Agnostic Atheism: the only logical position.

originally posted by: Annee

No writings of Jesus during his lifetime.

Having no recorded writings from Jesus is probably one of his most important teachings.
The pen cannot do justice at describing the entirety of the Truth. It must be put into action to see the effect

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Klassified
Agnostics claim that to know whether there is or isn't a god is unknown or unknowable. Therefore, their default stance is a lack of belief in either, because they neither believe nor disbelieve, making them as atheist as I or any other atheist. The only difference between the atheist and the agnostic is a willingness to say so.

Agnostics belief is simply that the existence or nature of God is unknowable. Atheists believe God does not exist.

Very difference. Let's not mix them up.

Your definition of agnostic is correct enough, but your definition of atheism is still incorrect. Atheists do not believe god does not exist. They simply don't believe god exists. There is a difference. One is an affirmation, the other is a lack of belief in something that cannot be proven to exist.
Lets not mix them up.

Oxford Dictionary: Belief
Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.


Is there conclusive evidence that god does NOT exist?

What's your point? That atheists have a belief that god does not exist? There is no belief involved, just a lack of belief.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Klassified
Agnostics claim that to know whether there is or isn't a god is unknown or unknowable. Therefore, their default stance is a lack of belief in either, because they neither believe nor disbelieve, making them as atheist as I or any other atheist. The only difference between the atheist and the agnostic is a willingness to say so.

Agnostics belief is simply that the existence or nature of God is unknowable. Atheists believe God does not exist.

Very difference. Let's not mix them up.

Your definition of agnostic is correct enough, but your definition of atheism is still incorrect. Atheists do not believe god does not exist. They simply don't believe god exists. There is a difference. One is an affirmation, the other is a lack of belief in something that cannot be proven to exist.
Lets not mix them up.

Oxford Dictionary: Belief
Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.


Is there conclusive evidence that god does NOT exist?

What's your point? That atheists have a belief that god does not exist? There is no belief involved, just a lack of belief.

You have two propositions:

God exists = Theist
God does not exist = Atheist

The Theist takes the proposition that god exists, the atheist takes the proposition that god does not exist. The agnostic takes neither.

Oxford Dictionary definition of Belief:
Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Klassified
Agnostics claim that to know whether there is or isn't a god is unknown or unknowable. Therefore, their default stance is a lack of belief in either, because they neither believe nor disbelieve, making them as atheist as I or any other atheist. The only difference between the atheist and the agnostic is a willingness to say so.

Agnostics belief is simply that the existence or nature of God is unknowable. Atheists believe God does not exist.

Very difference. Let's not mix them up.

Your definition of agnostic is correct enough, but your definition of atheism is still incorrect. Atheists do not believe god does not exist. They simply don't believe god exists. There is a difference. One is an affirmation, the other is a lack of belief in something that cannot be proven to exist.
Lets not mix them up.

Oxford Dictionary: Belief
Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.


Is there conclusive evidence that god does NOT exist?

What's your point? That atheists have a belief that god does not exist? There is no belief involved, just a lack of belief.

You have two propositions:

God exists = Theist
God does not exist = Atheist

The Theist takes the proposition that god exists, the atheist takes the proposition that god does not exist. The agnostic takes neither.

Oxford Dictionary definition of Belief:
Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.

Not exactly.

Atheism is lack of belief — not “I don’t believe in God”.

In other words, atheism is open to: Proof of God.

The original description of agnostic: The English biologist Thomas Henry Huxley coined the word agnostic in 1869, and said "It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."

As far as dictionaries go: some still claim atheism is Devil worship. They’re a little slow in getting this right.

a reply to: Debunkology

You have two propositions:
God exists = Theist
God does not exist = Atheist

Your proposition is wrong.
The atheist does not say "God does not exist". The atheist simply lacks any belief in a God that cannot be proven to exist or not exist. Your complicating something that is very simple.

The Theist takes the proposition that god exists, the atheist takes the proposition that god does not exist. The agnostic takes neither.

Again, the atheist does not say "God does not exist". As to the agnostic; Find me one agnostic that says they believe in God. You can't. The best answer you will get is "I can't say, because I don't know." which means they also lack a belief in God because they cannot say they are a believer.

Oxford Dictionary definition of Belief: Any proposition (1) that is accepted as true on the basis of inconclusive evidence.

What is so hard to understand? Can you really not distinguish between belief and a lack thereof? No atheist will tell you "God does not exist". That would not only be a statement of belief, it would also be a statement of faith.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Debunkology

You have two propositions:
God exists = Theist
God does not exist = Atheist

No atheist will tell you "God does not exist". That would not only be a statement of belief, it would also be a statement of faith.

Well, some will say "God does not exist".

BUT, that’s getting into individual philosophy.

Atheism/atheist means one thing only — “Lack of belief in a god” — it does not mean god does not exist.

Beyond that is each individuals personal philosophy.

There is no group think.

a reply to: Annee
Agreed, but I guess the concept is beyond the grasp of some.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Annee
Agreed, but I guess the concept is beyond the grasp of some.

Oh, I know.

I’ve been on here since 2007 — and repeated this over and over.

Atheists are still humans with thoughts, ideas, concepts, etc.

But, they know the difference. They know what lack of belief is — and proof.

a reply to: ooder57

Secular science claims there is no proof of God as it observes
his creation. Secular scientists think by explaining the mechanics
of creation they can then deny the engineer. Atheists don't
understand that this was the whole purpose from the very
beginning of science. Agnostics are just as silly if they deny
the evidence is every where. I think it's hilarious and arrogant
to try and make man the most intelligent being in existence.

Most atheists know very little about the world they live in. Most
don't believe in Sasquatch either. I can't help but laugh at the well
educated ignorance. Poor bastards.

originally posted by: Randyvine
a reply to: ooder57

Secular science claims there is no proof of God as it observes
his creation. Secular scientists think by explaining the mechanics
of creation they can then deny the engineer. Atheists don't
understand that this was the whole purpose from the very
beginning of science. Agnostics are just as silly if they deny
the evidence is every where. I think it's hilarious and arrogant
to try and make man the most intelligent being in existence.

Most atheists know very little about the world they live in. Most
don't believe in Sasquatch either. I can't help but laugh at the well
educated ignorance. Poor bastards.

Yeah the earth and the biological organisms are clearly designed. It rains water on plants to keep them growing with a sun that has maintained its goldi-locks zone distance since the dawn of history giving life to photosynthetic life. These plants intake the carbon dioxide we breathe out, and we intake the oxygen that they 'breathe' out. We eat plants, and plants eat the by-product that we poop out.

It's just because we were crammed evolution into our brains from a young age that so many have been fooled into thinking there was no intelligence involved. Imagine that... possessing intelligence but not believing that an Intelligent source is responsible for us intelligent beings coming into existence.

a reply to: Annee
Can you prove you exist, in any meaning full way ?
How much of life and reality is not subjected to measurement, and as such beyond science.
I would imagine a very large percentage of even the most mundane.
All the prefixes to the the word Theist, are presumptions of contextual meaning, even the root word is.
How can you prove, things like Intention, Love, or the eb an flow of your thoughts and feelings.
Can you just break it up into small pieces, and then understand it ?
No one can know the properties of God, they can only experience the emanations.
I find this both, scientifically and philosophically satisfying.
And as the universe could be a figment of my own imagination.
I will choose to believe it is intentional, as is the predisposition of living creatures.
To direct the will, and overcome death on a cosmic level.

a reply to: cooperton

People that are out in the wilds hunting fishing or grow
up on farms, learn survival skills spend time close to
nature. You find very rarely an atheist among them. And
when you do, if you dig a little you find out they really just
have a beef with God. Blaming him for some tragedy that
they have no one else to blame it on. So thru their bitterness
they actually do believe or they wouldn't be holding a grudge.

Teach these deniers enough survival skills to make it thru a
couple nights in the mountains of British Columbia.

ALONE! lol

I guarantee when they come out. They won't be the same person
that went in. Because that's how you find out you don't know sh3t
about anything.

originally posted by: rom12345
a reply to: Annee
Can you prove you exist, in any meaning full way ?

As I believe everything is energy, that consciousness is thought energy, and thought manifests — I’m not sure what your concept of exits is.

Basically, I’m one who leans toward a virtual reality.

originally posted by: Annee

Basically, I’m one who leans toward a virtual reality.

virtual reality requires a creator.

a reply to: Randyvine

People that are out in the wilds hunting fishing or grow up on farms, learn survival skills spend time close to nature. You find very rarely an atheist among them.

I know several atheists who grew up hunting, fishing, and learning survival skills. I can survive a lot longer than a few days, can you?

And when you do, if you dig a little you find out they really just have a beef with God. Blaming him for some tragedy that they have no one else to blame it on. So thru their bitterness they actually do believe or they wouldn't be holding a grudge.

No atheist I personally know has any "beef with God". It doesn't really make sense to have a "beef" with an entity a person has no belief in. No grudge at all. That would be silly.

Teach these deniers enough survival skills to make it thru a couple nights in the mountains of British Columbia.

ALONE! lol

I guarantee when they come out. They won't be the same person that went in. Because that's how you find out you don't know sh3t about anything.

I haven't been to the mountains of BC, but it sounds like fun, even if I am getting a little old to be roughing it these days, but I have been out in the wild many times. I can feed and shelter myself if and when necessary.

Your scenario makes no more sense than "there are no atheists in foxholes". There have been many atheists in foxholes and even more who can live off the land if need be.

I'm guessing you folks in Canada have the same religious freedoms we do in the states, so enjoy those freedoms with your family and don't fret about us heathen atheists. If you're right and we are wrong, God will see to us in his time without your assistance, right?

a reply to: ooder57

At some point in my life, I intend to join the Church of the Athiest.

Would love to hear the sermons.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ooder57

At some point in my life, I intend to join the Church of the Athiest.

Would love to hear the sermons.

OMG DB! You would be bored out of your skull. Though you might get a few chuckles out of us heathens.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ooder57

At some point in my life, I intend to join the Church of the Athiest.

Would love to hear the sermons.

OMG DB! You would be bored out of your skull. Though you might get a few chuckles out of us heathens.

I've always been of this mind that faith is a personal choice that I'd never infringe upon.

Now I might offend the hell out of many, but I'd never infringe.

a reply to: Klassified

I haven't been to the mountains of BC, but it sounds like fun, even if I am getting a little old to be roughing it these days, but I have been out in the wild many times. I can feed and shelter myself if and when necessary.

I never said there are no atheists that go in the wild. I'm not in Canada.
How many of the atheists YOU KNIOW believe Sasquatch exists? I don't
think atheists are heathens and find it offensive that you imply that. Yes
I could survive a week in the woods any where. With full knowledge that
I might not. So you were all over my response but you seem to have
avoided my whole obvious point. You didn't say anything about whether
or not you believe there is a giant bipedal very elusive hairy naked man
roaming the forests and mountains all over the world? Oh and if you
don't, that doesn't make you a heathen either. I stand by everything I said.
Especially the part about British Columbia a few nights alone deep
in the woods. It's all Sasquatch territory so doesn't matter where. Even
Vancouver island. I know damn well if you come out? You won't be
the same person. And what I'm saying will surely make sense to
you then.

And BTW although i could survive a night alone in the mountains
up there in Canada ALONE. I wouldn't. especially not to prove
anything to anybody. The whole point is this. You and I are being
lied to. Everybody in every society on this planet is being lied to.
That's where I make my parallel in regards to the Creator and
Bigfoot.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Annee

Basically, I’m one who leans toward a virtual reality.

virtual reality requires a creator.

Not necessarily. You’re thinking only what you know currently.

Energy, thought consciousness — evolving simultaneously. Kind of an energy consciousness metamorphosis.

I’d say layers upon layers & multiple universes.

Basically, everyone is their own creator.