My Trip To A Missile Silo

Dotgov seems to be sincere and legit but he might not understand everything exactly and perhaps his dad gave him misleading information to prevent him from telling the wrong things.

And you seem to have worked with the NEW minuteman III missiles and not the older minuteman II's used in the early 1980's...

Thing might have been different when his dad worked from when you worked...immediatly dismissing it as crap is not fair, that's harsh and destructive criticism and we don't tollerate that at all here, we all heard of rampant stories about people working at some alien bases etc, ofcourse that's more than likely crap, but making up a story about missile silo's isn't really worth it IMO.

Are you sure YOU don't want this info to come out?

I work guarding the missile silos, they are pretty neat although I have no clue what most of the stuff on site is. Alot has changed since your dad has been in though. LFs are on farmers land, they get paid a nice ammount every year to have them there. There are 50 LFs in each squadron and 5 houses called MAFs. The MAF is actually where we live for 5 days while we are on duty. Each MAF has 10 LFs right around it. The MAF acts as the hub of the LFs. Its where all the alarms get sent too, and its also where the missileers stay. The missileers are called MCC (missile combat crew). They stay underground in a little room called capsule. The response time to each LF (launch facility) has gone well over a minute now. The motion alarms you speak of are a pain, especially in the winter when it's freezing outside. An animal doesn't even have to set the alarm off, if the wind blows to hard it will set it off.
I actually leave tomorrow for my 5 days in the missilefield, so I'm off to bed. I'll check up on ATS when I get back.

From what I remember, we climbed no ladders. My brother was 4 at the time, a huge fanatic of my father, and even he remembers much of the trip. We took only the elevator. You are right, there were ladders, but we were not led up and down them.

USAF described a lot of what I saw. And yes, we were in an actual active nuclear launch facility. I remember seeing the coils. There was a picture of us 3 kids (at the time) taped by my father's bunk.

Though we were all family, we were closely watched by the crew. We were kept within a tight group. No straying about, no photographs, etc.

I will call my father tonight and ask him his squadron number at the time. I never thought it would have to come to this...

Again, this was nearly TWENTY YEARS ago. I'm pushing thirty. At the time, I wasn't inquiring about specifications of the entire facility, nor do I think I would have been given an answer. I know what I saw. I know what my brother saw. My brother laughs about this thread, because a guided and guarded tour for families leaves little for argument.

My older sister has my father's hat collection from his various squadrons. Maybe I'll scan them for final proof. Then again, maybe I'll get accused of pasting them.

What would it take to prove this? His SSN? His diplomas and certificates? An .mpeg of my interviewing him? A polygraph?

Dot.

EDIT: To USAFSF, my father always had much respect for your duties. Not only for your response times, but for your endurance and readiness. He spoke of some SP's having to guard a single jet that was already in a very secure location. He told me they had to stare at the jet and patrol it the entire shift. The night shift was the worst, he said. Now that I've moved back up here, I know the wind gusts at night during the 4-month winter are close to unbearable. So, kudos to you.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by dotgov101]

dot
You don't have to prove anything. You provided information and some here appreciate that.

If you're in it for the glory or recognition, you're barking up the wrong tree, because the only satisfaction in the business of informing people is the satisfaction of a job well done.

So, job well done.

To USAFSF, my father always had much respect for your duties. Not only for your response times, but for your endurance and readiness. He spoke of some SP's having to guard a single jet that was already in a very secure location. He told me they had to stare at the jet and patrol it the entire shift. The night shift was the worst, he said. Now that I've moved back up here, I know the wind gusts at night during the 4-month winter are close to unbearable. So, kudos to you.

Its nice to hear things like that, as my job is a thankless one. We do alot out there everyday to keep the missiles safe that most people never know about. So again thank you.

Well i don't want to change the subject but a great site to look at a few pics of silos and what the price is would be, twentiethcenturycastles.com

sorry its 20thcenturycastles.com sorry

I'm SO SORRY for the misunderstanding its www.missilebases.com...

Mod Edit: Fixed Link

[edit on 4/3/05 by FredT]

Thanks Dotgov for an interesting an informed insight into the life as a family member of the guys who held the keys. If you want further information as to some of the stresses endured by people like your dad manning the silos I can recommend "Psychological Effects of Nuclear War" - quite an old book now (cold war era) - if i can find my copy later I will post the ISBN - we used it as a text book at Uni some years ago.

Once again thanks for the post.

Originally posted by dotgov101
Thank you for believing me. I would not have written so much about a two-decade-old visit to a missile silo had it been false. This has been on my mind all day at work (it really, really bugged me), and I just wish to point out a few things.

Fabricated stories do run rampant here. The problem with discussing military installations is that there is a fine line between what one can and cannot say. I gave as many details as I could remember...even told my brother this morning about my post being flamed. He was floored, as he'd been there, also.

Speaking with the voice of experience here as I was assigned to the missile wing at Minot all I can say is you are full of it big time. the farm house bit got me big time That could not be farther from the truth then any other I have heard and many a year.


srmsc.org...

For anyone that does not care to believe just take a drive near Minot and ask a local farmer to point out where the silo's are, (hell everyone knows) then drive up to one an you will find a Small buildings at the top of each silo with armed guards no farm house as the author of this thread claims. Launch support houses yes, but no farm house. That proves it is all BS.

Edit to add photo link showing no farm house at Grand Forks



[edit on 4/3/2005 by shots]

[edit on 4/3/2005 by shots]

I'm sorry, am I supposed to recognize you from the tour?

I ask that because saying that my experience is BS is out of line. Just because you were stationed at Minot does not make you an expert on the engineering and schematics of every missile facility in the nation, nor even North Dakota, for that matter.

The farmhouse WAS THERE.
That was the entry for us during the tour.

Repeat, in case you haven't read my prior posts in the thread. If one wanted to lie and act like a moron to get a response, they would say they saw:

A retinal scan machine
A big, red self-destruct button
An implant attached to my father's nosehairs
Reptilians with cables running out of their toes as a power source
Chemtrails writing "YOU ARE HERE" in the sky
A Russian fort right next door.

But my personal favourite, would be that I saw a plethora of men thinking that just because they were in the Air Force, they were experts on everything from

Jet Propulsion to water purification
waste managment to accounting

You remind of the guys who used to tell any civilian woman they met that they were pilots. Just because you worked in a missile silo, does not mean you worked in the particular one I visited during that particular era.

If you had the credentials to even speculate that you know the schematics of every facility, you wouldn't be spouting off and touting yourself as "The Voice of Experience."

So you got yourself a photo of a single silo. based out of GFAFB. Nice job. There's dozens more, and no, you don't just walk up to any farmer up here (yes, I actually live up here) and ask "Hey man, you know where any missiles are???"

Dot.

[edit on 3-4-2005 by dotgov101]

Originally posted by Silk
Thanks Dotgov for an interesting an informed insight into the life as a family member of the guys who held the keys. If you want further information as to some of the stresses endured by people like your dad manning the silos I can recommend "Psychological Effects of Nuclear War" - quite an old book now (cold war era) - if i can find my copy later I will post the ISBN - we used it as a text book at Uni some years ago.

Once again thanks for the post.

I would love it if you could provide more information. Perhaps I might find it on Ebay or Amazon.

Thank you for the info, and for your reply.

Dot.

Excellent post Dotgov and very interesting reading as well. From my understand silos were not uniform structures and when they were built altered thier floorplan and dimentions as well so its possible that many variants of silo design were used.

Thank you for your insight, FredT.

I might be going out on a limb here (I readily admit this), but perhaps the facilities were designed differently in order to prevent further detection by the Eastern bloc. If each facility was designed with the exact specs, it would make every other facility a dead giveaway.

In addition, we're talking about an approximately 40 year-old war (if calculated by the time the term "Cold War" was first used). A missile facility designed in the 60's, 70's would look much different than a facility built even ten years later.

From Wikipedia.org :
"The US Atlas missile used four basing schemes. The first were vertical, above ground launchers at Vandenberg AFB, CA. The second was stored horizontally in a warehouse-/shedlike structure with a retractable roof at Warren AFB, WY. The third was somewhat better protected, stored horizontally in a concrete building known as "coffins", then raised to the vertical shortly before launch. These rather poorly protected systems were a side effect of the corrosive liquid fuels used, which required the missiles
to stand empty and then be fueled immediately prior to launch. The fourth version of the Atlas ICBM (the Atlas F) were stored vertically in underground silos. The Atlas was fueled in the silo and then had to be raised to the surface for launch, it could not be launched from within the silo. The Titan I missile used a similar silo basing scheme as the Atlas F.

Things changed with the introduction of the US's Titan missile and the Soviet UR-100 missile series. Both used new liquid fuels that could be stored in the missiles, thereby allowing for rapid launch. Both systems were then moved to the silo system. The introduction of solid fuel systems in the later 1960s made this even easier.

The silo has remained the primary basing system for land based missiles since that time. However the increased accuracy of inertial guidance systems has since rendered them somewhat less protected than they were in the 1960s. The US spent considerable effort in the 1970s and 80s designing a replacement, but none of the complex systems were ever produced. Both the US and USSR developed mobile ICBM's as well, but only the Soviets put them into production:

MPS (Mobile Protective Shelters) plan, in which 200 MX missiles would be shuttled around between 4600 soft shelters.
Midgetman missile
one version of the Topol-M
Today much of the US arsenal has been placed on submarines (as SLBMs), while Russia has downsized their own force to a handful of mobile and silo-based weapons.

The increase in decommissioned missile silos has led governments to sell them to individuals, who then convert them to indisputably unique abodes."

********* NOTE ***************************
I just got off the phone with my father...he said to tell USAFSF to (verbatim) "Watch out for the skunks, and don't mess with them.."?? Also repeated that you're doing more than a day's work during your shift.

He told I could quote the following:
Minuteman III-
Minuteman II- intermingled
Minuteman I
Titan
Atlas was too "mothballed" for warfare.Maybe has been modified and used for space exploration. Very few people around "these days" who worked with Atlas. (no info added)

"Little houses on the hillside, little houses all the same" -Peter Paul and Mary song that the guys would sing.(info added included changing the lyrics to "Brown brown houses, brown houses on the hillside...")

The houses DID exist, though (I STAND CORRECTED)were not used for ground-level camouflauge purposes or eye-candy. The structures were built to resemble a house. (no info added)

The men used a wind-up clock in the launch control center, everything was based on it, in case electricity, generators suffered complete shut-down. Coined "The Chelsea Clock," which was syncronized with a submarine.(no info added)

Blast door. I told him it was public knowledge. He wanted to give more information because he's slightly miffed that one of his "jobs" is being debated by (quote) "probably some guy who wished he had more ribbons on his mess dress," but he has a flight to catch.

A commercial flight.(no info added)

Dot.


[edit on 3-4-2005 by dotgov101]

Here are true facts regarding Minuteman Silos both past and present.

1. There are no farm houses as he claimed they are not different as he claimed they are all alike and contrary to what he stated that there are two people living in a farm house, that is also false. At least eight people above ground man each facility at all times. This is proven by official government sources below. (see links to pictures below) for pictures of missile sites both past and present). Each and everyone of the pictures shown are very similar to those that I worked in many years ago.

2. The elevator part is not true although if it were done on a tour it could have seemed possible, but he left out the most important part the exact procedure used from the top. His explaination of the cage procedure as you can see is clearly not true. see quote ** below for exact entry procedures used.

I assume procedures have changed by now, but it sounds reasonable that they would have password challenges to each and then both crews would enter the proper code in the key pad if they still use them. They may have even gone more high tech then that. It would seem possible they could use fingerprint or even retinal scans by now for all I know.

3.. There are only two officers assigned to each LCC there are no back ups as he stated. Hell the rooms only have room for two let alone 4 see pictures below by clicking on links. If the officers in the facility were hampered in anyway from performing their duties, headquarters would change control of their missiles to another launch facility. (see first paragraph in first quote below proving that control of missiles in its squadron or flight can in fact be changed).

**Security procedures from top to LCC

After arriving at the LCF, a missile crew had their identification examined by the flight security controller and then began the authentication procedure with the on-duty missile crew. After they cleared security, they descended down the elevator to the LCC, also known as the "no-lone zone," because one could never enter the capsule alone. After arriving at the blast door a voice would shout "clear" from inside the capsule. The oncoming crew shouted back and the eight-ton door slowly swung open. [348]
Once inside the capsule, the missile crew's shift began during a process called changeover, a formal procedure that allowed for the changing of crews in the LCC. The changeover included a ten-minute briefing on the weather report, call signs, a classified advisory on the day's war plan, and the placement of each crew member's padlock on the metal box that secured the launch keys. The changeover concluded with each departing crew member handing over three items to the deputy and commander- a three-by-five inch card encased in plastic and framed in metal with the day's top secret code to decipher commands from SAC; a key to be inserted into the console and turned in order to fire the missiles; and a .38-caliber revolver. The gun, worn in a holster, was for protection in the unlikely event of intruders. The missile combat crew was prohibited from taking off the holster while in the capsule. [349]
After the capsule door closed, a new crew would check the maintenance logs and inspect support equipment. [350] The duration of their shift was spent running practice drills or reviewing procedures to prepare for SAC's random Operational Readiness Inspections, an examination performed by an Inspector General to determine the effectiveness of the combat crews. [351] The crew had very precise procedures for every task. If they ever received a launch command, both crew members would open the locked box that contained "cookies," or the authentication codes. Once the crew members agreed that the command was authentic they would insert the keys and turn them at the same time, launching a missile. [352]
To launch a missile, an Emergency War Order (EWO) would have come over the SAC radio with a message that the crew had to authenticate. After they agreed that the message was authentic, they unlocked their padlock on the red metal box that contained two keys for launching the missiles. Each crew member would then buckle into their seats and the commander would count down. The deputy commander then flipped a row of "arming" switches for each of the missiles, making them readied for immediate launch. The commander opened the plastic cover over his launch control panel in front of him
exposing the area for the launch key, and the deputy commander removed the plastic cover over the cooperative launch switch. Each crew member would insert their key and a "conference call" is ordered where the crew speaks via phone and headset to the squadron command post for readiness reports on other Minuteman capsules. The command post then issues a command to "launch on your count." On the commander's count, both crew members would have to turn the keys at the same moment. The two ignitions are situated far enough apart that one person alone could not reach both keys and single-handedly provide the go ahead to launch a missile. The Minuteman missile cannot be launched without a corroborating signal from another LCC, providing the second vote. [353] Launch procedures were modified slightly in later years when a launch enable control group signal panel was added to the Deputy Commander's Control Console. An unlock code was required to be inserted into the "code inert thumbwheel switches" of the launch enable control panel to enable missiles for launch. [354]

www.cr.nps.gov...

Located in each LCC, missile combat crews comprised of two officers operate in 24-hour alert tours. During the tour, the crew controls the 10 missiles assigned to their flight, and has the capability to monitor and control an entire squadron of 50 missiles. Launch control centers are interconnected by hardened, buried, wire, cable communications links used by the combat crews for status reporting, coordination of missile programming and launch actions. Thus, each crew can launch any missile in its squadron, not just the missiles in its flight.

Each LCC is part of a missile alert facility. The wing’s 15 MAFs are comprised of a topside facility, which is continually manned by a minimum of eight people, and an underground complex consisting of an LCC and an underground support building.
www.minot.af.mil...

Now for comparison here is what SAC had to say about the Minuteman 1

Strategic Air Command housed each Minuteman I, whether a model "A" or "B", in an unmanned, hardened, and widely-dispersed (three-to-seven mile intervals) underground-silo launch facility. A missile combat crew of two officers stationed in a hardened, underground launch control center monitored each flight of 10 launch facilities (five flights per squadron). For purposes of command, control, and communications, hardened underground cables linked all five launch control centers of a Minuteman squadron.

www.strategic-air-command.com...

Farther down the page it gives the specs for Minuteman 3

Also, the Airborne Launch Control Center (ALCC), under restricted conditions, can launch any missile within the Minuteman Force. Each MAF is staffed 24 hours a day by a missile combat crew of two officers. Located on the same link as the one above.

And last here is the proof they are all alike.


First link is to the National Park Service not yet opened site that will allow tours of an actual site. No date has yet been set for the opening but I would assume it could be in the very near future.

www.cr.nps.gov...

Ellsworth SD

srmsc.org...

Pictures of Grand Forks ND

www.siloworld.com...
Oscar 1 Whiteman AFB

www.siloworld.com...
Golf Whiteman AFB


www.siloworld.com...
Bravo 1 Whiteman AFB


www.whiteman.af.mil...
Oscar 1 Whiteman AFB

www.siloworld.com...
Minot AFB



There you got it the facts and just the facts backed with proof not just one persons word.





[edit on 4/4/2005 by shots]

You provided a vast amount of information documenting a lengthy time frame of a secretive war fought underground and beneath water. First, I will document just a few of my current, up-to-date sources.

(Quote by USAFSF

I work guarding the missile silos, they are pretty neat although I have no clue what most of the stuff on site is. Alot has changed since your dad has been in though. LFs are on farmers land, they get paid a nice ammount every year to have them there. There are 50 LFs in each squadron and 5 houses called MAFs. The MAF is actually where we live for 5 days while we are on duty. Each MAF has 10 LFs right around it. The MAF acts as the hub of the LFs. Its where all the alarms get sent too, and its also where the missileers stay. The missileers are called MCC (missile combat crew). They stay underground in a little room called capsule. The response time to each LF (launch facility) has gone well over a minute now. The motion alarms you speak of are a pain, especially in the winter when it's freezing outside. An animal doesn't even have to set the alarm off, if the wind blows to hard it will set it off.
I actually leave tomorrow for my 5 days in the missilefield, so I'm off to bed. I'll check up on ATS when I get back.

-A quote from a dedicated SP currently at a silo in Wyoming. Right now. As we write.

Quoted by me, in reference to a conversation I had regarding your black and white views:

just got off the phone with my father...he said to tell USAFSF to (verbatim) "Watch out for the skunks, and don't mess with them.."?? Also repeated that you're doing more than a day's work during your shift.

He told I could quote the following:
Minuteman III-
Minuteman II- intermingled
Minuteman I
Titan
Atlas was too "mothballed" for warfare.Maybe has been modified and used for space exploration. Very few people around "these days" who worked with Atlas. (no info added)

"Little houses on the hillside, little houses all the same" -Peter Paul and Mary song that the guys would sing.(info added included changing the lyrics to "Brown brown houses, brown houses on the hillside...")

The houses DID exist, though (I STAND CORRECTED)were not used for ground-level camouflauge purposes or eye-candy. The structures were built to resemble a house. (no info added)

The men used a wind-up clock in the launch control center, everything was based on it, in case electricity, generators suffered complete shut-down. Coined "The Chelsea Clock," which was syncronized with a submarine.(no info added)

Blast door. I told him it was public knowledge. He wanted to give more information because he's slightly miffed that one of his "jobs" is being debated by (quote) "probably some guy who wished he had more ribbons on his mess dress,"

I think he may have touched a nerve with his final statement. I tried to delete that statement early this morning, but it was too late.

However, where are your comments regarding these FACTS? Both were stated during the past month.


MY COMMENTARY REGARDING YOUR GOOGLE:
_________________________________________________________
First of all, it would help your "Fight against Dotgov101's Family Day To A Missile Silo Twenty Years Ago" if you were to read the entire website, not just the parts that match your theory.

www.cr.nps.gov...

Your first link posted on the Park Service website is a well-writ research paper. If you look at the little numbers after the paragraphs, you will find the source documents of your FACTS.

citations 348-350 of your cut-and-paste: Life Magazine Article. "How it Feels to Hold the Nuclear Trigger." Reporter Richard Stolley and a photographer Bill Ray spent twenty-four hours in an LCC in South Dakota with a SAC escort officer and Minuteman missile crew commander Allen Lamb and deputy commander William Christians. The resulting article and photographs in the 6 November 1964 issue documents the routine activities of the crew at the Lima-01 LCC. This article may have been one of the first to give the country and the world a direct look into the LCC and the duties of a missileer."

If a reporter and cameraman were allowed to document the silo (for a mere 24 hours), how did my tour come about two decades later? Do you actually think the United States Air Force turned the underground capsules into time capsules? Do you actually believe that nothing changed?

citation #351. David F. Winnkler.

(Dotgov101 note: A credible man, Ph.D, who is currently a historian with the Naval Historical Foundation. This guy knows his noodle.)

He wrote in your citation,

"The duration of their shift was spent running practice drills or reviewing procedures to prepare for SAC's random Operational Readiness Inspections, an examination performed by an Inspector General to determine the effectiveness of the combat crews.."

Okay. A general statement that I think both you and I can agree with. Basically he wrote what the crew did during (quote)a duration of their shift.

citation #352-353, listed as " Blackhurst, interview." 1999.

One man's account. a Mr. David Blackhurst, interviewed by Steven Bucklin. Source: A Typed Transcript.

Are you going to write him, also, and tell him that he's wrong, simply because you (I am willing to bet) do not know him? Are you going to pick apart his sentence and say "That's not true because I didn't see it!"

citation #354: It is believed that the launch enable control panel was added to Delta-01 in the 1970s. "Weapons System Operation Instructions," U.S. Air Force, 10 March 1986

Moving right along, what exactly does this have to do with my initial post regarding my tour? Just wondering if you're hitting Ctrl-V a bit too much in order to look more intelligent for the reader.
___________________________________________________________
Source: www.minot.af.mil...
the paragraph you chose to quote:

Located in each LCC, missile combat crews comprised of two officers operate in 24-hour alert tours. During the tour, the crew controls the 10 missiles assigned to their flight, and has the capability to monitor and control an entire squadron of 50 missiles. Launch control centers are interconnected by hardened, buried, wire, cable communications links used by the combat crews for status reporting, coordination of missile programming and launch actions. Thus, each crew can launch any missile in its squadron, not just the missiles in its flight. Each LCC is part of a missile alert facility. The wing’s 15 MAFs are comprised of a topside facility, which is continually manned by a minimum of eight people, and an underground complex consisting of an LCC and an underground support building.

Okay, now you (Shots) are jumping to present time to describe the manpower and basic function of the 91st Space Wing, a wing my father never served for. Lots of "is's" about the current Squadron. Thank you for letting me know the current status and up-to-date information on today's missile units. This information is posted on Minot Air Force Base's "The Public Website For Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota" The main link documents that it is Current As Of 01 April 2005. It was last reviewed 13 August 2004.

Once more (need I buy a tape recorder or insert a .wav?), what does this have to do with my tour as a child? My father was stationed out of GFAFB, not Minot.

Follow the link to THEIR site... they even have a THEN VS. NOW page which may enlighten you.

GRAND FORKS AFB, NORTH DAKOTA
This site even states the following:

Despite what you might have heard from some old timers, our base is no longer a model of 1960s block design with matching furnishings. Some good long term planning, good utilization of funds, and hard work over the past decade has won us numerous awards and turned the base from an eyesore to a showplace. Below are just some of the many changes that have taken place. After looking, click on Minot's web site (and be prepared for a time warp).

Coincidence? I think not. Are you going to argue now that all funding was spent on re-modeling the civilian amenities? The "eyesores?" Each and every penny?

This is getting a bit lengthy, so I will finalize my commentary by quoting a source you listed four times, Siloworld, Brought To You By The One And Only...Siloman!:
(Dotgov101 note: all pertinent information supporting my post are in bold

Explore our Country's Earliest InterContinental Ballistic Missiles and their Basing Modes. Take a journey back in time to the beginnings of our Missile Heritage. Learn what it took to Control and Maintain one of the Deadliest Weapons known to Man. Experience everyday life as a United States Air Force Missileer.

Most of the Missile Bases you are about to visit have been Deactivated by the Military since 1965. At that Time they were considered Ultra Secret and their Mission was Top Priority. Today many Missile Sites are Privately owned and Extremely Dangerous. Please DO NOT attempt Entry. You could be ARRESTED or even SHOT.

This Web Site should be Viewed as a Pictorial History that is Forever Growing and Changing. Currently I will be adding many New Photos and Documents Weekly. Please return often for more Fascinating Information on our Early ICBM's.

If there is something you wish to Add PLEASE do not Hesitate in Contacting me with your Comments. It is through Sharing we all Benefit.

This Web Site is a Tribute and Testament to all Missileers who helped Secure our Safety and Ultimately Protect our Freedom.

***********************************************************
In closing, I wish to state that you jumped back and forth in your citations without mentioning their dates nor their complete source backgrounds. God help us should you mention that one of your mentioned citation sources was "one of the first to give the country and the world a direct look into the LCC and the duties of a missileer."

My father wasn't the first man to step foot in a missile facility, nor was he the last. Times changed, technology changed, and even the bases supporting the missile wings admit this. My father was one of the two officers you mentioned repeatedly.

I attended a squadron-organized tour of a missile facility as a child. Whoopie-chit. Not once did I brag about it, so why are you attacking me with your relentless cut-and-pastes? Two can play this game, but I see only one person trying to play: YOU. Go debunk someone who needs it.
Pun intended.

Finally, if you've read this far, I'm not a he. I'm a SHE.

Dot.

In closing, I wish to state that you jumped back and forth in your citations without mentioning their dates nor their complete source backgrounds. God help us should you mention that one of your mentioned citation sources was "one of the first to give the country and the world a direct look into the LCC and the duties of a missileer."

Well excuse me for not following an exact time line. The purpose of my post was to show the inconsistencies in your original story nothing more.

Keep in mind the moto of ATS is to deny ignorance and I have done just that with the facts from official sources.

My father wasn't the first man to step foot in a missile facility, nor was he the last. Times changed, technology changed, and even the bases supporting the missile wings admit this. My father was one of the two officers you mentioned repeatedly.

Yes that is true and I did that on purpose to show your inconsistency nothing more. You did claim there were two back ups did you not?


Now we all await your reply from official sources confirming what you said is true.



[edit on 4/4/2005 by shots]

Yes that is true and I did that on purpose to show your inconsistency nothing more. You did claim there were two back ups did you not?

I admitted in my post that I was young at the time. I believe now that the two other men could possibly have been part of the "other shift."

Now we all await your reply from official sources confirming what you said is true.

I really enjoyed your link to the NPS site, and, as you deem it as "official," I shall quote a paragraph, as I know you are waiting.

www.cr.nps.gov...

During active duty, the Minuteman missile and the life of the missileer in the LCC was not as secretive as one might have guessed. In a few cases, national reporters were allowed into the LCC to complete articles and news stories about the missileers and life in a LCC. These events were unusual in that they allowed the public and the Soviet Union to see our military defense systems. However, SAC had a history of showing off our military and technological strength. For example, a massive media campaign accompanied the activation of Project Looking Glass, as reporters received tours of the plane and some even went on test flights.

As final proof, you will see in a prior post of mine, before you posted the above link, that my father flew with The Looking Glass.

And I had wished he was on the AWACS instead.

Dot.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by dotgov101]

Originally posted by dotgov101

Yes that is true and I did that on purpose to show your inconsistency nothing more. You did claim there were two back ups did you not?

I admitted in my post that I was young at the time. I believe now that the two other men could possibly have been part of the "other shift."

Oh so now you admit you were wrong, well that is a step in the right direction. As for your house is my house, I do not think so.

Now we all await your reply from official sources confirming what you said is true.

I really enjoyed your link to the NPS site, and, as you deem it as "official," I shall quote a paragraph, as I know you are waiting.

www.cr.nps.gov...

During active duty, the Minuteman missile and the life of the missileer in the LCC was not as secretive as one might have guessed. In a few cases, national reporters were allowed into the LCC to complete articles and news stories about the missileers and life in a LCC. These events were unusual in that they allowed the public and the Soviet Union to see our military defense systems. However, SAC had a history of showing off our military and technological strength. For example, a massive media campaign accompanied the activation of Project Looking Glass, as reporters received tours of the plane and some even went on test flights.

As final proof, you will see in a prior post of mine, before you posted the above link, that my father flew with The Looking Glass.

And I had wished he was on the AWACS instead.

Dot.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by dotgov101]

I never implied it was secrective you implied that on your own when you stated that you entered the silo via a (GASP) secrect closet!!!



[edit on 4/4/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Yes that is true and I did that on purpose to show your inconsistency nothing more. You did claim there were two back ups did you not?

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I admitted in my post that I was young at the time. I believe now that the two other men could possibly have been part of the "other shift."

.

Oh so now you admit you were wrong, well that is a step in the right direction.

Pardon me, counselor. I was not admitting I was wrong. In fact, it makes perfect sense that the other two officers would have been called "back ups." Maybe a better phrase should have been used at the time, and maybe I should have paid closer attention to every phrase and every door we entered. Had I known that an anonymous person on the internet would one day be throwing apples and oranges at me, I might have stowed away and drawn detailed pictures for you and had them notarized.

I'm toying with the idea of having good ol' Dad send me a detailed email of his work in those days. Will that end this pointless debate?

As for your house is my house, I do not think so.

When I wrote that, I was referring to your NPS source. It was a metaphor. What I meant by that statement that I would use the same exact document that you provided in your argument. That your source supported my tour as well as your debate. Have you considered the Debate Forum?

I never implied it was secrective you implied that on your own when you stated that you entered the silo via a (GASP) secrect closet!!!

I had thought, and had been told at the time, that tours were few and far-between, reserved for people with appropriate clearances. I did not know until I read your links that PR became more lax as weaponry advanced to mobile ICBM's.

Regarding the "secret closet!!!" This is what I wrote in my initial post:

EXCERPT FROM MY INITIAL POST:
We were led to a locked "closet."

I used the word in quotes. I have closets larger than the space between the outer door and the space leading to the elevator.

Note: I didn't write

"We were forcelly pushed into a quaint and cozy bedroom, with a patchwork quilt enveloping the perfectly-made bed. There was a 19th century, beautifully-stained large closet door. It had an antique lock. He held a large keyring, which contained dozens of different-sized weathered keys. He pressed a super-duper-top-secret hidden button on the door hinge as he the key entered the lock. He spoke into a button on his collar (probably a CIA microphone), and quietly said, 'charlie foxtrot niner, this is delta alpha zulu...engage code four niner fiver. We have visitors.' There was a hiss as a compression something or another did something. We were blindfolded and were told to march forward three steps. Our blindfolds were removed, and we were taught the secret handshake before we entered the elevator. We were told if we didn't know the secret handshake, we would be shot at by those big machine guns you see on CNN sometimes. That even Daddy would shoot me if he had to.

The elevator had platinum doors, and all of our eyeballs were scanned by a laser beam thingy that looked like HAL or something. It really hurt, and we were all blind for a minute or two. We were blindfolded again, though we were already blind. Beethoven played through Bose speakers. They had killer subwoofers.

I felt the cold metal of a pistol to my forehead as the floor began to move. 'One move, and I'll kill you,' said Daddy's voice.

Now that's a real story. A true work of false art. I added the grammatical errors for fun. Had my intent been to bullchit everyone, I would have went on and on and on and on and on ...

"After the tour, a man smoking a cigarette and wearing an Armani suit pulled me aside from the group. He told me that I was genetically created in a laboratory, and that the Family Day was a covert way of bringing me to where I would live and train for the next three years. I was to become a double agent named 'November.' They changed my appearance. They gave me breast implants with transmitters in the saline. I learned how to kill people with my shoelaces. They brought in Navy SEALS to help increase my abs and give me buns of steel. I would later need these physical assets to seduce and kill 84 KGB guys living on a farm near Bismarck, North Dakota.

Dot.