Why don’t you want the vaccine?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

If we make it about this, which is really what it is about, then we win. If we are defensive, we will lose. We have to be smart against the ingenious propaganda machine we currently exist in.

I disagree. I think this is playing their game, because it still allows for arguments and subjective opinions to rule the day.

It's about personal autonomy and free will. Our bodies are our property. We make our own decisions about what does or does not go in our body. Our body, our choice.

If we must argue our autonomy, THEN we explain and justify our autonomy by pointing out the negative consequences of trusting others -- who we cannot trust -- to enforce their will on us for their own purposes, often to their benefit and our harm. It isn't just about vaccines.

It's about power. If they can force this, then they can force that, and they can force the other thing.

I’ll play Devils Advocate: you don’t have full autonomous control over your body in a society especially when it affects others. This is why people who drunk drive are put in jail or why we don’t tolerate illegal drug use and have seat belt laws. You’re just delusional and being selfish because you’re brainwashed.


Do you see how I was easily able to argue with you? You will then argue back and I will argue back and nobody will agree.

Who would argue that the government, media and big pharma are trustworthy though?

originally posted by: DarkestConspiracyMoon

So basically you just ignored every good reason on this thread, got it.

Did I miss any of your "good reasons"...lol

globalist bioweapon to cull the population
Joe Biden and Kamala harris told me not to trust it
I don't trust this government as far as I can spit.
refuse to take an emergency experimental substance that in my opinion is more dangerous to me than Sars-CoV-2.
Because 99.96% recovery rate means the China virus is most certainly one of the least harmful viruses in existence

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: DarkestConspiracyMoon

So basically you just ignored every good reason on this thread, got it.

Did I miss any of your "good reasons"...lol

globalist bioweapon to cull the population
Joe Biden and Kamala harris told me not to trust it
I don't trust this government as far as I can spit.
refuse to take an emergency experimental substance that in my opinion is more dangerous to me than Sars-CoV-2.
Because 99.96% recovery rate means the China virus is most certainly one of the least harmful viruses in existence

Lol this made me chuckle for some reason. It either proves that a large segment of the population is paranoid OR that we are in unprecedented times.

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

I have a couple different replies:

I describe the multiple colleges my genius dad went to, and all the titles he has had, his medical background starting in 1945, and his strong provaccine stance his whole life, up until last year........


The other answer is

Its toxic, and I expect everyone who accepted it will suffer a very horrible death from cytokine storm within 3-5 years max.

Then if its a guy, I ask them what the most important job is that they have in their life. Then I tell them, its protecting your family! Protecting your wife and kids from harm. Then I tell them " Im sorry, You have failed"! Then I show them my back, just like their illegitimate President does.

Sometimes I throw in : " Id rather be sent to a concentration camp, and be executed".

originally posted by: AcrobaticDreams

Lol this made me chuckle for some reason. It either proves that a large segment of the population is paranoid OR that we are in unprecedented times.

All I said was at this point in time people's minds are made up and if you have already decided not to get it by now I don't see that view changing.

I just see it as a sorry life to live if one goes through it thinking everyone is bad, everything about the Goverment is out to get you, everything science does is to cull the herd etc etc.


With all the crap on social media I don't blame people for being paranoid. If all this happened in 1990 lets say we would see maybe 1% of what is poured into our heads today. Even with the Goverment, they screw up go one way then another, say things not really totally true by opposing their own comments at some point after they said them mainly because they are talking everyday about it, or every hour. Say this, no say this, no say this over and over in some never ending struggle to keep supplying information that typically ends up just confusing people.

a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

I’ll play Devils Advocate...

Okay!

...you don’t have full autonomous control over your body in a society especially when it affects others.

Actually, yes, I do. And it is self-evident -- anything I can do for myself and by myself... including saying "no."

This is why people who drunk drive are put in jail or why we don’t tolerate illegal drug use and have seat belt laws.

All of which is done in violation of our absolute inalienable Natural Rights as declared in the Declaration of Independence, and enumerated in the Constitution including but not limited to the 9th and 10th Amendments. It is the foundation of our Organic and Constitutional law, and all other laws are in violation of both if they violate our self-evident Natural Laws.

Nor can any law stop me from doing anything, or force me to do anything. It can only be imposed upon me at the barrel of a government gun, and/or punish me after the fact. The force may encourage/influence me to choose the "lawful" path to preclude such government force/punishment, but that is still my choice.

You’re just delusional and being selfish because you’re brainwashed.

Nope. Not delusional at all. Nor am I brainwashed. I spelled it out quite clearly, in no uncertain terms. Fundamental principles are just that.

Nor is it selfish for me to take personal responsibility and control over my needs and circumstances. Especially as I am making no effort to stop anyone else from doing the same, or in any way forcing anyone to do or not do anything. I am quite happy, in fact, to find and implement ways that help everyone do the same for their own needs and circumstances, voluntarily and without force.

Do you see how I was easily able to argue with you? You will then argue back and I will argue back and nobody will agree.

Maybe... maybe not... let's see where you can take this first....

ETA:

Who would argue that the government, media and big pharma are trustworthy though?

Unfortunately, many. Those who do not understand regulatory capture, for example.

originally posted by: carewemust

Those who contracted and recovered have a smaller chance of catching Covid-19 again than those who get vaccinated to prevent catching it the first time.

I have seen arguments both ways so I think the jury is still out.

But I think we pulled away from the main purpose of the vaccine and that should be the same as how we been doing the flu vaccine for decades. We mainly want to protect the old and high risk groups to get over the hump of the first time getting it. If you get through the first time without any big issues why would you not get over it the same or better on the 2nd 3rd 4th whatever time.

Herd immunity with these viruses really doesn't mean people will stop getting them, but it would slow it down, so why not just let people get it and get over it while protecting the old and high risk since now with the vaccine we can do that.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: AcrobaticDreams

Lol this made me chuckle for some reason. It either proves that a large segment of the population is paranoid OR that we are in unprecedented times.

All I said was at this point in time people's minds are made up and if you have already decided not to get it by now I don't see that view changing.

I just see it as a sorry life to live if one goes through it thinking everyone is bad, everything about the Goverment is out to get you, everything science does is to cull the herd etc etc.


With all the crap on social media I don't blame people for being paranoid. If all this happened in 1990 lets say we would see maybe 1% of what is poured into our heads today. Even with the Goverment, they screw up go one way then another, say things not really totally true by opposing their own comments at some point after they said them mainly because they are talking everyday about it, or every hour. Say this, no say this, no say this over and over in some never ending struggle to keep supplying information that typically ends up just confusing people.

I agree. I am relatively self aware and definitely ask if we are just severely paranoid because of the very REAL alarm bells the government has put out over the years? It is possible. It could also be that these people can see more clearly because they have stopped trusting the system a long time ago.

originally posted by: AcrobaticDreams

Who would argue that the government, media and big pharma are trustworthy though?

I think we are dumping too many people into one bucket.

1. Vast majority of doctors say we should get the vaccine, but they are not saying we should be forced to, a rather big difference there.

2. Big Pharma is not mandating force to get the vaccine either. All those researchers/doctors working for them in their life long careers are not evil and are really trying to do good in the world. Big Pharma can look like money grubbing assholes at times, but they have a lot of people working for them that are very smart and truly believe in what they do for mankind.

3. The current Fed Goverment and many liberal state are who is driving this draconian rule to "force" everyone to get the vaccine no matter how it may affect different age groups or if different age group really need it or not. They push the fears and are driving the train in this stupid idea that everyone needs to get vaccinated.

4. Media has just become the lap dogs for the liberal agenda and everything we see going on IS the liberal agenda.

So we really need to keep an eye on the ball as to who is F'ing up everyone's lives and who is throwing everyone's freedoms out the window. I hope 2022 and 2024 elections reflect all this.

Cause I refuse to give useless ****s, political or corporate any credibility, even I do get it, since they can't even catch a cold.

They can't even save themselves from the madness they have brought unto themselves.

Like I said, even if I do get it....I REFUSE to give them any credibility, or 5 star Google review, cause they are useless ****'s.

What goes around, will come abound.

originally posted by: AcrobaticDreams
This is a common question that is asked and I find a lot of unvaccinated people tend to go off on tangents and sound a little unstable compared to the surety of the medical establishment. There will be a gradual demonizing of unvaccinated people (they will show them to be Proud Boys type people that have a slightly deranged/dangerous streak) and a lot of unvaccinated people, who are usually on the fringe already, will play into this false stereotype.

When someone asks me why, I turn the question around and say: “The media, government and big pharma are all the ones saying I should get it. What have they done to be trustworthy?”

Nobody defends these groups. Even the most diehard pro vax/covid agenda people wouldn’t defend them. If we make it about this, which is really what it is about, then we win. If we are defensive, we will lose. We have to be smart against the ingenious propaganda machine we currently exist in.

Natural immunity is vastly more protective than the vaccines. I've survived COVID-19 and subsequent exposures (3 confirmed COVID-19 exposures in August alone). Risk is cumulative not boolean. You're not trading risk of death from COVID-19 with a reduced risk of death from mRNA side effects, you're taking on both risks. People still believe 100% vaccination equals 0% COVID-19, and the data just doesn't support such magical thinking. No mRNA for me. I'll happily take a protein subunit vaccine a couple years after an FDA approved one comes along though.

a reply to: SentientBunnySuit

I don't want to be part of an experiment, and it bothers me that we just gave away all repercussions to these pharma companies if stuff actually happens to me because of the vaccine and their negligence. I also believe that all the numbers since day 1 are so far skewed that we will never know the real numbers ( I think they have been highly inflated).

It also is a red flag to me about the push to vaccine when it has not been done for the flu which had regular vaccines available every year with sometimes vaccines that covered numerous variants. Doing some quick research since 2012 over 300,000 people died from the flu that we know of and countless more became ill. This caused big issues with hospital being used and businesses running short staffed. It is potentially deadly to certain groups of the population as well. Why now the push for this disease which has similar mortality rates and the stats have shown the COVID vaccine doesn't prevent anything. Why were we not pushing for masks during the flu season? Were those flu deaths in the past just not as important? Did not protecting the ill or compromised not matter in 2019?

We've listened to guys like Obama, Gates, Schwab, and other tell us we have too many people on the planet and we need to thin the herd and now all of a sudden they turn around and have this vaccine available to save lives? If I just take science completely out of play just that reason alone is alarming to me.

a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

I only listen to the experts at treating Covid patients successfully. No one pushing the vaccines is an expert at that.

That's my answer.

“The media, government and big pharma are all the ones saying I should get it. What have they done to be trustworthy?”

So if the MSM says it's sunny in Hawaii (and it is) then you don't believe it.

That's the problem. You don't care about protecting yourself and others from a possible Chinese Bio Weapon because, well, not because of what the science is telling you, or your doctor, but more your mistrust of Don Lemon.

Hmm.

a reply to: AcrobaticDreams

AcrobaticDreams,

I am part of six (6) generations that did / do not take vaccinations. Perhaps we are a part of the control group. Idk.

REGARDLESS,

For me... I do not endorse touching or playing with bacteria, breathing bacteria, drinking bacteria, eating bacteria and certainly not injecting bacteria.

And one may substitute any of the pathogens for bacteria.

originally posted by: canucks555
“The media, government and big pharma are all the ones saying I should get it. What have they done to be trustworthy?”

So if the MSM says it's sunny in Hawaii (and it is) then you don't believe it.

That's the problem. You don't care about protecting yourself and others from a possible Chinese Bio Weapon because, well, not because of what the science is telling you, or your doctor, but more your mistrust of Don Lemon.

Hmm.

No. We don't trust whoever it is that publishes the "official science"

originally posted by: canucks555

That's the problem. You don't care about protecting yourself and others from a possible Chinese Bio Weapon because, well, not because of what the science is telling you, or your doctor, but more your mistrust of Don Lemon.

Hmm.

Drop the "protecting others" crap, everyone knows the vaxxed can contract and spread the virus too. If that's why you got it then you were fooled.

a reply to: Xtrozero


We need to be able to be inclusive in our argument. To say this is because of liberals, you now alienated many people because they now view you as a Republican and they may dislike Republicans. It is also not true this is JUST a liberal agenda. This is a deep state agenda which is why the whole world is doing this. Republicans, while more preferred right now, are not the answer. Remember Afghanistan? That debacle was started by Republicans. I remember the War on Terror and that was not a liberal thing.

originally posted by:

This is why people who drunk drive are put in jail or why we don’t tolerate illegal drug use and have seat belt laws.

All of which is done in violation of our absolute inalienable Natural Rights as declared in the Declaration of Independence, and enumerated in the Constitution including but not limited to the 9th and 10th Amendments. It is the foundation of our Organic and Constitutional law, and all other laws are in violation of both if they violate our self-evident Natural Laws.

Nor can any law stop me from doing anything, or force me to do anything. It can only be imposed upon me at the barrel of a government gun, and/or punish me after the fact. The force may encourage/influence me to choose the "lawful" path to preclude such government force/punishment, but that is still my choice.
.

So you confirm that these laws, which are there and you follow are a violation but you still adhere to them anyway. So getting a vaccine to help reduce hospitalizations is something that you shouldn’t have much of a problem with either since you’re already complying with laws that are good for society overall.

Do you see how we can go back and forth on this? The only thing it accomplishes is wasting both people’s time.

originally posted by: canucks555
“The media, government and big pharma are all the ones saying I should get it. What have they done to be trustworthy?”

So if the MSM says it's sunny in Hawaii (and it is) then you don't believe it.

That's the problem. You don't care about protecting yourself and others from a possible Chinese Bio Weapon because, well, not because of what the science is telling you, or your doctor, but more your mistrust of Don Lemon.

Hmm.

The MSM doesn't say that though, do they? They say "the sunny weather in Hawaii is the result of global warming which is your fault, peasant, because you asked for a plastic straw." And certainly never, "no billionaires NEED a private jet and their own private island." The media says everything to shape the official narrative. The era of the objective journalist seeking truth wherever it leads is dead. For example, nearly every other country acknowledges at least a passing role for natural immunity, most acknowledge that it's an order of magnitude superior to current vaccines against Delta. You won't hear a whisper of that in North America because it counters the narrative.