How do you convince someone otherwise who thinks all these UAP's are ours?

Me and a friend were having a friendly debate on all the UFO/UAP activity over the years. He believes it's all ours, experimental projects and craft via US black projects ran by groups unbeknownst to the public facing government we call congress. I stated that I wasn't making the claim that they are aliens, but that it's pretty clear they are not ours, and our government is fairly confident they are not Chinese or Russian. So what other options are there?

He insists they are still ours. I presented some issues, such as these objects have been recorded for decades going back to at least the 40s where they ('foo fighters') ran circles around Americans and Germans. He still thinks we had this technology even back then. I then suggested there are reports going even further back than the 40s. He then claimed that Tesla's work provided the frame work for this technology decades before even WW2. I then suggested there are reports even before Tesla of these objects buzzing around. He dismissed those and also hints from stories in the bible.

I don't insist these are aliens, but I think it's pretty far fetched to consider that we had this technology during WW2 or before. Am I wrong to assume that? It seems to me that it's very unlikely these are ours, and if it's possibly the Chinese or Russians, you better HOPE they are alien. Then, there's another possibility. They are terrestrial but went underground or under the oceans long, long ago. I try to come up with arguments such as, why would our own meddle with nuclear installation sites such as Malmstrom back in 1968? Just to test and see if we could shut down our own missile sites, apparently.

How do you convince someone that it's most likely not ours, whether it's alien or not? Is it just too difficult to make this argument? Are there any reliable reports before Tesla's time that are difficult to dismiss? I suppose if there isn't, anyone can easily just dismiss this whole thing by bringing up Tesla's work, T Townsend Brown, or black projects dating back before the 40s and just claim it's ours without even welcoming any kind of debate. Maybe he's right?

Maybe the future 'ours'?

So he thinks, spherical shaped, triangular shaped, cigar shaped, boomerang shaped and glowing balls of light are all ‘ours’

Some are natural phenomena that we haven't figured out yet
Nothing magical or mystical at all .

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

I’m sure there is more advanced life out there somewhere. No doubt. Life is everywhere, from toxic environments to high altitude, to the deepest parts of the oceans. Bugbears on the moon,or whatever those microscopic bears are called.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are entire civilizations out there in open space. Building colonies of space dust villages. All of these would resemble tough shelled beetles with telepathy or some kind of insect that can live in very thin atmosphere (space).

But I don’t trust the government. Not any of them from my country or not.
Why should I, based off of known history?

If there are civilizations that are so advanced that they can come here, then they would be intelligent enough to know not to talk to trump Putin Biden chi etc.

They’d probably hang with tribal village types from the Amazon. Or at trailer parks in Wyoming.

What I think we are witnessing is the slow drip of project blue beam. Make every single part perfect to set the ultimate fake narrative of: insert whatever world control you’d like.
First, they get the military to be ‘tricked’ and mislead into interpreting raw data with excellent hologram tech.
Once this ball gets rolling there’s no telling how far this thing will go.

We could have massive waves of young troops signing up to go the ‘space war’. It’d be just people getting shipped into a void.

This is total bs but a lot of us are already ‘believing’ it and are on the path to an alternative reality that they will demand you accept as Reality.

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

You can't convince him because there are no facts, just speculation on both your sides of the argument. In other words, you both have opinions but neither of you have facts to prove them one way or the other.

why try? as things stand it's pretty much a matter of personal belief (pending the invasion/landing on the white house lawn).

Why do you need to convince him?

but if he thinks they're ours

then he must admit there is a breakaway civilization or elite controlling them? i mean they've been seen for centuries or more

if he disputes that to back up his own "they're ours" position then you know his position is entrenched and its not even worth further debate

many people who ignore critical relevant data arent interested in getting to the truth

They're only interested in supporting a position based on the limitations of their open mindedness

They know its an important and relevant part of the question but ignore it, that is not scientific its ignorance

Im a believer in the fact there are advanced aerial vehicles, ive seen many, i recorded many, ive seen many with many otrher people over nearly 40 years

ill never pretend i know what they're or where they come from... i dont particularly care either, but the biggest CRINGE for me is when people say so you think theyre aliens

My response is always... Hey listen, i dont give a monkeys, thats never been of interest to me, their abilities/technology has always been the biggest interest wow factor to me, i love aircraft specifically WWII and military that was my first love before dabbling in UFO UAPs their performance

So i often say to these people.... Aliens? YOU think they're aliens? i never said that... I DONT CARE BUT... Its obviously AND 100% sure aliens are out there, isn't it? its too vast... its too big, the odds are too astronomically in favor right?

The question is ARE THEY COMING HERE? can they get here?

And if that possibility doesn't fall into their heads naturally, that its every bit as possible but more likely that than tech we have been concealing for hundreds of years

Then don't bother... there are people that believe COVID is a mass killer virus and we should hide under the beds forever, they're most likely scared of the implications, they're most likely closed minded, they're most likely low IQ, they're most likely entrenched ideologues or mentally ill, whatever the case you shouldn't care, just find people who are open and love to solve problems with logic and scientific methods of evaluation, because it is those above mindsets who refused to believe the earth was the center of the universe or round

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

Here is my logic problem.

Either they want to remain hidden or they do not care if they remain hidden.

If they want to remain hidden, why are they unable to do so with the level of technology they would need to possess to get here they would easily have the technology to be able to do so?

If they do not care if they are seen or not, why are we not seeing them all the time and they seem to stick to remote areas and use the cover of night?

So which of those 2 is it, and what is your explanation.

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

How? Try this:

"If they are ours, show me, based on published, peer-reviewed research, the physics supporting the aerodynamic principles and/or technology that would be required to produce these objects and provide them with the capabilities they have demonstrated".

Technologies may be kept secret, but the physics which underlie them are available to all because the mathematical foundations of physics is available to all.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: spacemanjupiter

Here is my logic problem.

Either they want to remain hidden or they do not care if they remain hidden.

If they want to remain hidden, why are they unable to do so with the level of technology they would need to possess to get here they would easily have the technology to be able to do so?

If they do not care if they are seen or not, why are we not seeing them all the time and they seem to stick to remote areas and use the cover of night?

So which of those 2 is it, and what is your explanation.

Would you stop to say hello to an ants nest?

It's always the Doubting Thomas syndrome. The vast majority of people will never believe till they've seen or touched one themselves. No photo, no film, no reported sightings, no "bits of metal" will ever convince them. Hence people saying "I'll only believe it when one lands on the Whitehouse lawn".

a reply to: TritonTaranis

No, I walk right over them all the time and make no attempt to hide. So why are they not constantly being seen if we are ants and they care nothing about us?

I recall this conspiracy site that got all sorts of angry at me, at a post over Roswell. They were saying there's all this advanced technology that suddenly appeared at Area 51, there was this piece of aluminum foil with alien glyphs nobody could possibly counterfeit, and even an autopsy of a gray, that slowly emerged from the wreckage of his spaceship, only to gasp one more time, saying, "Take me to your liter." (It was a alien drunk, the prevailing theory.) Anyway, bughead was carted off by the Army and autopsied, a video proving that, which could not have been counterfeited. So, all the UFOs are U.S. products, using secret alien technology that defies gravity. (I wasn't seeing anybody that needed convincing.)

What really pissed everybody off was just one question. I asked, if they're aliens from some advanced civilization, with such stunning, silent technology, that defies propulsion physics energy requirements and gravity, how did they manage to crash into a big, damned planet?

I shouldn't have asked, though I must point out I got no substantive answers. I was relegated to being a Zionist, paid government shill. You see, the government is terrified of web forums, where God’s special little creatures, of hidden knowledge, congregate, who also know how tin foil protects their brains from being co-opted.

originally posted by: crayzeed
"I'll only believe it when one lands on the Whitehouse lawn".

Here I thought Joe already had.

I wouldn't bother trying to convince anyone. I doubt if it was our tech, it could not be kept secret this long. More likely the government doesn't have a clue what they are, and honestly we don't either

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

No offence intended here but why try to convince him?

I've been reading books about this subject for over forty years. Got hundreds of them and I'm still not sure what they are. Some reports seem fairly persuasive, others not so much.
I keep an eye on recent developments but rarely join in the debates because the pro/anti sides have entrenched themselves.

I'd still be interested in finding out what it is that people are seeing and maybe one day we'll get the answer. I'm not too worried about how others feel about it.

You show them the SR-71 and tell them that clunky old thing was designed and developed in secret over 60 years ago. Then let them do the math and imagine how advanced the most advanced craft are these days, particularly after we've had a huge growth in computing power and materials engineering over the last half century. The outline of the recent classified Congressional UFO briefing specifically talks about what we're currently working on, and it's absolutely science fiction stuff.

So advanced it looks like magic. Or "aliens."

EDIT: I used to be hung up on the question of if we have this stuff, why are we still shooting rockets into space and not winning all the wars, but I understand now that there is some technology you don't rush into battle or hauling toilet paper to the ISS because those things can still be done (very profitably) with conventional weapons and aerospace systems and the advanced stuff is both too good to show and offers even further development practically beyond imagination. We don't have to worry about losing wars because we're not using the stuff, so let's take the money and see if we can build a ship to visit Odin or YHWH or ourselves in the future.

I thought this was already in the public domain…..it was radar…..apparently……radar affected that ufo and brought it down

originally posted by: Scrutinizing
I recall this conspiracy site that got all sorts of angry at me, at a post over Roswell. They were saying there's all this advanced technology that suddenly appeared at Area 51, there was this piece of aluminum foil with alien glyphs nobody could possibly counterfeit, and even an autopsy of a gray, that slowly emerged from the wreckage of his spaceship, only to gasp one more time, saying, "Take me to your liter." (It was a alien drunk, the prevailing theory.) Anyway, bughead was carted off by the Army and autopsied, a video proving that, which could not have been counterfeited. So, all the UFOs are U.S. products, using secret alien technology that defies gravity. (I wasn't seeing anybody that needed convincing.)

What really pissed everybody off was just one question. I asked, if they're aliens from some advanced civilization, with such stunning, silent technology, that defies propulsion physics energy requirements and gravity, how did they manage to crash into a big, damned planet?

I shouldn't have asked, though I must point out I got no substantive answers. I was relegated to being a Zionist, paid government shill. You see, the government is terrified of web forums, where God’s special little creatures, of hidden knowledge, congregate, who also know how tin foil protects their brains from being co-opted.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: TritonTaranis

No, I walk right over them all the time and make no attempt to hide. So why are they not constantly being seen if we are ants and they care nothing about us?

There are many millions of sightings stretching back a very long time

So there is that i guess