SU-37 vs F-18/Super Hornet

Allright guys. The SU-37 vs F-22 thread has gone on a little too long. Stop it dead in the sky and point it whichever way you want the 37 is going down in a ball of flames if any of the very limited operational 37s decide to mix it up with a single..yes a single F-22. Ill even say a single F-22 could take out 6 37s by itself let alone a squadron. The technological and general pilot skill comparison is just unfair.

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Lets make it a bit more realistic. Allright. The F-18/Super Hornet has established itself as one of the baddest fighters in the sky. An SU-37 vs Super Hornet comparison is the real comparison here. Hell no an F-18 cant move like that. But the avionics of an F-18 level out the odds in a more even way. The 18 and the 37 are about as fast as eachother. Both can carry a very impressive array of weapons. The deciding factor is who is the better pilot. Both planes are very evenly matched wether youre stuck on the 37s moves or not. 9 times out of 10 the US pilot is going to be the better pilot no matter who we are fighting. US pilot programs are just that good.

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Or will that 37 pilot be the one and possibly the only one who can move the 37 like that? You know the one in the film footage? That guy is probably a national hero. No more 22 vs 37 please its just unfair no matter how much you like the Russian plane. We spend so much on US fighters we should hire the Sukhoi guys. How bout a 22 like fighter that moves like the 37?

No proof of U.S. supiriority, history shows Russia is better than U.S. plus show us the inside of the superhornet's cockpit, here's the 37's www.rc.overtop.ru...

Take no note of what Tiberian says he just like to hear himself think and thats about it i think the F-18 super hornet and the 37 would be a good matchup the F-18 does have better weapons and guidance system

and i think your right it does come down to the pilot on that one

Siberian *SIGHS* every country in the world recognizes the US as having the Best airforce, the F-14 tomcat came out early 1970s had a radar range of 194 miles using the AWG 9 and had the ability to track up to 24 targets and engage in 6 of them at the same time with the fire and forget missile Aim 54 Pheonix,

Russia then came out with the Mig29 in mid 1980s which is a good aircraft no doubt but still didnt hold up to the F-14 the mig29 only had a radar range of 62 miles and the mig 29 is almost 15 yrs newer, russia had 15 yrs to come up with a aircraft to compete with the tomcat and couldnt do it, Russia then was no longer part of the USSR or things were just starting to fall apart around then but they still had lots of money for R+D and still failed to produce, Russia is even worse shape now, the US has helped them keep the space station going Cuz russia couldnt do it.

I am in no way saying Russians cant build a plane, i think the Cobra monuever that most of there planes can do is cool to see however no real advantage has been seen in doing this manuever being the fact the the plane looses momentum and then does not have the air flow going over the Control surfaces to get themselves out of the way of incoming missile.

And what do you mean History proves this i have seen you post many times Russia this russia that just wait till WW3 Russia will have the Pakfa

As far as im concerned The Gulf war 1 showed perfectly that the mig 29 could not compete against the F-14 and Iraq lossed almost all of there mig 29, and Russia helped Train alot of Iraqi Pilots so that should tell you some History that you think proves russia better then the US in the Air, and the 2nd gulf war Iraq had mig29 and Mig 31 that they were trained to fly by russians but Us troops are finding them Burried in the sand, what do you have to say to that?? sounds like some Iraqi pilots who felt they werent trained well enough and new that the weapons system on those planes were no matches for F-14,F-18

And i am in no way impressed by the inside of any cockpit of an airplane, the only thing that impresses me is kill ratio, and the US tomcat and F-15 and F-16 and F-18 have better ratios then mig29

And you have said this before that History shows Russia better then US, well show me some proof like some Links or something, and not some Document you Wrote up on Microsoft word

And like i have said to you many times before Russia has to mass produce planes to be effective so they will have to make alot of Pakfas to compete for air superiority with out Goin Bankrupt......Again

You have repeated this many times on different threads saying almost the exact same thing, do you do this just to Cause argument????, especialy with no real proof to back it up

[edit on 27-3-2005 by zakattack]

[edit on 27-3-2005 by zakattack]

Siberian Tiger, Ive followed your posts for quite some time and it occured to me that you have no brains whatsoever. Did u know not one f-14, 15, 16 or 18 has ever been shot down in air to air! Your SU-37 aint nothing.

Train

*sighs and takes a deep breath*

Guys....Comparing the MiG-29 to the F-14 is comparing the F-16 to the MiG-31! same argument!

That's a TYPICAL apples VS oranges comparisment.

The Su-37 IS NOT a production aircraft WHAT so EVER.

It would be more fair to compare the Su-30M VS the F/A-18E, now THOSE are evenly matched.

And as stated SO MANY TIMES, the MiGs in Iraq and Serbia were not nearly as well trained as the US forces and they had to use out dated MiG-29's, not the new MiG-29M's.

If the US flew against the Pilots , trust me, everything will be different.


[edit on 28/3/2005 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

Originally posted by BigTrain
Siberian Tiger, Ive followed your posts for quite some time and it occured to me that you have no brains whatsoever. Did u know not one f-14, 15, 16 or 18 has ever been shot down in air to air! Your SU-37 aint nothing.

Train

That is not entirely true. Recent evidence points to a single F/A-18 being shot down by a Mig-25 in Desert Storm. The F/A-18 pilot was Scott Speicher.

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
No proof of U.S. supiriority, history shows Russia is better than U.S. plus show us the inside of the superhornet's cockpit, here's the 37's www.rc.overtop.ru...

Really, what history is that?

I remember reading plenty of how US pilots shot down numerous Soviet "advisers" in Vietnam and Korea. Don't remember hearing about how many of those "advisers" shot down US Pilots.

Well, here we go again, another 'is this plane better than that plane'
thread.

Just to put my two cents in, both the Super Hornet and the Su-37 are amazing aircraft. But when comes down to it, its the pilot NOT the plane that matters most. As impressive as both aircraft are, they are only as good as they guy flying it. End of discussion.

A well trained F-4 crew from back in the day could probably wax a young stud in either one.

Su-37 is not produced, but when produced it would be much better. Let's face it folks the F-18 E/F looks more like the interim solution than a new generation fighter. It has not even all the capabilities orginally proposed for F-18+ program. Especially it's menuvrability sucks, the F-18 C/d can fly circles around it. I also don't think it has a better radar - at least Su-37 has more place in the nose for the radar dish so I would sayif eqipped with newest russian AESA it's radar has better range. The only thing that has F-18E better is RCS, but it is still not stealth, more like eurofighter. (somewhere I read the RCS estimates are 1m2 for F-18, while 0.5-0.8m2 for Typhoon- of course those are just estimates.)

Su-37 is not produced, but when produced it would be much better.

Its not going o be produced it was an experimental aircraft. And why compare the F/A-18 to the Su-37 who not compare the F-14 to it. The F/A-18is not that good when you compare it to the Tomcat.

What I meant in my previous post, if the US flew against the Russian pilots and aircraft it would be different...the Russians are still fairly well trained.

Yeah definitly the biggest factor is training and experience.

Originally posted by zakattack


Siberian *SIGHS* every country in the world recognizes the US as having the Best airforce, the F-14 tomcat came out early 1970s had a radar range of 194 miles using the AWG 9 and had the ability to track up to 24 targets and engage in 6 of them at the same time with the fire and forget missile Aim 54 Pheonix,



[edit on 27-3-2005 by zakattack]

Not me...And I'm sure many ppl (non-russian) agree with me on this..
USAF is by far the most logistically deployable but not the best..at lest not proven to be better than its rumored fighter equivalents..

And as of today (no one gives a squat for what happened 20 yrs back) the Radar/missile ranges of the F-14 and MiG29 are approx the same (300km+/200km+ resp) and even you've got to agree that if the BVR capacity is nullified then the MiG-29 beats the F-14 hands down..

C'mon guys...stop blowing sunshine up your rears because the USAF's been sparring with guys who aren't in a situatio nto use their aircraft to the max (arabs)...
F-15 has a perfect records against a bunch of amateurs...
Wait till the IAF vs. IAF (India/Israel) exercises are held in June/July this year..

It'll be a real eye-opener for both schools of flight..considering that Cope India/thunder were 'dismissed' as 'unfair' 'confidence building' letoffs by the USAF..

The F-14 is what it is only because of its BVR payload/detection..closer in (MVR), its not that great..

Note: plz don't penalise me for 'COPYING' Top Gun phrases..



[edit on 28-3-2005 by Daedalus3]

yes true the mig29 has better manueverability, but my point was is that when the tomcat came out it was about 10-15 yrs ahead of anything else, then russia came out with mig 29 about 15 yrs later and however the mig29 has better manueverability, it still didnt have the radar and weapons system.
F-14 Tomcat uses an AWG-9 radar system with 315km or 194 miles where as the mig 29 uses a pulse doppler radar system with only a radar range of 65 miles, F-14 and mig29 radar ranges are not same. most airwars are fought BVR now so the migs tail slide is not all that effective, and only so many russian pilots can handle the stress and the G forces it takes to move a plane like that

And the F-22 technology was developed about 20 yrs ago and they made the plans so they can eassily upgrade with new radars and US radar technology advances. So if F-22 tech is now 20 yrs old to US standards just think of what kind of weapons and radar system they will put in it 10-15 yrs from now

[edit on 28-3-2005 by zakattack]

Let me get one thing clear - are you reffering to SU-37 Super Flanker or S-37 Berkut because i have seen many mistakes about them. I think that the skill of the pilots is very important. I mean, what can a rookie do to an ace that has shot down 20 enemy planes in desert storm, even if he was in a MIG-21bis?

Originally posted by AceOfCombat
Let me get one thing clear - are you reffering to SU-37 Super Flanker or S-37 Berkut because i have seen many mistakes about them. I think that the skill of the pilots is very important. I mean, what can a rookie do to an ace that has shot down 20 enemy planes in desert storm, even if he was in a MIG-21bis?

Thank you AceOfCombat!! Somone who gets it! Pilot skill trumps technology every time. History has proven this, and it will be proven again in the future.

Originally posted by AceOfCombat
I think that the skill of the pilots is very important. I mean, what can a rookie do to an ace that has shot down 20 enemy planes in desert storm, even if he was in a MIG-21bis?

Originally posted by KyleChemist
Thank you AceOfCombat!! Somone who gets it! Pilot skill trumps technology every time. History has proven this, and it will be proven again in the future.

But we are comparing just planes now, not pilots, nor airforces/navies etc.

Big Train .. Hold your brain in were there are //in a.. . and Shut up ..
5 F-15 A Shuted from Sirya,
6 F 16 shuted from Syria and 10 F-14 shuted from Iraq, ..


[edit on 28-3-2005 by Fenix F 308]

www.cdi.org...
www.f-16.net...

i dont know if any one has seen this before or if it relevant but they show that f-15 and f-16 apear to be inferior to there russian counterparts

How long do Indian pilots train before they take the controls of their aircraft?

However it must be noted that the MKI is a very impressive aircraft and all the mock fights were probably knife fights rather than BVR or MVR fights.

Those website posts are not correct, the F-15 and F-16 that flew were not Fully modified like they are using now, such as Better engines and avionics

Plus not to shortly after that They signed the deal for the F-22 and JSF

I think it went like this " MR President look at how badly those planes flew, here sign here and here for the F-22 that we so badly need,

I think and many others feel they flew bad for a selling point on the F-22

[edit on 28-3-2005 by zakattack]