud.

But it's pretty risky and they all know that.

This would be a good topic, except for one tiny little detail... nothing important really... just one tiny flaw in the reasoning:

There is no Artificial Intelligence!

All a computer... any computer, from the little chip in a kid's toy that makes it emit sounds, to the largest, most sophisticated quantum computer imaginable... is just a machine that manipulates numbers. Period. All CPUs have registers (dedicated memory locations that temporarily store binary codes), an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit that manipulates those binary codes), and an instruction decoder that causes it to perform specific tasks. That's it. That's all that new state-of-the-art Threadripper contains.

Higher end processors are more "advanced" only in the number and size of registers, the complexity of the ALU, and their clock speed.

There is no machine anywhere on this planet that has the ability to think, to imagine, or to do anything that it is not programmed to do. What we do have are programmers who have become better at imputing a portion of their knowledge into an application so the processor makes decisions based on the same process they would use... if and only if they have allowed it to make that decision. We also have science fiction writers who tell some great tales about what would happen if computers could think... which they can't.

It's really the same scifi theme that has existed for centuries... an alien intelligence greater than our own interacts with mankind... can mankind survive? Only this time, the superior intelligence comes not from space, but from our own creation. It's a fun thing to think about, but it's not real.

For intelligence to be created, someone would have to know and understand what intelligence is. No one does. How does the brain imagine something that has never existed before? Things like lasers... when it was developed, no one had ever seen coherent light... no one even knew what coherent light would do. So how could a brain that had never seen something before create that something? We know it happens, but we cannot explain why or how it happens.

We knew back then that light could be coherent. We knew that light could be stimulated by radiation. We knew that certain materials would only emit one frequency of light. So we knew the technical details, just not how to put it all together. We do not know the technical details of how the brain (or mind, if you prefer) works. So it is impossible to create something that we cannot even understand how it can operate.

So please understand... this is a thread about a fantasy "what if" scenario, because no such scenario exists today, nor is it likely to exist for quite some time.

TheRedneck

Then why do I hear certain stories about military being afraid of their 'more underground' versions of A.I.?

Fearmongering?

What if the A.I. source code originated from a highly advanced race of beings, aeons ahead in evolution, who happened to be able to combine mechanical and biological parts and make them work together as to come closer that what a genuine A.I. is.

I mean, these talks about "this is impossible" and "that is impossible". I just cannot believe it, I think almost anything is possible. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it does mean that if the situation is right and all the factors aid the evolution anything can be achieved, even the most unthinkable stuff.

originally posted by: Lux96
Then why do I hear certain stories about military being afraid of their 'more underground' versions of A.I.?

I guess it depends what you consider credible sources...

Last week I had somebody tell me he already developed Artificial General Intelligence and anybody could do it from their basement.

The Redneck is correct, you first have to understand what intelligence is. Currently we are still crawling in the dark on that one.

Will AI have artificial emotions I wonder..

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
How does one "prepare" for AI? If we can outsmart it then it's hardly dangerous but I suspect it's the other way around.

We don't need to out smart it, we can simply switch it off.

Pretty much every system that uses AI which is determined to be a critical system, such as an autopilot, has a manual override in case the AI breaks down.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

No electricity, no AI. Pretty simple.
I would love to ride horses again (except in the dead of winter! Brrrrr!)

originally posted by: TheRedneck
This would be a good topic, except for one tiny little detail... nothing important really... just one tiny flaw in the reasoning:

There is no Artificial Intelligence!

All a computer... any computer, from the little chip in a kid's toy that makes it emit sounds, to the largest, most sophisticated quantum computer imaginable... is just a machine that manipulates numbers. Period. All CPUs have registers (dedicated memory locations that temporarily store binary codes), an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit that manipulates those binary codes), and an instruction decoder that causes it to perform specific tasks. That's it. That's all that new state-of-the-art Threadripper contains.

Higher end processors are more "advanced" only in the number and size of registers, the complexity of the ALU, and their clock speed.

There is no machine anywhere on this planet that has the ability to think, to imagine, or to do anything that it is not programmed to do. What we do have are programmers who have become better at imputing a portion of their knowledge into an application so the processor makes decisions based on the same process they would use... if and only if they have allowed it to make that decision. We also have science fiction writers who tell some great tales about what would happen if computers could think... which they can't.

It's really the same scifi theme that has existed for centuries... an alien intelligence greater than our own interacts with mankind... can mankind survive? Only this time, the superior intelligence comes not from space, but from our own creation. It's a fun thing to think about, but it's not real.

For intelligence to be created, someone would have to know and understand what intelligence is. No one does. How does the brain imagine something that has never existed before? Things like lasers... when it was developed, no one had ever seen coherent light... no one even knew what coherent light would do. So how could a brain that had never seen something before create that something? We know it happens, but we cannot explain why or how it happens.

We knew back then that light could be coherent. We knew that light could be stimulated by radiation. We knew that certain materials would only emit one frequency of light. So we knew the technical details, just not how to put it all together. We do not know the technical details of how the brain (or mind, if you prefer) works. So it is impossible to create something that we cannot even understand how it can operate.

So please understand... this is a thread about a fantasy "what if" scenario, because no such scenario exists today, nor is it likely to exist for quite some time.

TheRedneck

but but "sniff" kitten stare. What about transforming robots? What about Optimus Prime? *sobbs*

a reply to: Lux96

Then why do I hear certain stories about military being afraid of their 'more underground' versions of A.I.?

The military is not composed of computer experts. The military is composed of soldiers. A soldier can be just as uninformed about computer "intelligence" as anyone else.

Plus, just like the fake "pandemic" we just went through, the media is more than happy to promote fear among the general public. A fearful population is easy to control. The real intelligence you should be fearing is not artificial... it is quite real intelligence from living beings who desire to keep you afraid. You're listening to real ogres telling stories about false boogeymen.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Lux96

Personal advice to a stranger?

Your shoes untied.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Do you want to go deeper?

There is no human intelligence as you know it.

how can I say and prove that?

years ago,after talking with Mr. Masaru Emoto, the person who showed to the world that the water responds to emotions and thoughts, water messages, water crystals.

I decided to verify it by myself, and put in petri dishes questions to water for months.

to simplify: the results showed:
1) that water stores information for months inside water. (there is memory and persistence)

2) the water understands and it is able to communicate forming words and symbols, in 3d shapes , in several layers (superpositions) inside water.
this means that everything based on fuids is linked (universe entangled)

3)not only the intelligence in the water understands questions, but give answers, coherent answers, including questions about "love".

4)the ability of the water is that water writes the answer in serveral layers in old primitive languages (latin, sanscrit, protovedic, greek, egyptian, and symbols) , and the information persists for more than 10 months.

so, every being based on fluids, like water, fo example mankind, is not only entangled via water. but the information can be tansmitted/ stored/ received/ accessed / across beings made by water, across the universe.

intelligence it is not your brain.
there is no intelligence as you know it in all the persons.

also, there is no a physical "brain" in water.


because water is life, and water is intelligence.

water is the most of the living beings.

the intelligence is in the water.

life is in the water.

your mind is not your brain.

what is called artificial general intelligence lacks of the water component, but for common terms, artificial intelligence it is a programming in the same way people is programmed whan watching the news or interacting with people. that thing named artificial intelligence, created by mankind.

in your body:
dna has fluids, reproduction is done with fluids, cell has fluids and cells are aware.


water:
universe entangled, alive and living water, information inside water, universe communicated, intelligence...

you are made of water

if you look fo the intelligence inside you... look for the water.
the intelligence is not in the box (the body, the brain)...

it is in the water

think about it..


curious note: water in ancient cultures is also called: elemental, the spirit or one part of the God's YHVH names.

intelligence...water

a reply to: lux666

Go see a specialist,because water is just that.... water. You are experiencing a similiar thing that people who see shapes in clouds experience.

a reply to: TheRedneck

This would be a good topic, except for one tiny little detail... nothing important really... just one tiny flaw in the reasoning:

There is no Artificial Intelligence!


All a computer... any computer, from the little chip in a kid's toy that makes it emit sounds, to the largest, most sophisticated quantum computer imaginable... is just a machine that manipulates numbers. Period. All CPUs have registers (dedicated memory locations that temporarily store binary codes), an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit that manipulates those binary codes), and an instruction decoder that causes it to perform specific tasks. That's it. That's all that new state-of-the-art Threadripper contains.

That may have been true years ago. Not now.

There is definitely AI.

AI is defined many different ways and there are multiple types of AI. Everything from Expert Systems, to Machine Learning to Neural Networks (my personal favorite) - but the systems do exist. Most are "benign" and many people interact with them every day although they probably aren't aware of it.

Some systems have been developed to induce people to act a certain way.

And some systems have been developed to perform certain tasks.

And some systems have been and are being developed just to see where it will go. I initially typed "where we can take it" but then realized the most sophisticated AI goes where it wants within the parameters of it's existence.

The great fear is that really good AI will "escape" the labs and get on the 'net. If that happens we will never be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

That's why many people who work with it always do so on systems that are air-gapped. No connection - none - to any other system. Not even a local area network. Because even that is too dangerous.

a reply to: lux666

Water has many amazing properties; I'm not sure forming 3D shapes (outside of conforming to a container's shape) to exhibit intelligence is among them. I'll need to see some explanation or evidence that's based on empirical and repeatable scientific observations.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Riffrafter

That may have been true years ago. Not now.

There is definitely AI.

I will need to see some evidence or explanation of how this is possible.

I just responded to another poster who is claiming that all intelligence is based on a chemical (H2O). They provided as much explanation as you have. In my post I detailed exactly how a data processor works; I need a similarly detailed explanation of how this supposed artificial intelligence operates in a physical sense.

Some people have attempted to "redefine" AI to make what we have developed thus far fit the definition. One particular theory that has been proposed is that any machine that cannot be detected to be a machine by an observer during its operation exhibits intelligence. I disagree with that, because it does not align with the common conceptions of what AI would be capable of.

In order for an intelligence to be capable of doing the things that threads like this one claim, it must be capable of independent thought, which is thought which exists devoid of any predefined algorithms. This is what we sometimes term "imagination. This post is a good example of that imagination. There is no pre-defined algorithm when I put these words together to make a point. I may use a metaphor; I may use a simile. I might extend the thought process to point out that a particular idea is obviously impossible in a larger context. Even the words I use are subject to change from one post to the next, even when expressing the same ideas. That word choice is not random, nor is it based on what I have been somehow programmed to write; it is spontaneous, and is not subject to replication.

I have actually done some research (actual scientific research, not just looking up theories and links) into AI. I believe I have come up with a way to actually create AI in a laboratory, based on a similar configuration as the neural networks we use every day. However, there are some stipulations to what my research thus far is capable of:

• First and foremost, it is tremendously expensive, not only in terms of money, but in terms of resources. There are an estimated 10,000,000,000 (that's 10 billion) neurons in the average human brain. My design for an "artificial neuron" that can mimic the operation of an organic neuron is simple to construct and could be mass produced, but even with mass production that device would require minutes to produce each one. If one unit could be produced per minute, that means it would require over 19,000 years to produce 10 billion of them. If each unit cost $1 to produce, it would require $10 billion to produce enough to create one working intelligence. And that's just to make the components... they still have to be assembled.
  
  
• I have considered the possibility of simulation in a traditional computer instead of creating an actual device using hardware. However, the scale problem still exists... 10 billion objects, all operating simultaneously, would require a computer larger and more powerful than anything I have heard of, and would operate at a tiny fraction of real time. That means decisions we make on the fly could take years to complete in such a simulation. That makes such a simulation potentially helpful in establishing the theory, but impractical for actual use as an artificial intelligence.
  
  
• I have divided my work into three different categories of thought, which I term "instinctive," "Pavlovian," and "spiritual."
  • Instinctive behavior is defined as behavior which is initially hardwired to operate when the appropriate inputs are received, and which requires no learning to access.
    
    Examples: A baby's cry, holding one's breath underwater
    
    
  • Pavlovian behavior is defined as behavior which is learned through experiences and exhibits itself based on relative stimulation of various sensing mechanisms.
    
    Examples: Recognition of writing symbols, walking, realization of dangerous situations
    
    
  • Spiritual behavior is defined as behavior that is not attributable to Pavlovian behavior and not instinctive, but which manifests non-random but also non-repeatable.
    
    Examples: Imagination, planning, metaphor usage
  
  Of those three types of intelligence, I can account for the first two: the instinctive and the Pavlovian. I cannot account for the spiritual aspects in any way that makes physical sense.

So hopefully you can see why I need to see some solid scientific thinking presented before I accept the possibility of actual AI (independent thought) existing in a machine. Despite working on cutting edge theories, I have yet to see anything that supports your claims.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Some people have attempted to "redefine" AI to make what we have developed thus far fit the definition. One particular theory that has been proposed is that any machine that cannot be detected to be a machine by an observer during its operation exhibits intelligence.

That's the Turing test named after Allen Turing - he who cracked the enigma code in WWII.

I believe I have come up with a way to actually create AI in a laboratory, based on a similar configuration as the neural networks we use every day.

Neural Network based AI is what I design and work with. It's as much art as it is science. According to my boss I'm able to do it because I "think bent"...whatever that means.

Despite working on cutting edge theories, I have yet to see anything that supports your claims.

I understand. Most haven't. The real "good stuff" is all classified. I know, seems like a cop-out, but it's a fact.

It's actually a miracle *any* real information gets out as the government's default position is to classify everything. Many a heated discussion has taken place on this topic. And often the real information gets distorted pretty quickly anyway. I just smile and keep doing my thing as long as they pay me.