Lets talk about cats baby, lets talk about you and me

So another rambeling thought chain in regards to covid.

Are we underestimating a serious potential vector for sustained transmissions at some point in the future- or risking the variant lotto unknowingly?


First and foremost please do not abandon your pets. Please do not kill your pets. Please, especially, do not do either solely because you read a post on ATS... That is not at all what I am about to suggest. Im simply pointing out a trend i noticed early on in relation to simultaneous transmission amd mutatuons arisint alongside that seen in h2h transmission.



We know there is a long list of animals that are capable of contracting the virus, we also know that some animals are more capable than others. We also now have several studies both peer reviewed and awaiting review showing that some animals, specifically mink , not only can contract the virus and pass it to others in their species...but it can be passed back to humans. This is decidedly rarely seen in virology for a zoonotic virus to go back to an animal after adapting to a human, then back again to the human. Can it happen in nature? Yes- theres nothing ecplicitly enigineered about the process... But just happens to be rare.

Sarscov2 is capable of at least all of this so far.

Susceptibility of ferrets, cats, dogs, and other domesticated animals to SARS–coronavirus 2

Modeling Study Flags Species Susceptible to SARS-CoV-2



Jumping ahead felines are another animal specifically mentioned since the very beginning in some form. At first there were viral stories, most shown to be untruthful or exaggerated, of people throwing their pets out windows in China. There were then alleged videos that briefly circulated on social media around March of last year purportedly showing similar actions- those too have allegedly been shown not to be entirely accurate.


What we do know is cats have been studied pretty closely by researcherd since then, and we have quite a bit of information available about their susceptibility. It seems not only can they catch it, and develop actual symptoms very similar to humams, they can pass it to other cats both within their home aswell as strays.
Study suggests substantial proportion of pet cats and dogs are infected with SARS-CoV-2 by their owners



More cats might be COVID-19 positive than first believed, study suggests


Do we know for sure they can or cant pass it back to humans? No. We do not. We know minks can, and we also know that the virus mutates im a very similar way within both minks aswell as felines. We know this also happens to mimic very similarly the mutations seem in h2h transmission aswell. Im suggesting it is logical assumption, even if still an assumption, that felines will eventually be proven to potentially transmit back to humans.
SARS-CoV-2 variants from mink evade inhibition by antibodies



Feline model of SARS-CoV-2 infection imitates COVID-19 in humans



Right now with h2h being the overwhelming vector of transmission, in the grande scheme household pets arent at the top of things im worried about- nor suggest anyone else worry about.


What bothers me is know the potential, in additiom to the amount of pets in most countries but especially urban areas of U.S.... If we had sustained transmission in felines for example, would we know if we werent looking? Covid deniers would habe a field day if we started testing mass amounts of pets... But if its happening it means those mutations are also happening.


We know the genetic drift in animals has already independently mutated several identical mutations that we see in humans, specifically in some of the newer 'variants of concern'. To me this at least implies we could have a potential vector in the future for a reemergence suddenly even after we finally have the situation seemingly contained.


The possibility of ever mutating strains becoming endemic in animal populations outside the initial host range....would mean a contious cycle reintroducing new strains repeatedly until it eventually died out. Becase more adapted to felines or whatever host, the odds are better in our favor of it eventually not being capable of jumping back at all...but its the knowm presence of seemingly identical 'random' mutations at certain spots of the genome happening in both the animal-animal and h2h that makes me a bit uneasy.

The following sentiment is a common one throughout almost every study thusfar.

Two K-State studies focus on SARS-CoV-2 transmission in domestic cats, pigs

"This efficient transmission between domestic cats indicates a significant animal and public health need to investigate a potential human-cat-human transmission chain," said Richt, who is also the director of the university's Center of Excellence for Emerging and Zoonotic Animal Diseases, known as CEEZAD, and the Center on Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases, known as CEZID.

It seems the science is technically still out... But what we do know suggests there may be a potential issue down the road worthy of investigating, because the potential of possibility seems to be there.

Accordimg to this site

According to a national pet owners survey, there was a total of approximately 95.6 million cats living in households in the United States in 2017. In the same year, some 68 percent of all U.S. households owned at least one pet.

Again not urging or suggesting, nor do i condone personally lol, harming or abandoning of any animals. It does seem though theres enough data to suggest wr all should likely be more aware and cognizant of the spill-over potential there maybe.

Just something I hadnt seen talked about much here, thought I would see what others think

a reply to: itswhatev

As long as you don't go eating the cat,you'll be fine.Or was that a bat?

a reply to: itswhatev

One of your link titles mentioned pigs also. I'm reminded of the news about meat packing plants having issues with employees coming down with covid. Hmmm.

a reply to: new_here
Yes pigs have neen studied, and luckily for us it seems as far as animals 'close' to us both pigs aswell as many birds wildlife & stockyard are towards the bottom of the list as far ad susceptibility. I too remember the meat packing incidents, and was admittedly a lot mode hesitant in our ability to know the transmission vector 100% . we still dont know 100% ans likely never will about this virus, but they have focused on our most traditional livestock in several studies- while they never say the risk is zero comparitively to other animalsnits very unlikely based on all the findings.


The list itself of both animald as well as insects, is uncomfortably long though and continues to grow. I actually just read earlier about house flys being confirmed contaminating/transmitting live virus at least 24hours after becoming infected or coming into physical contact with the virus on a surface. On one hand thats good imo- because it means we are actually looking/watching/learning but i do worey when we do finally have a control of h2h transmission it could pop up to be a source of later infection down the line. Be it cats...or some other animal we come into contact with often in modern times.

I have three cats (and a dog). Two of the cats were twin kittens who showed up on my doorstep a couple of years ago and loudly explained that this was now their home and I was to provide them with food and anything else they required (entertainment, catnip, ear scritches).

They are in charge. I am in their thrall.

a reply to: glen200376

It would be great if the science backed that up, but thats kind of the point. It doesnt say youre wrong specifically, but it does lend credence to the possibility of cat to human infection via indirect contact. Again that, along with all of the links in the post, is what was being referenced. Though im sure you caught that-

Not to mention... Eating bats..or cats...or babies....has, and never was, part of the equation...

a reply to: Phage

My ex partner and I once had to move in with a friend for a few months.... I was grateful for not being in the street. Genuinely...grateful. However, i was unaware beforehand that this very generous friend ....also had 37 cats. That is not a typo. Thirty Seven...indoor...cats...


Never. Again.


Haha im a huge animal lover, my 14yo pup is my baby... But i never was a hugr cat lover, and after those few months i think it will be a long time before I decide to test the waters on that feeling.




Out of curiosity, before (or after) reading this, if you had come down with covid would you have considered isolating yourself from your pets the way suggested from family or friends?

a reply to: itswhatev

Highly hypothetical, but probably not. Probably would not have entered my head.

But you, you had to bring it up.

a reply to: itswhatev

Me, the wife, my dog and the 2 cats will be fine.

Even if I die, fine.

a reply to: MykeNukem

Well lets err on the side of enjoying being fine with your wife and cats, because youre still alive lol

to that. But I also definitely understand what youre saying and for the most part feel the same way honestly.


Genuine question (s) for you as a cat owner. hypothetically if tomorrow the CDC released a firm statement suggesting isolating yourself from your pets if you believe you were sick - would you think it was ridiculous regardless of what reason was given?

Do you think it would make a difference who suggested it, as in whatever your personal favorite media source Vs a government agency?

Assuming you find it ridiculous, not that youve stated that. Just innately curious as to how people respond in general especially when it comes to the virus. So not trying to be sarcastic lol

originally posted by: itswhatev
a reply to: MykeNukem

Well lets err on the side of enjoying being fine with your wife and cats, because youre still alive lol

to that. But I also definitely understand what youre saying and for the most part feel the same way honestly.


Genuine question (s) for you as a cat owner. hypothetically if tomorrow the CDC released a firm statement suggesting isolating yourself from your pets if you believe you were sick - would you think it was ridiculous regardless of what reason was given?

Do you think it would make a difference who suggested it, as in whatever your personal favorite media source Vs a government agency?

Nope.

I never judge something because of who said it. I would look at the data, and make an informed decision.

Like Kid Rock say's "I can smell sh!t from a mile away".

a reply to: MykeNukem
Thats fair enough, thanks I appreciate the honesty.

I know im not supposed to but..second line. Lol

a reply to: itswhatev

I find some hypothetical questions to be leading and don't respond to such.

a reply to: itswhatev



Love your avatar and Sheldon 🥰


I have slept on the couch once for fear of getting my babygirl sick. Last year, out of the blue, she started walking funny, looked like she was having some neurological issue, wouldn’t eat or drink.

I was a wreck, I couldn’t even go to work. I spoon fed her water all day, and didn’t leave her side. I was just about to bring her to the vet, and she came walking out of my bedroom looking fine. It was the weirdest thing.

I would sleep on the couch if I thought I had Covid. I love my little girl, she’s been with my son and I for 16 years. I could never leave her.

a reply to: Phage

Yeah, im bad at that sometimes .... Though not on purpose at all.


I also obsess over hypotheticals quite often, especially lately, which even if objective/not leading... gets redundant. But my anxeity often runs wild with 'what ifs' so thats like 2nd nature.

a reply to: itswhatev

Do you ever think that if your aunt had balls she would have been your uncle?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: itswhatev

Do you ever think that if your aunt had balls she would have been your uncle?

Oh, she would have traded her assortment of balls for a sex change operation.

I get it.

a reply to: KTemplar
Aww, yeah some pets almost feel likena disservice to call them anything less than family. Thats how I am with my own dog whos older now, so i definitely get it. I dont know that I wouldve thought about not letting her sleep in my room of I was sick prior to reading a few articles about it. Not that I would avoid it if suggested , just dont know that I wouldve thought about it or seen it as an issue. Shes like the best therapy dog ever especially when you dont feel good lol so i guess that is kind of in a way the thought that spurred this post.

a reply to: Phage

Ah yes..poor old Uncle Janis...

Point noted, though.

originally posted by: itswhatev
a reply to: Phage

Yeah, im bad at that sometimes .... Though not on purpose at all.


I also obsess over hypotheticals quite often, especially lately, which even if objective/not leading... gets redundant. But my anxeity often runs wild with 'what ifs' so thats like 2nd nature.

What with the anxiety, my friend. If that's not just a figure of speech