Toyota says it will fight U.S. House electric vehicle tax plan

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Your skeptism is certainly warranted and you bring up some good points.

Again, I'd say first and foremost that the free market had to let this organically come to fruition if it happens.

But gas prices have tripped in 20 years. If they tripped again in the next twenty, I'm sure the motivation would be higher.

As far as transforming the infrastructure and it being impossible, the internet spawned in about the same time period. Where there is a will, there's a way.

It may not be the end all be all, it very well could be a mix for a long time. But there's no harm it having our eggs in different baskets should an emergency force us to speed up innovation in EV.

It's not everything it's cracked up to be yet, and may never live up to what many promise.... But it isn't necessarily bad either if done the right way.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I have no issue with that, and actually I agree. However, that is not how all the Al McGore's look at it!

We spent $4,000,000 dollars trying to do the right thing. $4,000,000 dollars we won't get back. And we get a whopper of an electric bill every month too. And all we got for it was S### on, by a bunch of greenies screaming at the tops of their lungs about what capitalist pigs we were for being so beholden to the oil magnates because we didn't build "thousands" of these charging stations!

If it were up to me, I'd go out there and tear every single one of those brand spanking new charging stations right out of the ground! #### 'em!

ETA - And now we have to have added security patrols, and added towing services, to deal with people doing stupid S### like double parking another EV, unplugging it, and plugging their POS EV in instead. And then when they get towed, and impounded, and fined...just take one guess who's fault they are screaming it is? Yep...OURS! We were obligated to do nothing, but in an effort to do something good, we are now the bad guys!

a reply to: ketsuko

I have been on the road in ice and snow, no issues, but I would not do a 800km travel in such weather. Ice still beats that.

a reply to: crayzeed

You act like I wrote EV is the solution, that's why I dislike commenting about it because there's always those that need something either to be good or bad.

I'm happy with it

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Here the chargers are at Sheetz gas stations, and the customer is charged for it. That makes the most sense for charger rollouts.

Retail could benefit too from it taking a while to charge. Shopping malls could brings some custys in if they put some of the only chargers in town.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Retail could benefit too from it taking a while to charge.

My team is working on/worked on joint deals with Charge Point and a large number of national retail and hospitality chains which will be/are doing the same.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

You are correct, and the future is EV for many applications. Before others get their panties tangled up between their cheeks, the big difference in EV and ICE is that EV will provide the base technology for future energy sources.

People complain about battery tech but forget two things:

- Formula E just started, all the big innovations in ICEs come from racing sport.
- EV means electric vehicle, yes currently it's reliant on battery tech but the important thing is that the mode of movement is not burning up fuel and make pistons do the work, but electromagnetic field doing it. Who knows if in 20 years we might have nuclear batteries or good fuel cells.

Then I frequently read the winter argument, most often by those never even driven in an EV or a high quality (=what will be standard in a few years) at all. The heat problem is laughable argument to me because my EV heats me up faster than any ICE I knew before. Not even Diesels with electric support heaters could do it that quick. It does not kill that much distance and even in winter, with warm clothes anyways.

So many things, at this point in time, just raise my blood pressure because they often come from people who never sat in an EV, heard some things and then have a strong opinion about it, like reality isn't happening.

The only real downsides I have for EV is the range and how long the batteries will be good. Plus there is emotion lacking, but that's the other side of the coin: I've never traveled so comfortable, relaxed and refreshed. It's a whole new quality because the noise emissions are so low. You can hear the birds chirp when it drives by.

I don't think the combustion engine is dead for work related matters though, just for personal travel it, sadly, it is dying. H2O will, at least from German car manufactures, not be available for personal travel. Hyundai has a very promising concept with fuel cells though, but they still run into plate-death due to corrosion.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I made a good chunk on charge point when they SPACed into the stock market.

They look promising.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I think it will be solid state batteries and or fuel cells.

Solid state claims to be better for the environment, get an 80% charge in 15min and have a longer range.

Fuel cells could use natural gas which the US and Europe already have the infrastructure for. This would be a pretty fast transition.

Obviously this assumes some strides in technology. But in all reality, we've done more in less time before. The question is will the market want it. Gas prices have tripled in my lifetime (getting as high as 5x). If they go up like that again we very well need to do it for cost alone.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
I made a good chunk on charge point when they SPACed into the stock market.

They look promising.

Their proposed rollout plans are huge.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Just based off of expected trajectory in Europe it was a no brainer for me (the investment was pre Biden winning).

Speaking of which, I had another good Lick on quantumscape who claims to be breaking through with solid state. VW is a huge investor with them. German automakers have to have a few companies have a robust EV line since a good portion of their sales are to China. The auto industry in Germany rides on that since they're the cash cow for Germany and consequently the EU.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Good move, the EV charging companies are poised for large ongoing gains for the next decade or two at least. I expect some mergers but overall the number of units to be added is tremendous. You know it's serious when the current retail gasoline distribution companies are moving in this direction.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

EV was one of the best things to happen to my portfolio.

And even with my bias, I don't want the government to get too involved since they could prop up the wrong companies and have it flop.

My next big moves will be space related. I think that will be the next EV like boom with super low launch costs now. Low earth orbit constellations are going to be a huge disruption in communication. It will be great at home providing options from borderline monopolized markets... But the big opportunities will be emerging markets like Africa.

I think Africa could be the next China in terms of growth. The Middle class in China is growing and cheap labor is being exported. Also sanctions are having China outsource manufacturing to skirt blockades. Satellites would provide a quicker on boarding with less monies than a land based.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

SpaceX is another client of ours poised for big things.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
with respect but i cant find a better way to put this but your claims of 100KM (67 miles) on 7 min charge is pure BS at best.
maybe, JUST MAYBE on a brand new battery, with a really good charger and in short all ideal lab conditions.
but if in 7 min i cant get more than maybe a few min of talk time on my cell phone with a much smaller battery and rapid charger... how in hades are you getting that on a car battery that is bigger by factor of 100+ and a car drawing by even greater factor of power.

hell by that number on "7 minutes" for 67 miles (us) then you should have a full 400 mile charge in aproximately 110 min (one hour 40 min) .. we all know that isnt accurate.

btw for accuracy here is the average industry standard

Home Charging: Get about 36 miles of charge in 12 hours with a domestic outlet, or 0-100% charge in about 9.5 hours with the Tesla Wall Connector. Public Charging: At a rate of 25 miles for every hour of charge, DC fast chargers provide 0-80% charge in about 10 hours

so with respect your claims are pure bulvine waste

scrounger

a reply to: CriticalStinker

on paper EV shows great profit

but the elephant / tiger in the room is all of the EV business is dependent on government subsidies at every level..
from the companies making the vehicle, companies making specialty parts to the actual sales of said EV

the cold hard truth is without them the EV industry would fold faster than a dominos pizza box maker (thats fast).

at this time overall the tech isnt up to claims, the application (outside of SPECIFIC limited uses , most of which already existed (ex golf carts and kids cars) ) , infrastructure (charging stations), and most important.... POWER GENERATING CAPACITY.. the last alone was a problem well before the EV craze for DECADES.

The "XX will be better in just a few years" claim is also pure dreaming

im sorry but overall EV is an unsustainable without massive government help boondoggle that HAS POTENTIAL in the far future, but as the cheese it commercials says... not quite there yet.

time to stop the subsidies outside of research and wait until it matures to an economic viable option.

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

I don't think EVs have to be more expensive than standard gas vehicles.

As far as subsides go... Oil and domestic manufactured have seen their fill. Foreign policy decisions have been made with the interest of oil and bailouts given to domestic car companies years back.

A tax credit for domestic EV is similar to a tariff on foreign cars. It doesn't necessarily generate as much revenue, but the consumer has already paid income tax, and will have to pay sales and property tax after. Hell, the consumer deserves a break.

Do you think that Tesla has taken more subsidies than Ford or GM?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: scrounger

I don't think EVs have to be more expensive than standard gas vehicles.

if it becomes economically viable then it wont be.. but it isnt and to be frank no where even close.

As far as subsides go... Oil and domestic manufactured have seen their fill.

fair point.. except both at minimum give back for what they get (jobs, supplies, ect). if push came to shove they can stand on their own but currently its a "bribe" or "payback for political contributions". they do not rely on it to survive.. EV industry (at this point) cannot stand on their own.

Foreign policy decisions have been made with the interest of oil and bailouts given to domestic car companies years back.

key word.. bailouts (IMO most undeserved) . they were economic viable and some (car makers) made poor decisions. again EV in no way is economically viable and to be blunt, not even in the first steps of it.

A tax credit for domestic EV is similar to a tariff on foreign cars. It doesn't necessarily generate as much revenue, but the consumer has already paid income tax, and will have to pay sales and property tax after. Hell, the consumer deserves a break.

Do you think that Tesla has taken more subsidies than Ford or GM?

hmm overall id say YES.. because Ford adn GM started their companies and for most of their history financed by themselves and run without government money... EV has been funded from start to now ..


Look EV has potential and CURRENT LIMITED APPLICATION/USE...
but as an industry and viable tech.. it just ISNT THERE.
It can ONLY SURVIVE with government subsidies..
from making of the batteries and cars to selling them
take that away and it will not may fall faster than a bird turd to earth..

that doesnt take into account the FACT our power grid can AT BEST barely supply current needs and in many places like CA fails at that..
the only way to have the power needed is to add more gas/coal but in reality NUCLEAR.. all of which the same EV supporters HATE and block at every opportunity.

now you want an example of government (for the most part, there are some flaws ) helping new tech to viability is LED lightbulbs.

had help to get off the ground, now self sufficient due to people WANTING THEM and getting a price (without support) they pay for.

scrounger

Actually I would think a rechargeable car fleet is a stupid idea based on the current technology. It's using mostly dirty coal based electricity to charge lithium batteries which is a rare metal that's hard to get to. And hard to recycle once used up. Not to mention the upgrades needed to the grid to charge all those batteries.

We would be much better off looking for alternatives to lithium batteries and and turning it into the Betamax of the 2020s as soon as possible. I posted this thread 2 years ago as a possible alternative fuel cell.

Single use fuel cells that are easily recyclable. No need to invest in infrastructure except for some storage sheds out back of current gas stations.

a reply to: scrounger

With respect but you're full of BS. This ATS, is what I wrote about having no clue but a strong opinion.
If the battery is low on charge it charges very fast.

After only 10min, 43% charge.
Indeed 40min for almost full charge.
Will you apologize for calling me a bull#ter?

Here is "evidence" LMFAO