Cocaine Mummies

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

But you can see that here in these 12th-15th century Amphorae, there was design continuity because it's a good one.

a reply to: Madrusa

Those are not even close to the ones Robert Marx was holding.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What about this 16th-17th century example here, it's good to consider the possibility they are colonial period right?

a reply to: Madrusa

That's a picture of Robert Marx with the amphorae he found and your link is not the same thing.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That's very interesting. The oceans hold so many mysteries. I found this part particularly interesting from your link.

In 1983, the Brazilian government, which had been cooperative up to that point, suddenly and without any real explanation denied Marx’s request for permission to further explore the area. In fact, they even went as far as to ban him from entering the country at all, citing the allegations that he had stolen numerous historical objects from shipwrecks all over the country, and with Guanabara Bay this would extend into a full ban on any underwater exploration by anyone whatsoever. The frustrated Marx then accused the Brazilian government of a cover-up, saying that they were trying to wipe out anything that would clash with the established known history of the country, and this was why no effort had ever been made to investigate the fishermen’s claims in the past. He even went as far as to accuse the Brazilian Navy of burying the jars and possible shipwreck in silt in order to keep them hidden, which they denied.

I've read Marx's book, and think both sides are correct about each other. Brazil seems to want to exercise control, and Marx, for his part, strikes me as a sea-borne Indy Jones.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes i know they're not the exact same, but i'm considering if it would have been possible to find such crude examples of storage jars as in the picture in the holds of the early Spanish colonists and i'm far from convinced it wouldn't be, how about one late style Spanish olive jar?



Still think Romans?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Is it worth the read? Thinking about checking it out.

Thanks for this thread, the subject has been of interest to me for so long.

I don't believe peoples were land locked, some sure, others? Perhaps an early age seafaring Nation explored the world and brought items of trade all over.

Maybe some long forgotten great Seafaring Nation whose remains lay buried off the coast of some wayward and dismissed area.

originally posted by: Madrusa
Yes i know they're not the exact same...

I understand where you're coming from but what Marx allegedly found are pretty much prototypical Roman amphorae from the 2nd/3rd century.

originally posted by: crayzeed
The most stark evidence of Egyptian, South American contact are the reed boats used on Lake Titicaca. They both "might" have come up with using reeds for the building material but to come up with the exact style of build is something else. Now the question would be did it go East West or West East?

Reed boats were/are used by the Easter Islanders, as well, if memory serves, on some of the big lakes in east Africa.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Is it worth the read? Thinking about checking it out.

Probably, if you don't mind Marx tooting his own horn as much as he does...

a reply to: Arnie123

This is one of my favorite videos about ancient civilizations, check it out if you have some time. Someone recommended it to me on ATS a while ago and it's definitely worth the watch.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: FauxMulder

There's also allegedly Roman amphorae off the coast of Brazil so there is further speculation that contact was made prior to the pre-Columbian period.

Just to fill out that very interesting incident here is an earlier thread on ATS about that very find.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: FauxMulder
In 1992 a German toxicologist was performing test on a 2500 year old mummy named Henut Taui. She was a priestess in the temple of Amun at Thebes and was buried in the Deir el-Bahari necropolis.
....
If the results are genuine, it could be possible that they had trade with the Americas through a third party. Dr. Balabanova believes that the most likely explanation is there were varieties of tobacco and coca plants native to Africa which have since become extinct.

We've discussed this many times and no, it's not an indication of trade between the Americas and Egypt.

The mummies were tested again and the results could not be duplicated for coc aine. As for nicotine, it comes from many sources (not just tobacco), some of which were in common use around the Middle East at that time.

The article in your first link (Wikipedia) actually has these details

Long and difficult journeys were recorded publicly because they added to the pharaoh's status... so there's several mentions of Punt beyond the description in Hatshepsut's temples. The expedition leaders (who would have been nobles) would also have recorded this in their tombs, and it would be confirmed by the pharaohs when they listed their accomplishments (they weren't modest about this).

Goods brought back from the new world would also have been recorded in the Great Temples because some of them would have ended up as offerings (we see this in a number of places.)

Regular trade and trade routes were also recorded. If some civilization had been in contact with the Americas, there'd be boatloads (literally) of evidence... European/African trade goods all over the Americas along with plants and animals... and vice-versa.

originally posted by: crayzeed
The most stark evidence of Egyptian, South American contact are the reed boats used on Lake Titicaca. They both "might" have come up with using reeds for the building material but to come up with the exact style of build is something else. Now the question would be did it go East West or West East?

That's coincidental -- the same way that canoes all around the world generally look the same (because that's the best way to get a floating log to move through the water.)

The front and rear of the reed boats take on water and the whole thing sinks and doesn't steer well unless you lift them above the water. That means a center pole and tying them up in some fashion.

The Lake Titicaca boats are mainly fishing platforms. The Egyptian boats were cargo haulers as well as fancy floating hotels and elaborate transport for temple items, including statues of the gods. They had a fairly elaborate design and were enhanced with wooden structures.

a reply to: Byrd

Yea, those same doubts were mentioned in the OP.

The results are from contaminated samples.

The remains are modern fakes, supplied by unscrupulous traders to meet the ever increasing demand of European museums.

There is no reference to either coc aine or tobacco anywhere in Egyptian records, it’s use is not depicted in any of the thousands of carvings and wall paintings.

The findings are controversial because while other researchers have also detected the presence of coc aine and nicotine in Egyptian mummies, two successive analyses on other groups of Egyptian mummies and human remains failed to fully reproduce Balabanova's results, and some showing positive results only for nicotine

What do you think of her assertion that there could have been varieties of tobacco and coca plants native to Africa which have since become extinct?

a reply to: FauxMulder

consuming tobacco and coc aine does not need to be portrayed with joe camel holding a tooter. Any of the thousands of images of people burning something could be these items. But that is a good point nonetheless.

So the elites have always been cokeheads?

Makes sense now.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ha! Joe Camel Pharoah pictures in my head now.

Maybe it all adds credence to the reports of Herodotus, -that I’ve always had doubts about- , that the Great Pyramid was built in 25 years ( one block every two minutes for 24hrs for 25 years etc etc etc).

Perhaps if they were loaded up with Colombian marching powder, it wouldn’t have been quite so impossible ...
The labourers and Foremen would have felt invincible, capable of lifting anything , thinking in gigantic visionary terms and scale , and would have perpetuated the glory of their deeds by staying up all night telling each other how great they all were .
I wonder........