ATS: Florida State Law Enforcement Stopped By Local Police From Taking Schiavo

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I don't see how this could happen. All local police authorities derive from and are subservient to the State government. They should have absolutely no power to stop State police.

Go figure, the state police and state are subservient to the federal government, yet they are trying to supersede it also!

ohio ron
How can a judge determine whether she lives or dies

A judge is not determining that. Terry Schiavo has a legally binding living will to remove herself from this machine that keeps her alive. You, the courts, her parents, and teh government, have no authority to overrun and invalidate her will.

Does a husband/wife have more say so about whether thier spouse lives or dies over that of his/her biological parents?

YES! This is the law, this has been decided by every single court that its been put before. Yes, a person's spouse is their guardian, not their ''mommy and daddy'', not the state, and not the federal government.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by relentless the inhumanity of this situation, of a human being whose condition is described today as her tongue and eyes bleeding and her skin flaking off from being denied even hydration.

Then allow euthanization. Terri Schiavo has a binding will. You have no right to ignore it. What is happening now is perfectly legal. If anyone wants to reduce her suffering, then they should allow her to be euthanized. Tho its irrelevant, because she has no brain function to allow her to suffer.

the only way to Deny Ignorance at this point is to admit NONE OF US KNOW what has been done here or the repercussions

The onyl way to deny ignorance is to admit that her husband has never been charged with a crime, has never been shown to be lying about her wishes, and is doing everything that he should be doing, and to allow this woman to die as she wants, not to issue idiotiic supeonas to have her be questioned by congress or to even entertain for a moment the assinine assertion that she's trying to say 'i want to live'.

djohnsto77
She's neither clinically or brain dead by any medical definition. Yet.

She has practically zero brain function. Its low enough to allow her living will to come into effect.

It's called balance of power between the branches of government,

How can you possibly hypocritically call for the balances of power to support the state police overriding a legal court order at the command of a governor!

something that seems to have been forgotten in lieu of tyranny of the judicial branch.

The only tyranny here is comming from the office of the governor, and I am sad to have to say that! Jeb has no authority to disobey and usurp the powers of the state and federal courts!

There is no Federal court order here, the Federal courts simply stayed out of it. Jeb Bush has total control of the executive branch of government which includes all the police forces and agencies of the State.

NO No NO !

You are all wrong !

This is a culture of life! We don't advocate death in any way, shape, or form..........

After all, Death is one of those things that affects those in the third world, right?.....NOT Americans !

After all ...don't we have the power to avoid the nasty circumstances of life ? Why should we be held to the realities of existence....are we not human?.............

We are Americans....we should'nt have to deal with death.........after all that's terrorism, is'nt it? ......

Are you with us or against us folks? Choose your side........

To serve and protect, huh? If the court believes that Terry's capable of deciding that she doesn't want to live, shouldn't she be capable of deciding that she does want to live? Couldn't allowing herself to to be fed be seen as some kind of will for survival? It's not as if she's in a coma. It's not as if she's on a respirator. It's not as if she's brain dead. She just needs help eating because she has too much brain damage to be getting along with. She's not the one refusing to be fed! Her husband is refusing to let her be fed.

There has been a national controversy about this and I've only heard right wing radio hosts take Michael's side. Considering the amount of people who are hating Michael's guts right now, if I were him, I'd watch his back.
Furious,
-S

For those that are waiting for Terri to die you must ask yourself this.

If this were your family member would you just so easily let it go. Would you not fight to the end to keep your loved one.

I hope that it would never happen to anyone's family member but it could so just place yourself in the mind state of her parents and then maybe you could understand why they are doing what they do.

40 years ago organ transplants were unheard of and science has since come a long way. Who's to say that a year from now that a brain cannot be replaced? I know it sounds far fetched but we are an advancing life.
She is not dead. Her heart beats blood and her lungs breath air.

Suppose that the dehydration that Terri has suffered depleted the liquid that occupies sections of her brain and suppose if she were to be rehydrated that this area of the brain began to grow new cells.

Supposedly when Terri stated that she did not want to be kept alive by artificial means it was at a discussion about her grandmother in law and she was being kept alive by a respirator not a feeding tube. The two methods are not the same.

Originally posted by ServoHahn
To serve and protect, huh? If the court believes that Terry's capable of deciding that she doesn't want to live, shouldn't she be capable of deciding that she does want to live? Couldn't allowing herself to to be fed be seen as some kind of will for survival? It's not as if she's in a coma. It's not as if she's on a respirator. It's not as if she's brain dead. She just needs help eating because she has too much brain damage to be getting along with. She's not the one refusing to be fed! Her husband is refusing to let her be fed.

SHE IS BRAIN DEAD.

She has no brain function what so ever!
She has no chance of recovering!
She has being in this state for 15 years!
Her movements are merely reflexive and not controlled by the brain.

There has been a national controversy about this and I've only heard right wing radio hosts take Michael's side. Considering the amount of people who are hating Michael's guts right now, if I were him, I'd watch his back.

Actually, a CBS poll showed that 80+% of Americans are actually sensible and support Michael. What's this thing about watching his back???? Man, thats just what we need, a vigilante.

Originally posted by Lanotom
40 years ago organ transplants were unheard of and science has since come a long way. Who's to say that a year from now that a brain cannot be replaced? I know it sounds far fetched but we are an advancing life.
She is not dead. Her heart beats blood and her lungs breath air.

I'am pretty sure 40 years later, the brain could still not be replaced. Replacing a brain makes little sense anyhow, SHE WOULD NOT BE TERRY SHIAVO, she would be the person who gave the brain.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by rapier28]

Originally posted by Nygdan
This seems border line criminal,no?

Yes it is more than borderline IMHO. Family values :shk: I hope that when the dust settles on this whole disgusting affair, that they take a look at Jeb's actions and that of his administration as well as both sides of congress.

The Religious extreemist way overplayed thier hand on this one. Jeb just killed off any presidential aperations. More to the point the extremisit Christian agenda and thier power may be at a zenith and start to wane after this

It is absolutely NOT true that she is brain dead. If she was, she wouldn't be breathing, following objects with her eyes, smiling, etc. Please stop spreading lies and disinformation.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Also, these parents have gone beyond merely being distraught and thus irrationalized parents. They've actually preposterously claimed that she told them she wants to live. Thats not physically possible. They are literally, liars. This is getting way out of hand.

Do you have a daughter? If you did, wouldn't you go to any lengths to keep her alive. These two parents are FORCED to sit and watch their daughter die slowly over the course of about ten days (or over the past 15 years), all the time being completely impotent to do anything. I'd be desperate too. She only has a few hours/days left.

The claim that Michael made about Terry telling him she wanted to die was
1. Also preposterous and
2. Not a legally binding living trust or living will, which is legally necissary in order to "pull the plug"... ow wait, there is no plug to pull. They're just going to stop feeding her.

I was leaning towards Michael's side before I heard all the facts like
1. It took him 3 years of her being in a hospital to decide that Terry told him that she'd want to die in this situation
2. He decided that she told him this right after he recieved 1.5 million to keep her alive from a malpractice suit (and none of which he spent on Terry)
3. He's started a new family and has two new kids
4. She's been brain damaged for more than three times as long as he knew her before she's been hospitalized and
5. I saw footage of her in her hospital bed. She was able to talk 4 years into her hospitalization. Shen I saw her on tape (and this was much more recent footage) she was smiling at her parents and nodding her head. She looked around and I SAW recognition on her face. There is still a person there who has thinking capacity, however limited, and no one but her should be able to decide that she should be allowed to die just because she can't voice her own opinion. Parents aren't allowed to stop feeding their own babies saying that "He doesn't want food. He wants to die."

There may be a borderline crime here, but if there is, it's the borderline murder of Terry Schiavo.
-S

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It is absolutely NOT true that she is brain dead. If she was, she wouldn't be breathing, following objects with her eyes, smiling, etc. Please stop spreading lies and disinformation.

She has no control over her actions.

He "smiling" and "following" are just random movements. If you make a balloon fly around the room 50 times, chances are her random movements will be seen to be following it.

Servohahn, please don't just go to www.terrisfight.com for information. Read some decent mainstream newspaper. (or even Fox)

[edit on 26-3-2005 by rapier28]

Do you have a daughter? If you did, wouldn't you go to any lengths to keep her alive.

This is the only way that anyone can understand. I doubt there is one poster here that has a child and would say they would allow this to happen. Not one! Guaranteed!

Rapier, I don't know what YOU'VE been reading, but the numerous witnesses and video tape (have you seen it?) of her moving and talking can't be a farce. I saw the video on CBS (I don't know if that's mainstream for you or not). She is NOT brain dead. I work with brain dead patients, Terri is not brain dead, not even close. She has suffered sever brain damage (hardly the same thing) and shows brain activity in the language, critical thinking, movement and other areas of the brain which are responsible for response to stimulus. When she is spoken to, she recognizes it as language but there's no way of telling whether she understands.

Terry is alive, conscious and aware. Do not ever think she is not. She can currently sit up, swollow, and show facial expression. She is not on life support, she ONLY has a feeding tube. I'm sure many things she does are automatic, but I'm equally sure that shifting herself in her bed because she's uncomfortable is not one of them.

I have never heard of whatever web site it is that you're talking about. I get my information about her diagnosis from two of the doctors at the VA where I work. They get their information from records and statements at Humana Hospital. There is a movement started by the nurse unions of Los Angeles to force hospitals to change their policies on the number of nursing hours dedicated to brain damaged patients as a direct result over the controversy of the things being claimed by the doctors and nurses at Humana.

Nygdan, the things allegedly dictated to Michael Schiavo are in NO WAY legal OR binding. A living will or trust must be written and notarized. This problem comes up more frequently than you might imagine.

A living will would be where Terri wrote down the terms of her treatment should she be unable to make those decisions at the times that they arise. It must be notarized. A living trust is where Terri gives up all decisions involving treatment should she be unable to make those decisions as they arise to an appointed custodian or future custodian. It must be signed and notarized. She has neither. Please don't claim she had a living will or trust because she doesn't. Use the freedom of information act to find it if you believe otherwise. It should be available 90 days after it was notarized if kept in a public record base, and 90 days after a decision was made regarding the document if it was kept privately. In either case, it should be available. Just know that if she did have a living will, she'd have been dead 14 years ago.

This is not a matter of opinion. I know none of you took the time out to actually visit her in the hospital, but if you asked anyone who did or anyone who treated her, I'm sure they'd tell you that Schiavo is not the kind of person usually allowed to die in hospitals. In almost every case in American Medical history where a person was allowed to die by starvation, the person in question personally asked their doctors to stop feeding them or simply refused to eat. Terri has done neither.

What we do have, it appears, are people making medical claims without a background in medicine.
-S


[edit on 26-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

www.terrisfight.net...

Lots of video of a living human being.

I'm still waiting for the pro-death people to tell me how they would let a spouse dictate their loved one's death. No takers?

Originally posted by Lanotom
www.terrisfight.net...

Lots of video of a living human being.

I'm still waiting for the pro-death people to tell me how they would let a spouse dictate their loved one's death. No takers?

You know, I'd let my wife choose what happens to me because I love and trust her, but only under the condition that I be completely braindead (not like Shiavo) for no less than five years, and if my parents (if they were still alive at the time) consented to it (not like Shiavo). Who are we to decide who's right in this decision? Who is Michael Shiavo? He's obviously over Terri and doesn't love her as her parents do.

Personally, I couldn't take the burden of deciding if any of my loved ones lived or died, and certainly not by starvation! If given the choice, I'd probably keep them all alive as long as possible. Once your parents go senile (and Terri's current state is close to that of a senile patient) would you EVER even CONSIDER letting them die? Do you love your parents? Have they told you "Should I become brain damaged at any point in my life, I want you to let me die"?

Are you aware of the miracle stories of people who were actually brain dead for years waking up and making a (sometimes full) recovery? Ask yourselves what kind of man would get married to a woman he's known for three years, and then when she get hospitalized, goes and makes a new family for himself, and is awarded 1.5 million dollars to help treat his wife (not spending it on her) and then says that he wants her to die because he loves her!?

I don't know what he actually feels for her, but I can assure each and every one of you (that comes from a stable home) that NO ONE will EVER love you as much as your parents. And Terri's parents want her to live. Why don't we listen to them instead of Michael?
-S

Originally posted by ServoHahn
This is not a matter of opinion. I know none of you took the time out to actually visit her in the hospital, but if you asked anyone who did or anyone who treated her, I'm sure they'd tell you that Schiavo is not the kind of person usually allowed to die in hospitals. In almost every case in American Medical history where a person was allowed to die by starvation, the person in question personally asked their doctors to stop feeding them or simply refused to eat. Terri has done neither.
[edit on 26-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

Do you know how many people are pulled every year across the world?

I don't remember people like you and Congress making a fuss over men protesting they innocence and then being executed.

I don't remember you making a fuss over Congress allowing hospitals to pull the plug on people that can't pay.

EVERY SINGLE COURT DOCTOR THAT TREATED HER SAID THAT SHE HAS NO CHANCE OF RECOVERY.

Terry is alive, conscious and aware. Do not ever think she is not. She can currently sit up, swollow, and show facial expression. She is not on life support, she ONLY has a feeding tube. I'm sure many things she does are automatic, but I'm equally sure that shifting herself in her bed because she's uncomfortable is not one of them.

I'am sorry but that is just false.

If she can swallow then why is she being fed by a tube? LOGIC.

I have never heard of whatever web site it is that you're talking about. I get my information about her diagnosis from the two of the doctors at the VA where I work. They get their information from records and statements at Humana Hospital. There is a movement started by the nurse unions of Los Angeles to force hospitals to change their policies on the number of nursing hours dedicated to brain damaged patients as a direct result over the controversy of the things being claimed by the doctors and nurses at Humana.

Humana Hospital isn't exactly the most partial of sources that you can use. Try all the court-appointed doctors and leading neurologists across the world.

I don't have to have a background in medicine (even though i have a background in biology), i can simply read what the leading neurologists have said.

Lanotom
I'm still waiting for the pro-death people to tell me how they would let a spouse dictate their loved one's death. No takers?

Lanotom, what you fail to understand is that we support the parent's quest 100%, the whole thread is not about them. But the fact remains, they lost in a court of law.

Do we want our loved ones to die? NO. Do people die? YES.

It's about Congress and Jeb Bush overturning Judicial rulings and usurping they power.

ServoHahn
and is awarded 1.5 million dollars to help treat his wife (not spending it on her) and then says that he wants her to die because he loves her!?

Do you know that the Husband was offered multi-million deals to relinquish custody? So please don't put money into this argument.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by rapier28]

rapier28,

You are trying so hard to make people see what is really going on, but as usual many people still have the veil over their eyes and never will be able to see at all.

Not matter how many times you tried to explain it falls in close ears.

At least "Majority of Americans" have open their eyes to the truth of what is and who is trying to take America away from under our noses.

Is about time "Christian Americans" retake America from "Secular extremist groups"

Do you know that the Husband was offered multi-million deals to relinquish custody? So please don't put money into this argument.

Don't let me say I told you so but just wait until after Terri dies and see how many book and other deals this guy starts shopping.


Michael Schiavo, husband of Terri Schiavo, explains to Larry King last Monday how he choked Terri in order to stop oxygen from reaching her brain.

Not exactly but it's the picture that was communicated to me.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by Lanotom]

Please Keep this to a serious discussion. While tempers and innuendos may fly, please keep them out of here.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It is absolutely NOT true that she is brain dead. If she was, she wouldn't be breathing, following objects with her eyes, smiling, etc. Please stop spreading lies and disinformation.

I've been following this, not to single out djohnton77, but to pick up this part of the thread. I'm not a Doc but I have been following the neurologists on this.
Yes she has brain function but it's only the reflex and response that she has. She has no chance of regaining concience since that part of her brain suffered the most during 14 mins without oxygen. I wish it were possible that this could be reveresed, but our concience is what we are and our ability to carry out life. You will remeber the biology you studied in High School with the tap on the knee, you did'nt have to think about it, in fact you had to look away in most cases because you were thinking about it and stopping you leg from moving. Reflex action such as eyes darting toward an object, vocal sprurts, kicking, digestion, breathing, heartbeat, etc are all handled by parts of the brain that require little to no thaught. Concience and human reasoning may never be understood as they are complex functions that we don't really understand enough about. Medical reports show that the regions of her brain that contain these functions have been lost to injury/no oxygen. I would rather they keep the life support on, we could learn from observation, but this is not a way for the family to exist and it is by all means between the Husband and Wife to decide.