Question for those who are willing to ponder the possibility that we and the universe were created

originally posted by: TerraLiga

If your god is real, it is weak, impotent, vain and lethargic. A deity like that is not worth any of my time.

The laws of nature have been perpetuating to a razor's point precision for the past known history. That's how potent God's law is... it is these laws that perpetuate matter's existence and life as we know it.

You can suppose these logical laws came to be without logic, but know that is the remarkably less logical probability.

a reply to: TerraLiga

If you'd like to study the evolution of cells you could go a long way to answering many of those questions. Not everything is known yet, however, and I am more than happy to concede that.

I understand the phases of the cell cycle very well. I am glad that you are the type who will admit they don't know something.
Believe it or not, sometimes, if you give 'some' people a question they can't answer or find the answer to, they actually get bitter and start attacking the person (and their beliefs) who asked the question.
They would probably say something like:
"If your god is real, it is weak, impotent, vain and lethargic. A deity like that is not worth any of my time."

Many of these same people, who would say such things, can't see they are part of a religion.

Their god?
Time.
Their savior?
Evolution.
They can't back up any of the claims for the common ancestor theory because the only fact we know for sure is adaptation happens.
But through their almighty time & evolution all things are possible. No facts, just faith.

a reply to: Quadrivium

You have faith, I have a growing pool of factual, peer-reviewed evidence. You have nothing.

But happy new year!

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: Quadrivium

You have faith, I have a growing pool of factual, peer-reviewed evidence. You have nothing.

!

You always say this but you've never shown one example of evolution occurring.

The fact is, there are more historical documented examples of Virgin births than there are examples of a population of organisms evolving into some distinct new species.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: Quadrivium

You have faith, I have a growing pool of factual, peer-reviewed evidence. You have nothing.

But happy new year!

It's not fun when someone attacks your religion, huh?

a reply to: Quadrivium

If nature is ever proven false I will drop it like a hot stone in an instant. I have a feeling you would never say that about your religion.

a reply to: cooperton

There have been many many examples of evolution in the dozens of threads you start or contribute to. You choose to ignore them, because you don't know what evolution is.

I can't play any more tonight. Seriously, happy new year to you both.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: Quadrivium

If nature is ever proven false I will drop it like a hot stone in an instant. I have a feeling you would never say that about your religion.

Nature or Evolution??
They are not the same.
Or did you mean 'Natural Selection'??

originally posted by: TerraLiga
I can't play any more tonight. Seriously, happy new year to you both.

I really would like to have a non-confrontational conversation if you are open to it and when you have time (yes, it is possible I have done it before).

originally posted by: Quadrivium
I really would like to have a non-confrontational conversation if you are open to it and when you have time (yes, it is possible I have done it before).

A lot of atheists who I have debated very quickly revert into a shell because they're not familiar with someone having answers to the 'gotcha' questions they are asking. I don't think they want the truth, they just want to be right. Some are also still bitter against God because they were raised in a hypocritical environment. Especially since evolution is essentially the state-sponsored religion, it is deeply embedded programming.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: cooperton

There have been many many examples of evolution in the dozens of threads you start or contribute to. You choose to ignore them, because you don't know what evolution is.

None of them show a population of organisms evolving into something new. Without evidence, it is merely faith that such an occurrence is possible.

I can't play any more tonight. Seriously, happy new year to you both.

You as well. Beyond these debates it's best we keep our humanity.

Cheers

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Toothache

but we do know that evolution does happen

Correction:
We do know that adaptation does happen. That is the only fact we 'know'. Anything beyond that is speculation and has to be taken on faith.

Evolution = long term adaptation. Nice try. Changing the meaning of the word doesn't negate the theory, that's the oldest fallacy in the book, dude. Seriously.....

originally posted by: cooperton
If we understood genetics there would be no more disease. Our understanding is insufficient, and even if we had more understanding that wouldn't mean the genes came to be by random chance. It's called genetic code rightfully so because it required a Coder.

I did not say we have perfect knowledge of genetics. Again, random chance is a probability, NOT an explanation, so your straw man fails again. Calling something a code does not mean it REQUIRES a coder, that is infantile logic.

They're still trying to figure out how energetically unfavorable reactions could have culminated in massive polymers that code for coherent sequences of data. Even if you get large genetic strands (which is highly unfavorable in water) you would still need massive protein complexes to parse through it. It's just not feasible for random chance to make these mechanisms.

Yes, they have not figured that out yet in abiogenesis. We get that, but that doesn't make it wrong, nor does it have anything to do with evolution.

No lab data shows a population of organisms evolving into something distinctly new. The extent of what the research shows is reversible adaptations.

Straw man. Dismissed.

All Mac products share similar coding, that doesn't mean they all randomly mutated from one another. Just because mammals share phenotypically similar traits does not mean they mutated from a common ancestor.

Mac products were made by humans, so once again your analogy fails. Technology does not mutate, genes DO and it's been proved.

originally posted by: cooperton
The fact is, there are more historical documented examples of Virgin births than there are examples of a population of organisms evolving into some distinct new species.

This is the most laughable nonsense I've read yet. So you believe in virgin births because stories reference them, but you won't believe evolution, despite millions of documented facts and peer reviewed research papers?

That is comedy gold. It always cracks me up when religious fundies act like an ancient story is hard proof but science is just a guess in the dark.

originally posted by: Toothache
,but you won't believe evolution, despite millions of documented facts and peer reviewed research papers?

Show one documented example of a population of organisms evolving into a distinctly new organism. I will save you time, there is no such thing. E. Coli remain E. Coli, mice remain mice, fruit flies remain fruit flies. You simply have faith in the mutant monkey theory, and I used that example you are ridiculing to demonstrate it. There is no historical example of a population of organisms evolving into something new

a reply to: cooperton

Coop, for goodness sake mate, stop with this nonsense.

No experiment that I am aware of has set out to create a new species so why continue with this line? Look at the fossil record; new species arise from adversity and opportunity. Mass extinction events create gaps in the food chain, and therefore those species that remain will evolve to exploit those opportunities and, over a significant amount of time, will form into completely new species and genera. This takes tens of thousands to millions of generations to happen. A lab will not create that sort of environment, and no experiment has set out to do that.

I know you don't believe in fossils, but why not not have a look with a pair of unbiassed eyes.

originally posted by: TerraLiga

Look at the fossil record; new species arise from adversity and opportunity.

Show one example of this with empirical evidence to support your assertion.

a reply to: cooperton
You totally missed the point.

You tried to use "stories" of virgin births as proof and are now asking for empirical evidence. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

And, since I am here, christianity is also "essentially the state-sponsored religion, it is deeply embedded programming."

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TerraLiga

Look at the fossil record; new species arise from adversity and opportunity.

Show one example of this with empirical evidence to support your assertion.

I will supply empirical evidence (which I can do) when you supply empirical evidence of your god (which you can't do).

Regardless;
Approx 600-650mya evidence shows that the end of a massive glaciation provided an environment for Ediacaran life. Fossil sites include Flinders Ranges, Australia and Mistaken Point, Canada. Fossils this age are extremely rare. A global oceanic oxygen depletion ended this period approx 550mya.

Approx 540mya fossil evidence shows that complex life restarted and expanded significantly to include thousands of new types of life, which included almost every type of animal body shape we know of today. I has become known as the Cambian, from a site in Wales, UK where strata was originally identified. Significant sites include Burgess Shale, Canada; Wheeler Shale, USA; Maotianshan Shales, China; Emu Bay, Australia. There is no single adopted theory as to the end of the Cambian, but a significant reductions in fossil types occurred approx 490mya.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Randyvine2

A truly hyper intelligent and omnipotent force of cosmic wisdom and engineering would have delivered the Bible to society in Kindle format instead of waiting for 20th century scientists to invent it. And that Kindle device would have included modern formulas and technology, such as explaining electricity and how to generate and distribute it.

you people just don't get it.


how entitled are you guys?

God has given us enough already. what have we given him? it's up to us what we do with it.