How do you convince someone otherwise who thinks all these UAP's are ours?

Show your friend the Astronaut Man at the Nazca Lines. Case closed.

You can’t convince anyone of anything. Convey the evidence as clearly as possible, without bias and let them make up their own mind.

It’s just that simple about most things.

originally posted by: game over man
Show your friend the Astronaut Man at the Nazca Lines. Case closed.

Why?

The geoglyphs are not visible from ground-level, which has led many to seek answers of their origin off-world.

However, Mr Wagner shot down the theory arguing even 250 miles up in space he could not see them all at once.

He said: "I decided to capture even before flight, but managed to find it only after several flyovers and using the 1,200mm lens.

"And even after capturing them several times and every time we fly past I can't notice them at once, so I think they aren't meant to be observed from space!"

www.express.co.uk...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Arbitrageur

The only video I have seen that I found truly interesting was one made on a navy ship where the UFO appears to go into the water. But part of what makes it interesting was that a search yielded no wreckage ... but I don't think the Navy confirmed that any search took place.

I don't see a UFO going into the water. If it's what I think it may be and they searched for it, they are literally idiots, so I would need to see proof they really searched to believe it.

All I saw was an infrared dot that could be a glare from the tail end of a jet, which when flying over the horizon, would disappear due to curvature of the Earth, not due to the plane going into the water.



Here's a screenshot from the beginning of that video, and note it's not a "sphere" as some people call it, it's wider than it is tall, you could even say somewhat "tic-tac" shaped since people seem to love that description now:



Now compare that IR signature to these four IR signatures which are also "Tic-Tac" shaped, do you see the similarity?

www.youtube.com...


I see so much bovine excrement posted along with that story. They posted a radar video which supposedly "confirms" the sighting but they never say which radar blip supposedly correlates with that "transmedium craft" and I think none of them do so my BS meter is pegged out on that entire story. More videos have also surfaced which are also total crap.



They will never release all the real radar data so we are left with so many BS claims coming from George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell. Corbell must be the worst film maker in history if he cant tell the difference between an out of focus film and a pyramid, in another video from that same time frame:

originally posted by: Gandalf77
I consider him to be more than a reliable witness.

I've come to the conclusion that even the most reliable witness is not reliable when faced with unusual phenomena they don't understand. Now if he identified a known object, he might be extremely reliable. But unknown objects? There are too many ways to misinterpret them and our minds play tricks on us. This is not speculation, it's documented scientifically.

There's a reason for the saying "pics or it didn't happen" when it comes to extraordinary claims. Now that everyone has cams taking photos of everything everywhere and all we have are still crap UFO videos shows that we still have no good documentation of anything extraordinary, just potential witness misperceptions, and fuzzy dots that could be anything. The only semi-interesting videos are hoaxes and some art projects which have been debunked.

Even when we do have video, the most credible eyewitnesses can get confused. Here is a general with decades of flying experience saying a plane is not a plane and he's sure of it, just because he's faced with some unusual stimuli, so if this man can be wrong, anybody can be wrong with unidentified phenomena:

General McInerney "That Is A Missile Shot From A Submarine!"

1:50 "I am absolutely certain that is not an aircraft"

It's an aircraft.
No witness is as reliable as you seem to think when it comes to UFOs or other unusual phenomena.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Well, the witness I’m referring to didn’t attempt to offer any explanations; in fact, he made it a point not to offer anything other than an informed description of what he witnessed: A high-flying object moving at a good clip that suddenly stopped in midair and took off 180 degrees in the other direction at such speeds that it was out of sight in less than a second or so.

All he would say is that he wasn’t aware of any aircraft that could pull off that maneuver; it did things that were beyond his ability as a career pilot to explain. He was quite the natural skeptic too, I should add.

originally posted by: NightVision
a reply to: spacemanjupiter


"The question we should ask ourselves is not 'are aliens visiting earth? There's not enough hard evidence for that. The question we should be asking ourselves is 'do these Govt reported UFO incidents warrant further investigation?'

An excerpt from a post I made in another thread, which I think warrants reiterating:

"I would also like to suggest, very strongly, that an effort be made to reach out to the FAA, through the Secretary for the US Department of Transportation, directing the FAA to REQUIRE all professional pilots, ATC personnel, and flight line crew to immediately report sighting of, or contact with UAP's.

If this phenomenon is to, finally, be taken seriously, then we need all hands on deck, and that means ending the stigma of reporting "UFOs" ASAP.

And the best way to do that, I think, is to make such reports Mandatory."

a reply to: spacemanjupiter
Do you have proof that they are not ours?

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Well, the witness I’m referring to didn’t attempt to offer any explanations; in fact, he made it a point not to offer anything other than an informed description of what he witnessed: A high-flying object moving at a good clip that suddenly stopped in midair and took off 180 degrees in the other direction at such speeds that it was out of sight in less than a second or so.

All he would say is that he wasn’t aware of any aircraft that could pull off that maneuver; it did things that were beyond his ability as a career pilot to explain. He was quite the natural skeptic too, I should add.

We aren't video recorders though, and our eyewitness accounts can't be treated as such. If he's truly a skeptic, the first thing he should be skeptical of is the accuracy of his own observations. In fact that's exactly how this scientist looks at the UFO he saw that defied the laws of physics, he asks what's more likely that it actually did that or that his mind was playing tricks on him. Obviously he feels the latter is more likely as any skeptic who had researched human misperceptions and the UFO subject would do.


Time 00:50: "Psychologists have shown we can't trust our brains to tell the truth. It's easy to fool ourselves. I saw something, but what's more likely, that I saw an alien spacecraft or that my brain misinterpreted the data my eyes were giving it?"

Unlike Webb, most people seem to have far more confidence in their perceptual abilities than they actually have, and the same goes for memory. Even if you demonstrate to someone that their memory is wrong they refuse to believe it and make up silly alternate universe stories instead of accepting the truth.

Webb is more skeptical of alien intelligence than I am, though people need to remember that technological intelligence has been extremely rare even on Earth, where almost the entire existence of the Earth had no intelligence that could build tech like radios. Any kind of human intelligence has only been around for the blink of an eye on age of the Earth time scales.

Remember when we used to use arrows to kill people…..we now use guns and bombs to kill people….but an arrow will still kill you…….

Maybe they forgot about the arrow…….

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: Akaspeedy
I thought this was already in the public domain…..it was radar…..apparently……radar affected that ufo and brought it down

No, hadn't heard that, but everybody knows high frequency radio waves pack quite a wallop. I live in fear of a WiFi building collapse. The aliens could have forgotten to tell the crew to turn off their portable devices, too. Sad Bob Marley wasn't around. They could have simply played Jammin over those alien, anti grav speakers. You'd think an advanced alien civilization would have already known how many aircraft are brought down by radar. You must be a scientist!

a reply to: spacemanjupiter
ask them to prove it.

originally posted by: XipeTotex
it would not surprise me that ancient/timeless beings have left blueprints in other dimensions that are accessible with chemical keys. [...] We know nothing.

We know that we know something, but we don't know everything.

If I was an alien that wanted to leave me a little piece of information that would only be discovered by the living things on the planet if they developed technologically advanced enough, I'd encode something into root DNA that would be a part of every living thing on the planet. You could encode it using a virus. An equation. A map. A diagram of some kind. Something that says, "Greetings! Good for you. You made it this far. Here are some things you'll need to know to get to the next level."

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: game over man
Show your friend the Astronaut Man at the Nazca Lines. Case closed.

No, that's very flimsy and ambiguous. Even if they could be seen from space contrary to OccamsRazor04's post saying they can't, they still would be ambiguous at best because we know numerous cultures have had beliefs in paranormal or supernatural beings or "gods", some of whom live in the sky or "the heavens". As far as I can tell from dozens of religions which all have different beliefs, none of them have any proof any of these invisible sky beings they believe in are real. One scientists claimed that superstitious beliefs in gods is so ubiquitous in various cultures that maybe there's something in our genes that pre-disposes us toward such supernatural beliefs. The Age of Enlightenment impacted human thought in questioning paranormal beliefs quite widely, but given how many people still seem to have them it's almost as if they ignore the age of enlightenment and persist with superstitions from the dark ages.

Unlocking The Mystery Of Peru’s Massive Nazca Lines

So did aliens play a role in the creation of the Nazca lines? Probably not.

Even if you’re inclined to believe in the existence of aliens who visit earth, there’s not a lot of reason to suspect they had a hand in this particular mystery.

That’s because when it comes to the “how” of the Nazca lines, there’s not really anything left to solve.

Unlike the pyramids and Stonehenge, which both raise lingering questions about how the ancients who built them achieved such technologically difficult feats, the Nazca lines can clearly be made with technology available before the Common Era...

While the Nazca lines look best from the window of an airplane, all of them are also perfectly visible from elevated land, like the plain’s surrounding foothills — including the one Peruvian archaeologist Xesspe was hiking up when he spotted the glyphs. The Nazca could have easily directed operations or checked much of their work from nearby hills...

No alien intervention was needed, either during construction or after...

National Geographic’s Johan Reinhard thinks it’s more likely the lines were markers of the sites of religious rituals, especially those centered around water.

In such a dry climate, water would have been a going concern for the Nazca — a preoccupation some archeologists see in the biomorphs the ancient people chose to carve into the earth.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: XipeTotex
it would not surprise me that ancient/timeless beings have left blueprints in other dimensions that are accessible with chemical keys. [...] We know nothing.

We know that we know something, but we don't know everything.

If I was an alien that wanted to leave me a little piece of information that would only be discovered by the living things on the planet if they developed technologically advanced enough, I'd encode something into root DNA that would be a part of every living thing on the planet. You could encode it using a virus. An equation. A map. A diagram of some kind. Something that says, "Greetings! Good for you. You made it this far. Here are some things you'll need to know to get to the next level."

But if you decode the message and it promises fabulous prizes if you forward the interstellar chain letter encoded in DNA to at least two other planets, you might be disappointed.

If You Were a Secret Message, Where in the Human Genome Would You Hide?

This story is not the only instance of this concept, which has appeared enough in sci-fi to be the subject of parody: The characters in the online comic strip Dresden Codak find a message hidden within terrestrial DNA that turns out to be an interstellar chain letter promising “fabulous prizes” for anyone who “forward[s] this to at least TWO of ur [sic] favorite planets.”

If you’re looking to convince someone uap/ufos are aliens
1. Prove alien life of any form.
2. Prove ufo/UAP originate off world
3. Prove ufo/UAP have connection with alien intelligence
4. Don’t offer conjecture and speculation as your evidence

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

originally posted by: data5091
a reply to: spacemanjupiter
ask them to prove it.

No known flying tech belongs to any form of life but ours, unless you can show otherwise. What more proof is needed?

originally posted by: Akaspeedy
So he thinks, spherical shaped, triangular shaped, cigar shaped, boomerang shaped and glowing balls of light are all ‘ours’

Yes and imagine all the people who saw a SR 71 Blackbird in the skies from 1964-80s ?
Want to bet what those people reported seeing ?
There is no way aliens with space travel capabilities would visit us !!!! We are apes with nuclear weapons.
All those crafts are terrestrial.

Tie them to a chair and slap them with a fish until they verbally affirm their agreement with you.

If aliens visited us two things would happen .
1: They destroy us , because we are cavemen with thermal nuclear weapons.
2: Only observe from a far distance, because we so violent.
We built the SR 71 Blackbird in the 50s/ early sixties ?
So just imagine what America, Germany and China have floating in our skies or under our oceans ?

originally posted by: Homefree
Tie them to a chair and slap them with a fish until they verbally affirm their agreement with you.

No one expects the Salmon Inquisition .

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: game over man
Show your friend the Astronaut Man at the Nazca Lines. Case closed.

No, that's very flimsy and ambiguous. Even if they could be seen from space contrary to OccamsRazor04's post saying they can't, they still would be ambiguous at best because we know numerous cultures have had beliefs in paranormal or supernatural beings or "gods", some of whom live in the sky or "the heavens". As far as I can tell from dozens of religions which all have different beliefs, none of them have any proof any of these invisible sky beings they believe in are real. One scientists claimed that superstitious beliefs in gods is so ubiquitous in various cultures that maybe there's something in our genes that pre-disposes us toward such supernatural beliefs. The Age of Enlightenment impacted human thought in questioning paranormal beliefs quite widely, but given how many people still seem to have them it's almost as if they ignore the age of enlightenment and persist with superstitions from the dark ages.

Unlocking The Mystery Of Peru’s Massive Nazca Lines

So did aliens play a role in the creation of the Nazca lines? Probably not.

Even if you’re inclined to believe in the existence of aliens who visit earth, there’s not a lot of reason to suspect they had a hand in this particular mystery.

That’s because when it comes to the “how” of the Nazca lines, there’s not really anything left to solve.

Unlike the pyramids and Stonehenge, which both raise lingering questions about how the ancients who built them achieved such technologically difficult feats, the Nazca lines can clearly be made with technology available before the Common Era...

While the Nazca lines look best from the window of an airplane, all of them are also perfectly visible from elevated land, like the plain’s surrounding foothills — including the one Peruvian archaeologist Xesspe was hiking up when he spotted the glyphs. The Nazca could have easily directed operations or checked much of their work from nearby hills...

No alien intervention was needed, either during construction or after...

National Geographic’s Johan Reinhard thinks it’s more likely the lines were markers of the sites of religious rituals, especially those centered around water.

In such a dry climate, water would have been a going concern for the Nazca — a preoccupation some archeologists see in the biomorphs the ancient people chose to carve into the earth.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: XipeTotex
it would not surprise me that ancient/timeless beings have left blueprints in other dimensions that are accessible with chemical keys. [...] We know nothing.

We know that we know something, but we don't know everything.

If I was an alien that wanted to leave me a little piece of information that would only be discovered by the living things on the planet if they developed technologically advanced enough, I'd encode something into root DNA that would be a part of every living thing on the planet. You could encode it using a virus. An equation. A map. A diagram of some kind. Something that says, "Greetings! Good for you. You made it this far. Here are some things you'll need to know to get to the next level."

But if you decode the message and it promises fabulous prizes if you forward the interstellar chain letter encoded in DNA to at least two other planets, you might be disappointed.

If You Were a Secret Message, Where in the Human Genome Would You Hide?

This story is not the only instance of this concept, which has appeared enough in sci-fi to be the subject of parody: The characters in the online comic strip Dresden Codak find a message hidden within terrestrial DNA that turns out to be an interstellar chain letter promising “fabulous prizes” for anyone who “forward[s] this to at least TWO of ur [sic] favorite planets.”

Bingo ! What we choose to believe is based on genetics. I agree 100% . I believe in alien life , just don’t believe they visited us . These ancient alien dudes get annoying. They claim Ancient building tech was given to ancient man by aliens ????
Then why did they not use lasers and quantum drive tech to at least make a wheel for themselves.
Tight fitting rocks in a mountain temple is now proof that aliens in ships with warp drives visited man ????
Yeah right