I know who shot JFK.

is no one going to comment on the zapruder film?
www.jfkmurdersolved.com...

[edit on 6-4-2005 by Sunofone]

If only the CIA was that competent.

Ever hear of a candidate named, I think it was Gary Hart?

In the early 1980's he was photographed with a girl in a bikini sitting on his lap on a boat called MONKEY BUSINESS. The Enquirer did not accuse them of being together. It didn't say they were having an affair.

It ended his career.

So I am to believe that 20 years earlier America was into free love and cheating on your spouse? Hoover knew JFK had an affair with a nazi spy. He knew all about Monroe and JFK. The girls Peter Lawford got for him.

When the Kennedy's confronted Hoover about wiretaps on Martin Luther King Hoover confronted them and they shut up.

JFK was owned. He was in Dallas because the south was shifting away from him, and it looked like he would be a one term President.

So in the face of all this I'm supposed to believe thousands of people were involved in a conspiracy to kill the President. From his neighbor who got him the job, and died in poverty on. And no one talked.

The CIA couldn't even kill Castro for god's sake! In 50 years!

Hasn't anyone read CASE CLOSED?

Did you miss the newspaper articles about the JFK not being missing? That the family asked that certain grisly items not be made puplic?

There is no way to win here. There is a book out (available at Amazon, can't recall the title) from a professor who discovered that the motorcycle cop tape was not only heavily edited, but it didn't even match the cops whereabouts it was supposedly from. He discovered that the Zapruder film too had been edited.

So the new theory in the book? That the entire Zapruder film was staged for the film, JFK had died earlier and everyone in the footage was in on it.

At some point you have to say, enough already.



[edit on 6-4-2005 by Psychomike]

every seen the movie JFK with Kevin Costner? well watch again and when they are in the final deliberation, close your eyes and you will think that they are talking about 9/11. sounds like to me, the same people that pulled the assassination of JFK and MLK, had their hands in 9/11. any takers?

after spending several years on this and interviewing personally several key witnesses off the record, here's what I say:

There were 3 cells at Dealy Plaza

Cell 1 was the real "wet team" it included

A. a shooter in a storm drain at the entrance to the triple underpass. This shooter scored the fatal hit that entered Kennedy's neck and exited the cerebellum.

B. A shooter north and west of the rail yard, with a gun trained on the entrance ramp to northbound I-35, where the president's car would have to enter the freeway. This shooter played no role.

C. A shooter west of the triple underpass, in case the driver tried to enter southbound I-35. This shooter played no role.

D. The umbrella man, who was a signal for the cell, indicating that the president's car was on final approach and the shot was a "go."

E. A shooter At the Dallas Morning News building. This shooter scored the hit that wounded Connolly.

Cell 2 was a "dry team"
This was a fake team, set up solely to provide perps if the investigaton ever got that far. It consisted of:

A. Jack Ruby. He was the controller of this cell, and showed the members how they would escape to mexico in a plane that was waiting for them at Red Bird airfield in South Dallas. On the 19th, Jack Ruby had personally taken "Oswald" and the other cell member to the airfield, showed them the plane that was being fueled, introduced the pilot, and showed the flight plan filed with air control showing the destination of mexico. "Oswald" had been led to believe the ultimate destination was Cuba.

B. An unkown shooter, known to "Oswald" and his Russian wife, who was supposed to have been in the "sniper's nest" on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

C. "Oswald." I keep putting his name in quotes because he was actually not Lee Harvey Oswald, the defectee to the Soviet Union. The real Oswald had been tortured to death in the Soviet Union, in 1960. "Oswald" was the Polish-born replacement for the American. A spy who worked until his death for the KGB, and believed Ruby was a "handler" for the KGB. (which he had been at one time.)
-L.H. Oswald was 5'11, as shown in his military mugshot. "Oswald" was photographed by the Dallas PD, and shows 5'9" in their mug shot.
-Katarina Oswald, the bride, had an uncle who was eventually made a General in the KGB.
-"Oswald" was a spy, originally employed at a photo firm in Dallas, which developed the satelite photos of the Cuban missle crisis. It is amazing to realize that "Oswald" was the man in the darkroom where the photos of cuban missles were developed, the very ones that JFK aired on TV!
"Oswald" was told he would act as a spotter. Moments before the assasination, he was summoned to the sniper's nest, and handed the rifle by "B." This is why "Oswald's" palm prints are on the stock, but notfringerprints on the trigger of the rifle. When the wet team fired, "Oswald" realized he had been set up, and would be handed to the American Public as the shooter. So he took off running . . .


Also present was the secret "Third Cell."

A, B, & C. Three Hobos at the picket fence. Their A & B were supposed to shoot if the wet team missed, and kill the sewer sniper if he emerged from his hiding spot, or shoot any material witnesses if any developed, ESPECIALLY "Oswald" if he fled the School Book Depository in the wrong direction. C was the radio man, hooked up with Jack Ruby and the Umbrella man by radio and visual signals.

One of these three hobos was actually a young CIA "specialist" named G. Gordon Liddy.


I became convinced of this by studying "Oswald's" actions immediately after the shooting. He kept trying to catch any bus that was going near the apartment Jack Ruby had rented. He even tried to get a cab to take him there. He went home and got a gun, then tried again to get to Ruby's apartment.

If you look at the footage of "Oswald" when Ruby kills him, you will see the look of recognition on "Oswald's" face. He knows as soon as he sees Ruby that he's going to be executed on TV.

Look carefully at pictures of the Arrestee "Oswald." His photos look nothing like the Marine who defected to the USSR. Even his own family kept saying, "This is not the boy we knew!"

The only three still living from the above teams are the sewer shooter, who is currently in prison abroad, G. Gordon Liddy who is a talk-show host, and the sniper for the South bound ramp to I-35, whose current whereabouts are unkown to me or any other person.





[edit on 6-4-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

This is the site that all JFK conspiracy fans hate:

mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

For the record, I don't think the driver shot him. I believe he was shot 2 times at least in the head. One in back of head and one in the right temple. Greer was in wrong position for the temple shot. Oswald didn't make any shots cause J. Garrison said tests on his face for gun powder were negative. If Greer had shot him it would have hit JFK directly in the face or forehead.
So far I'm up to ten shooters. 3 behind grassy knoll fence. (Files, Sarti, and man in suit the deaf mute saw) D. Ferry and man in tree to the left of Zapruder, 1 to the right of Zapruder, 2 in TSBD, Braden in Daltex Bldg, 1 on south plaza across the st. made neck shot through windshield. More if shooters were in sewers or on top of bldgs. The three tramps were Frank Sturgis as the middle one, Howard Hunt small one in rear, not sure about frenchy, might be Carswell.

surftofind.com... scroll down for pics of tramps true id

www.youtube.com...
This shows Greer on JFKs left side, in wrong angle for temple shot. Also look at the man next to Billy Lovelady in the doorway. His face is always blocked out. Is it Jack Ruby?

www.jfkmurdersolved.com...
www.strike-the-root.com...


www.youtube.com...
(2nd half)shows James Files who confesses, he made the fatal temple hshot. He was in the best position to do so.


www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

There's many more youtube videos but this should get any one interested started.










[edit on 1-7-2009 by Sargoth]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Sargoth]

Wow. In response to the OP, I have to say I was immediately put off by the name "Mugsy" which just sounds too much of a cliche to be true... but that doesn't mean it isn't.

I personally doubt that a shooter would be a) whiling away his dotage in a very visible environment like the club you describe and b) talking about it. Unless your friend (see, I read the post unlike some of the other contributors to this thread, who think you spoke to Mugsy yourself) was the first person Mugsy told, 36 years after the event...*

That said, the name Giancana rings absolutely true with my admittedly patchy reading on the subject.

But some of the other posters... "Frank Sinatra would never do that!" Hilarious.

There is, actually, somewhere on the web, a video interview with someone who claims to have been one of the shooters. I wouldn't know how to find it again but if anyone can post it to this thread, I'd love to see it once more. The guy's in jail on another crime and eventually gave an interview to a persistent investigator who established a rapport.

I can't help feeling, though, that we'll never see proof of any shooters - they must be the most jealously guarded secret of all.

And a propos the guy who mentioned Nixon: I think it might be Jim Marrs or possibly Webster Tarpley who said in an interview that in the days when he was taping everything that went on in the Oval Office, there was one subject that would only be spoken of via a code word, and Nixon was clearly nervous about it - and Marrs/Tarpley were sure it referred to the JFK hit.

*Edit to insert: this is not to say that either you or your friend are lying. Mugsy (still having trouble with that name, I keep seeing a cartoon knucklehead from old Looney Tunes shorts) could just be trying to make himself look big, and is tolerated because no-one believes him. Dropping the name Giancana suggests he might have some inside knowledge, though.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by rich23]

Edited again because... I asked someone to post the interview with one of the shooters and while I'm writing the post someone goes and does it! How cool is that?

[edit on 2-7-2009 by rich23]

Rich23, somewhere on the web, yea in my post right above yours. Christ doesn't anyone read the posts and links.

reply to post by The Vagabond


Wow. Are you serious? That's kinda messed up. Especially the guy who wanted to be a MIB. That's such a terrible job; scaring innocent civilians into keeping quiet about a truth that could incontrovertably rock the foundations of Modern America culture.

To Dr. Strangecraft, I have to disagree on a few things you said. The neck shot could not possibly have caused the hole in the back of JFK's head. James Files claimed he used a mercury load in the Fireball weapon he used. I'd love to hear any info. on that. I'd also love for someone to post a photo of that triple overpass sewer spot. I've never seen much info. on it, where it is exactly etc. Isn't that where Dan Rather was standing? as lookout? I'm much more inclined to believe James Files made the temple shot. The storm drain on the st. would be a hard angle, and the exit wound would be on the top of JFK's head.
Gordon Liddy was not one of the tramps. Frank Sturgis, CIA agent is the tall middle tramp, Howard Hunt, CIA agent is the little one with the hat, and I'm not sure who the front one is, maybe a guy named Carswell.

www.youtube.com...
www.jfkmurdersolved.com...
www.jfkmurdersolved.com...

This site shows 2 tramps correctly (scroll way down) but is wrong when it says Charles Harrleson is the front tramp. Chauncey Holt does look like the little rear tramp but I'm going with Hunt.
surftofind.com...









[edit on 3-7-2009 by Sargoth]

[edit on 3-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by Psychomike


Open your mind to the possibility that all you assume in your above post could be wrong.......

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


That makes more sense than anything I've ever heard.


The gov and cia would not rely on just one man incase it backfired.

They are always prepared and have multiple back up plans....What smart person wouldn't?

Thank you for posting this....It seems unemotional and straight forward..

First off, "the Boys" as Frankie called them DO NOT talk about "business". So I call "foul" on Mugsy. I've got Teamster friends associated with "the Boys" in Chicago. They do not talk and they wont' tell you twice. I know, I've asked and received quite a dressing down for it.

Besides most involved in the actual planning and shooting were eliminated shortly after the assassination or by the 1976 Congressional hearings into the Assassination. The TPTB took care of last ones, Hoffa, Roselli, and Giancana before any possible testimony could be given.

I suggest you read threads started by many OP's, to include Badge01, as they have done a great job with the threads regarding JFK.

A couple threads for starters:

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

And by all means, go through this thread:

Thread 4

Badge01 and MANY other have got it down. Just use the search feature and review all the threads. Almost everything is covered. Read, Read, Read. I've made a few comments also.

About the only area Badge and I disagree is which sewer the frontal head shot came from.

He likes the one near the top of the grassy knoll and I'm almost positive it came from the street sewer near the bottom of the stairs leading down from the grassy knoll. DPD motor officer Billy Hargis parked his motorcycle right in front of it just before he ran up the knoll. It's the only location that could project JFK's brain matter, up and to his left rear to cover Hargis with enough force to make him think he had been shot. He was riding behind Jackie, and to her left.

I hope all that read this thread notice in the photograph at the beginning of this thread showing the large deformation at the rear of JFK's head. It's the most important fact in this thread, in fact in the entire investigation into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy.

A couple notes into my back ground. I was 15 and watching AF1 land at Andrews AFB on November 22, 1963. Air Force One had just rolled to a stop and a news camera crew was filming it all, to the loud roar of a twin rotor helo near by in the distance.

As we waited for JFK's coffin appear from the left side of the aircraft, the camera panned to the right past the rear of AF1 which allowed all those watching to see two men in suits carry a body bag towards the awaiting helo. The announcer said something to the effect, "Oh, that must be the body of a Secret Service Agent killed in Dallas today." Of course no SSA was killed in Dallas. Got any guesses as to who was in the body bag. Only two possibilities.

This body bag I saw is mentioned in David Liftons Book, Best Evidence, one of the better books on the subject. So is Crossfire by Jim Marrs.

I have also seen an "unedited" version of the Zapruder film in the late 1960's............ and the limo comes to almost a full stop, just in time for the headshots. What has been released to the public might as well be "The Wizard of Oz". The copy I saw was so graphic, there is no possible way the original could be released. A extremely damning piece of evidence that the public could not stomach.

IMHO, Posner's Book, "Case Closed" is an utter disgrace. He hasn't got a #*@%^+ clue. I speak with James Tague (the gentleman "nicked" by debris standing down at the triple overpass) on occasion and we consider him to be the worst of the disinfo agents on this subject.

Posner says the first shot hit a tree branch or light pole and hit Jim Tague. But Jim was hit during the 2-3 shot volley after the first shot making Posners scenario unworkable. Don't buy into Bugliosi either. If you must buy one of the two, buy Posner's, its cheap and doesn't weight 10 pounds.

Jim heard no shots originating from where he was standing, but that does not mean silencer's were not used causing the neck entry wound and the through and through bullet hole in the limo's windshield.

The Lee Harvey Oswald switch with "Harvey" occurred before he went to the USSR. Check out the photo of him as he was discharged and the photo on his passport. One show a no neck Marine and the other is of "Harvey", the patsy. If you can't tell the difference, I can't help ya.

Read, read, and read some more. The answers are here on ATS.

Oldnslo, I have a hard time believing you saw a unedited version of the Zapruder film. It was edited before it was ever released. I saw an incredible version on the Geraldo show in the 80s. It looked like video tape, like it was made yesterday. The head shot was the very different. Many frames are missing from the versions you see today. Were you in the CIA? How did you get to see that version? Can you get a copy of it and post it?

Here's a video showing many alterations of the Z. film.
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 3-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by Sargoth


My 1st wife work for a big lawyer in LA that was very close to RFK and work with him during the McCarthy hearings. I believe he or a partner had possesion of the copy. I don't think his is still alive. He ended up as a Judge here in California.

I believe the origins of this copy of the Zapruder film was the 1 that went straight to H.L. Hunt from the original duplicator, while the others went to Time/Life/FBI/CIA. Zapruder had contacts with Hunt, over many years and It's my understanding he had his copy within just 2-3 hours after the assassination, and I know this to be a fact. (Zapruder may have been in Dealey Plaza under Hunt's orders-they were that close).This one copy was run immediately to H.L. Hunt, the only undoctored version possibly in existance.

In the public released film, most of the debris from fatal head shots has been "cleaned up" making it not so gruesome. The cloud of debris was visible for at least a second or more, not the 3 frames of the released Zapruder film.

Jim believes the copy (of a copy) I saw, came from Hunt (they knew each other). The color had faded quite a bit but the double headshot (Less than a 1/2 second apart) was quite evident and if that portion had not been edited out, we may have had people in the streets. The limo came to almost a complete stop, the double headshots, and then and only then the driver pulls forward to the triple overpass. The through and through bullet hole in the windshield next to SSA Greer may have caused him to bring the limo to a halt. It's must be hard to drive into incoming fire!!!!! I cut SSA Greer a lot of slack in this area

Mr. George Whitaker, a Senior Engineer/Manager of the FoMoCo's Rouge Glass/windshield facility in Dearborn, MI came to work on Sunday Nov. 24, 1963 and entered his department, to his amazement, found the Presidential limo parked on the floor right in front of him. He asked his employees what was going on. George examined the through and through, with shards on the inside of the windscreen indicating a shot from the front. It was the size of a .22 cal.

His employees told him they were given instructions from higher up, to remove the damaged windshield and use it for a templete to create numberous replacements and then to destroy the orinigal, which was done. The Presidential limo was back in the White House garage on Monday morning, as if it had never left.

This interview with George Whitacker is available on the DVD series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy. It's on DVD volume 6-9 available through Jim's Tague's site on ebay.

I'm sorry you doubt my comment about seeing an original, that's ok, I expected it, but wanted to state the facts as I had seen them. I consider myself quite lucky to have seen it, but after viewing it I wish I hadn't. It was a horrific ending of our Presidents life and the bastards that did it should rot in hell!!!! Not run this country.

I really expected someone to comment about the body bag I saw come off of Air Force 1 at Andrews. The slip of that cameraman showing the two gents wisking away a body bag to an awaiting helo should have raised flags for anyone familiar with the case: A helo possibly the same helo landing at Bethesda from Walter Reed, the 2 ambulances, 2 different coffins, JFK's body wrapped in a sheet or those that saw JFK brought to Bethesda in a body bag, Honor Guards/No Honor Guards, ornate undamaged coffins to plain grey "damaged"shipping casket. Many many inconsistancies. Too many to believe!!!!

Most brought to light by David Lifton. Best Evidence is required reading to have at least a basic understanding of what happened to JFK's body and the discrepancies between what was seen FIRST HAND BY AUTOPSY/PHOTO/X-RAY TECHS and what was published in the Warren Commission Report. ARRB testimony in .pdf or audio is also available on these same subjects @ history-matter.com. Check out SSA's James Sibert's MD-188, his depiction of the rear exit wound. Naval Photo Tech Sandra Saunders comments about the photos and the print stock used is also insightful.

Sibert's JFK Headwound MD-188

Other questions/mysteries:

1. CE399 when removed from the stretcher at Parkland, it has been testified to that it had a pointed end to it, quite different than the rounded point of "WC's CE399". 3-4 people saw this pointed bullet at Parkland, but no one could identify the Warren Commissions CE399 during the hearings. Phoney evidence. Beside, there were more than enough bullet fragments found in the limo and in Connolly that CE399 could not have in any manner inflicted those wounds on JFK and Connolly and remained basically intact. There were more fragment remaining in John Connolly's leg and wrist to disprove the almost completely intact "CE399".


2. Officer J.D. Tippitt was positively killed by a .38 automatic and the casings were marked "JMP" by DPD officer J. M. Poe at the scene. When presented these casings by the Warren Commission, he refused to I.D. them as from the Tippitt scene because the casings did not contain his initials on them. They were not the one he had picked up at the scene of the Tippitt murder. Marking of casing is SOP (Stand Operating Proceedures)

However, "a" Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the Texas Theater carrying a .38 revolver. LHO tried to fire two shot but were mis-fires. It was later found the LHO's revolver had a damaged firing pin and could not have never fired off a round. More about this pistol later if there are further questions. This pistol is one the keys to the entire assassination. Who and why did someone give "a LHO" a defective pistol on the hopes he would die in a shoot out at the theater.

3. How did "a" Lee Harvey Oswald shoot Tippitt with and automatic (leaving casings at the scene) and then be seen reloading a revolver (dropping casings) along the way to the Texas Theater, only to have this revolver misfire because of a damaged firing pin 15 minutes later. Hmmmm...

4. Who or what was in the body bag. Remember, in a secure area, weapons are the last thing that come off an aircraft. So I'm eliminating weapons. Only 2 possibilities, come on take a guess.

An ideas folks??

Originally posted by Risky_Bizness
Did he just wake up one day with this story?

He has probably been telling this for years and if that much is true
he would have already been caught because people talk and if he told
you that easy...he's told others the same story.....

Anyways, If you really need closure like myself and you need hardcorps proof then ask for it

seriously just ask, maybe he (without the aid of reference) can give you some details, caliber bullet, which side of his headwas shot, time of day etc...etc....

Yeah I know any nut with the internet and 5 minutes to spair can get all that,....but he won't have the internet when ask and to most people that is not common knowledge

sound interested when you talk to him...like hearing old man war stories...amuse him

[edit on 27/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

[edit on 27/3/05 by Risky_Bizness]

Has it ever occurred that it is because of peoples sceptics like the one you show is the reason he can be safe from the authorities. This story will be meet with the same sceptic opinion as you show.

The JFK killing is over and done with for what ever the authorities care. Most of the people involved in the JFK killing are dead. You will change nothing by reveling the truth now anyways. CIA is not what it used to be. Neither is the other authorities in charge.

reply to post by Sargoth


Does my depiction of the headshots match what you saw. NOPE! I also saw the one on Geraldo and that's when I really knew something was up.

The limo came to or almost came to a complete stop in the first version. In the film released to the public, no such stop or slowdown is apparent. The currently released Zapruder film is a composite, ESPECIALLY at the time of the headshot. It appears to be extremely cropped, as if trying to hide a reflection of the side of the limo. The shooter from the street level sewer may have been visible or the flash from his weapon. On the original film, I saw had no cropping at 313.

Even Zapruder and Dan Rather, when viewing the film the next day after the assassination, said there was somethink strange about the film. It just didn't seem to show what it had the day before. It just "seemed" different.

So who knows, but that's my semi-educated opinion and my recollections.

Your comments, and from any others are always welcome.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Risky_Bizness

The JFK killing is over and done with for what ever the authorities care. Most of the people involved in the JFK killing are dead. You will change nothing by reveling the truth now anyways. CIA is not what it used to be. Neither is the other authorities in charge.

Ho hum. You are so wrong my little buddie.

The elite families that killed JFK are still alive and the are the elite of this country and in full control. More each day!!!

Revealing the truth now regarding their murdering of JFK would cause a riots in the streets of the United States..

Just follow this line of individuals and their connections and see where you end up:

E.H. Harriman, A. W. Harriman, Prescott S, Bush, Banking firm of Harriman Brothers, Brown Brothers of England/ Coup against FDR, Maj. General Smedley Butler, Brown Brothers Harriman and Thyssen Industries of Austria, Poland, and Germany, Assetts of Prescott Bush seized by the US for acting as an agent of a country we were at war with, Operation Paperclip, PSB elected Senator from the State of Connecticut, entices R. Milhaus Nixon and Ike Eisenhower into the 1952 Presidential ticket, plans “Operation Zapata”, Bay of Pigs, involved in planning removal of JFK for his betrayal of the elite in not giving promised air support to Bay of Pig invaders, 2 sons “elected POTUS with one to go. President Obama gives trillions or dollars to “shore” up the banks, of course Brown Brothers Harriman surely got their share. Remember, number 1 – The Bush family are Bankers and “movers & shakers”. The Bush family are the only visible ones to the public.


What makes you think the murderers of Kennedy are long gone. Take another hit and escape into Lala land.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Oldnslo]

I am still pretty much sure that kennedy was shot by oswald who was in turn recruited by the CIA. this is what i think after watching and reading a lot about the curious case of kennedy

Oldnslo, I can't remember all the details but I do remember the quality was superb. The head shot showed the initial strike which caused a lot of spray of tissue in the temple area which is not in any version today and after the shot, there were strange frames showing the large rip in his scalp. It looked like some one took an ax to his head. I don't remember any cropping either. That's about all I remember. I believe I have that Geraldo show video taped somewhere but I've got over 100 tapes and not all were marked properly. It would take a long time to try and find it. I would loved to have seen your version. So what happened to the one you saw? I'm sure it was less edited but how do you know it was totally unedited? It would be pretty dumb of them to let those versions get out.
Kennedy's body was supposed to have been switched, probably when LBJ had the photo taken of him being sworn in on AF1, (which was unnecessary) so they could alter the wounds and make it look like a shot from the rear. I assume that's what was in the bodybag. They took the brain and faked the X-rays etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Scull and Bones ended up with his head. The Oswald head was tampered with. The man who did his autopsy said the head wasn't the one he worked on, when they exhumed his remains. That's all in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". James Files thinks JFK's body was dumped in the ocean. John McCain said JFK's assassination was an intervention. He also aspires to ba a dictator.

Is there any way you can post a photo of the triple overpass storm drain where a shooter may have been?

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...








[edit on 4-7-2009 by Sargoth]