Cocaine Mummies

a reply to: Lysergic

Figure a way to mix aliens and adrenachrome in there and we've got a real conspiracy. Needs a bitchute video though.

I remember hearing this explained away, as a possibility. They say these mummies have been around/unburied for a long time, a great many were bought/sold in Victorian times as curiosities. I guess it was a "trend"..ancient Egypt, artifacts, mummies. They say, a lot of coc aine use back then, it was medicine, or accepted as an ok thing. Anyway, it was suggested that the mummies testing positive were contaminated by that. I dunno

Archaeology sure doesn't like being shown to be wrong, I think it's possible man was doing a lot more travelling than is accepted.

The coc aine mummies are interesting, but what I've always been curious about is how south American shamans got ahold of egyptian blue lotuses before western contact.

doctorlib.info...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: vonclod

There are lots of theories to explain it. Could be a mixture of a few of them. I like that Ramses had nicotine that was 35x that of an average cigarette smoker.

originally posted by: Madrusa
a reply to: FauxMulder

Your first two links don't work, but nicotine can be present in the body from other edible plants, with coc aine again a Tropane alkaloid found in the plant family Solanaceae like nicotine, so unless actual evidence of plants is found, and it won't be, tracing such substances is entirely pointless.

Your right tobacco like plants are found on every continent such as Withania Somnifer and Apium Somnifera so finding nicotine proves very little.

However having said that there is evidence that trade occured long before we thought In india a godess
can be seen holding an ear of corn.

www.asc.ohio-state.edu...

a reply to: dragonridr

Yea, the diet thing is a possibility but it raises other questions. As shown in OP, bolding mine:

Plants such as potatoes or tomatoes contain small amounts of nicotine and where they form a significant part of a person’s diet it is possible to build up a large enough residue in hair and tissue samples to show up in tests. Such an explanation however raises as many questions as it resolves as both plants originate in the New World.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: vonclod

There are lots of theories to explain it. Could be a mixture of a few of them. I like that Ramses had nicotine that was 35x that of an average cigarette smoker.

No wonder he's dead!

It's a very interesting subject..thanks for the thread!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: FauxMulder

There's also allegedly Roman amphorae off the coast of Brazil so there is further speculation that contact was made prior to the pre-Columbian period.

Actually, there's not.

The real story is this: In 1960, a wealthy entrepreneur living in Rio de Janeiro liked the style of some genuine amphorae he saw in Sicily so he commissioned a potter in Portugal to make him some exact replicas. But they lacked the one thing their Sicilian counterparts had. That look of age and antiquity. So Americo Santarelli, the new owner of 16 otherwise authentic-looking Roman amphorae, dropped them in Guanabara Bay in 1961 where he left them to become encrusted with barnacles, corals, and mollusks. Unfortunately for him, he could only locate 4 of the 16 original amphorae, leaving 12 scattered about the bay, where two were found by lobster divers in 1974.

ahotcupofjoe.net...

Harte

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Byrd

Yea, those same doubts were mentioned in the OP.

The results are from contaminated samples.

The remains are modern fakes, supplied by unscrupulous traders to meet the ever increasing demand of European museums.

There is no reference to either coc aine or tobacco anywhere in Egyptian records, it’s use is not depicted in any of the thousands of carvings and wall paintings.

The findings are controversial because while other researchers have also detected the presence of coc aine and nicotine in Egyptian mummies, two successive analyses on other groups of Egyptian mummies and human remains failed to fully reproduce Balabanova's results, and some showing positive results only for nicotine

What do you think of her assertion that there could have been varieties of tobacco and coca plants native to Africa which have since become extinct?

It's an old report, and she isn't a botanist. There are literally dozens of plants in Africa that could account for all these results, and probably lots of other plants that are unknown, along with (possibly) extinct ones.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Because things like tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes are native to the America's.

a reply to: Harte

Well, there you go.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Because things like tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes are native to the America's.

Well i know poppys have been around along time even the sumarians knew about them. The Sumerians referred to it as Hul Gil, the "joy plant." The Sumerians soon passed it on to the Assyrians, who in turn passed it on to the Egyptians. So opiates were used.

originally posted by: dug88
The coc aine mummies are interesting, but what I've always been curious about is how south American shamans got ahold of egyptian blue lotuses before western contact.

doctorlib.info...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Wikipedia article says that the Egyptian blue lotus wasn't found in South America and that a tree (not flower) they thought was related is probably not related.

The two plants mentioned in the first article (Egyptian and South American) are related because they're from the lotus family (along with hundreds of others) but are not the same plant.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Because things like tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes are native to the America's.

Solinaceae (the plant family that includes tomatoes) is a member of the nightshade family (belladonna) and I assure you that it's allll over Europe and the Middle East. Quite popular in medicine and poisoning long before the time of the Borgias.

a reply to: Byrd

So you think the source of the nicotine is from these people ingesting large amounts of poison and medicine?

From what they said you would have to have a significant diet of nightshade plants (like potatoes) for it to register on the test. Ramsey had 35 times the amount of nicotine than a heavy smoker.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its From pre-Columbian trade, just that this explanation doesn't make sense.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Byrd

So you think the source of the nicotine is from these people ingesting large amounts of poison and medicine?

From what they said you would have to have a significant diet of nightshade plants (like potatoes) for it to register on the test. Ramsey had 35 times the amount of nicotine than a heavy smoker.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its From pre-Columbian trade, just that this explanation doesn't make sense.

The mummy of Ramesses II was not freshly unwrapped when that report was made. In fact, it had been moved around and investigated throughout the 1800's... at least five different times.

From Wikipedia (other sources available; this is just the handiest)

Following the renewed discussion of tobacco sparked by Balabanova's research and its mention in a 2000 publication by Rosalie David, a study in the journal Antiquity suggested that reports of both tobacco and coc aine in mummies "ignored their post-excavation histories" and pointed out that the mummy of Ramesses II had been moved five times between 1883 and 1975.

So if you gathered all the material from that forensically contaminated mummy, I would bet you heavily that C14 data shows the tobacco and beetle, etc, are less than 400 years old. And that might also be true of the coc aine.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Because things like tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes are native to the America's.

Acacia nilotica contains nicotine, is indigenous to Africa, and was actually listed as a treatment for several different maladies in the Ebers papyrus.

There is also a native tobacco plant in Africa - nicotiana africana.

Cocaine in the Americas comes from two varieties of erythroxylum - coca and novogranatense (likely others as well.) There are over a hundred different species of erythroxylum native to Africa, and a large number of them haven't really been studied.


Harte

a reply to: Harte

A question to remember.... is a Phonecian trading vessel any less seaworthy than a Viking knar? Probably not. So there is a high probability that during the Minoan warm period the secretive trade routes of the Phonecians were exploiting anywhere with a profit. A shipload of goodies would set you up for life, you have Phonecian ports right where the Trade winds blow, Great lakes copper for one. Archeology in the Azores halfway across, Plato stating that another continent enclosed the Atlantic. There are a lot of clues.

originally posted by: Harte
...

There is also a native tobacco plant in Africa - nicotiana africana.

Cocaine in the Americas comes from two varieties of erythroxylum - coca and novogranatense (likely others as well.) There are over a hundred different species of erythroxylum native to Africa, and a large number of them haven't really been studied.

More detail on species of Erythroxylon here.

a reply to: Harte

Thanks. Found this while looking up those plants.

The answer is probably Nicotiana africana, a plant native to the African continent (Merxmüller and Buttler 1975) and concentrations can reach up to 2%. Today, this plant is found in the mountains of northern Namibia. In his 2017 book, Ancient Ocean Crossings: Reconsidering the Case for Contacts with the Pre-Columbian Americas, Stephen Jett suggests that N. africana “contains almost no nicotine” and is too far away. But recent research by Marlin et al (2014) shows that the African variety of tobacco has varied levels of nicotine within the plant itself. Most notably, within the leaves. They found that while nornicotine and anabasine were the primary alkaloids in the leaves of N. africana (83% and 15% respectively), nicotine was present at 2%.

The nicotine level of Nicotiana africana is on par with N. tobacum, so the tobacco question is easily answered. Not as easy to understand is the coc aine present in the organs of these mummies, but since the genus Erythroxylum is common to, and probably originated in, Africa, there are plenty of places to look within easy reach of the Egyptian Empire. In spite of Görlitz’s conclusion, there’s no good reason to think one of the many tropane alkaloids present in these species couldn’t have been coc aine either in the past or in an as yet undiscovered species.

Even if we didn’t know about other nicotine and possibly coc aine producing plants readily available on the African continent, the first assumption should still be that there must have once been, or is now, as yet undiscovered species of plants that produce these chemicals. And this is what’s truly cool about the research that Balabanova and Pasche (along with others) did: not only did they show us a way the Egyptians made medicinal use of plant resources, probably in attempt to heal or offset pain, but they point us toward the probability that at least one of these may now be extinct or at least so rare it’s no longer known.

link