Could mRNA Vaccines Permanently Alter DNA? Recent Science Suggests They Might.

a reply to: cooperton
The paper was published on Dec. 13, 2020. The first vax administered, IIRC, was around Dec. 8, 2020.

Everything they are talking about in that paper is based solely on the virus.

ETA: The full text of that paper can be found here and no mention of vaccines is made:
www.biorxiv.org...

a reply to: daskakik

So is this more likely in those with developing or active cancers, maybe HIV infection to have Line-1 or HIV RT so active it incorporates viral RNA? It’s interesting, probably more detrimental to those patients and more beneficial for longer lasting immunity in healthy populations.

PCR can be a coin toss at times and it is better used as a tool than a concrete method.

It’s a cool paper, thanks for posting.

a reply to: daskakik

The virus itself being a retrovirus, if not lab grown to begin with, doesnt bother me in the least. Its lethality just doesnt scare me like HIV.

a reply to: cooperton

No vaccines are synthetic RNA strands without a nuclear localization signal. To get through the nucleus, you need a signal, it’s like a key or you’re not getting into the nucleus. Viruses get creative with this and hijack processes, an RNA transcript in a vaccine can’t, unless the cell alters it somehow or something else occurs.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Tell that to the 2.9 million dead, and counting.

Deny ignorance?

And you are a Mod?

Guessing math is not your strong suit.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: LordAhriman

Then why are you here?

I've been here for long time. It used to be fun. I'm holding out hope that fun comes back someday.

Right now it's:

Trump: God
Biden: bad
Covid: fake
Vaccines: listen to the rednecks who didn't finish 5th grade.

And from your point of view it's .

Trump : Bad
Biden : God
Covid : Real and Permanent because the MSM says so, and what ever they say is the Truth or my whole world fall apart.
Vaccines : Our Salvation
Mask : Absolutely necessary and not virtue signaling at all .

It is scary that you have been here a " long time" and you are so narrow minded and washed via the Left that it beggars belief.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Im a statistician and accountant. I see 2.9mil, divide it by 330mil, and assess the risk as being "low".

Like any sane, rational person who can do actual math.

Nice logical fallacy regarding me being a moderator.. If you roll it up nice and tight you can....

.....light it on fire to stay warm.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

2.9 million dead? Let's just ignore that shall we?

Just a small statistic?

How are your "statistics" going in Brazil?

As in real people dead?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
The paper was published on Dec. 13, 2020. The first vax administered, IIRC, was around Dec. 8, 2020.

Everything they are talking about in that paper is based solely on the virus.

ETA: The full text of that paper can be found here and no mention of vaccines is made:
www.biorxiv.org...

The vaccine resembles the mRNA strand of the virus. it is supposedly engineered to be more durable than the RNA strand of the virus, and therefore could have unpredictable effects. mRNA strands normally degrade relatively quickly, but apparently according to the following article they are engineered to endure longer.

more discussion

If the virus does it, then in theory the mRNA strand would also do it. Unless they made some modifications that specifically deters reverse transcriptase (which I'm not sure is even a possibility at this point?)

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
a reply to: cooperton

No vaccines are synthetic RNA strands without a nuclear localization signal. To get through the nucleus, you need a signal, it’s like a key or you’re not getting into the nucleus. Viruses get creative with this and hijack processes, an RNA transcript in a vaccine can’t, unless the cell alters it somehow or something else occurs.

The thing is, if the virus is capable of eliciting reverse transcriptase and DNA integration, then it is possible that the vaccine mRNA strand would also do the same. If the vaccine is purposefully engineered to avoid this I would like to see how they managed that. That would be a wonderful safety precaution but I doubt they could pull that off with a high degree of certainty.

originally posted by: cooperton
If the virus does it, then in theory the mRNA strand would also do it.

I'm not saying that the vax won't do it, I'm saying that without the vaccines these alterations were going to happen anyway.

So, if by the time herd immunity was reached 90% of the worlds population had this change in dna caused by the virus, it would still be there.

a reply to: cooperton

No not exactly. So what they are saying is HIV reverse transcriptase can incorporate genetic material from SARS-CoV-2 into the genome once it accesses the nucleus. LINE-1, which is a transposable element type reverse transcriptase can also incorporate, LINE-1 is much more active in cancers or other problematic issues but still active at times in all of us, could even integrate viral protein components to benefit our immune cells.

SARS-CoV-2, the virus, can access the nucleus because it is going to hijack transcription factors like STAT pathways that regulate cellular antiviral inflammatory signaling. It can block certain pathways of gene expression, down regulating them, and then up regulate other pathways to give it an advantage. It will also attempt to increase protein production for viral production by using signaling from the nucleolus as well, it’s where ribosomes come from to translate proteins from mRNA. It changes gene expression to benefit viral production rather than cell production.

mRNA from a vaccine is just a small component of SARS-CoV-2, a synthetic copy, to generate viral proteins in the cytoplasm. These are then presented to the innate/adaptive immune cells depending on whether or not it is an antigen presenting cell. The mRNA from these vaccines has no supporting proteins to help it access the nucleus so it isn’t going in there. It goes straight to ribosomes, they use it again and again, slowly degrading a built in timer at the polyA tail, once that is gone, it’s destroyed. That happens in days, the rest is destroyed before it gets to the cell.

The adenovirus vector vaccines insert a DNA plasmid into the nucleus, that has incorporated in studies but it’s not likely, plasmids should be longer lasting compared to mRNA as well. People can also react to the adenovirus vector with repeat exposure to the same or similar adenoviruses, causing reactions and preventing immunity.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
The paper was published on Dec. 13, 2020. The first vax administered, IIRC, was around Dec. 8, 2020.

Everything they are talking about in that paper is based solely on the virus.

ETA: The full text of that paper can be found here and no mention of vaccines is made:
www.biorxiv.org...

oh yeah good call I read that too quickly initially. I was wondering how a paper with a stance against vaccines could have possibly gotten published. The fact is our body on its own can neutralize covid with about 99.9% efficacy. To rush a vaccine for something so non-lethal is a rash decision. If you fear the virus and really want to get vaccinated then go ahead it's your choice. But bioengineered mRNA directly injected into my body is not on my bucket list.

If the vaccine is only temporarily effective, you will inevitably be faced with the regular virus anyway, and be exposed to the gene-altering effects. But we shouldn't worry, our immune system knows how to permanently mitigate these factors 99.9% of the time. I trust that more than Pfizer et al.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

I didn't get a chance to read too much into it, but we do have endogenous reverse transcriptase

endogenous reverse transcriptase

I forget if they are cytosolic or not. Usually I'm more helpful but I'm multitasking at the moment.

My over-arching stance is that it is dangerous to inject bioengineered mRNA strands into organisms. Maybe not all the time. Maybe not this vaccine. Maybe not ever. But there is a chance we really screw up with artificially eliciting our immune system. Remember how margarine used to be such a good idea? Now we'd like to forget about ever trying synthetic trans fats. Remember the old food pyramid? My point is, we are arrogant to think that we are absolutely right in manipulating genetic biochemical cascades. Especially when our immune system has been doing a very good job

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Im a statistician and accountant. I see 2.9mil, divide it by 330mil, and assess the risk as being "low".

2.9mil is the deaths throughout the world. so 2.9mil divided by 8 billion is 0.036% of the population. That doesn't take into consideration that they were counting car accidents as covid deaths if you tested positive for covid. The real number of covid deaths is likely remarkably lower.

17 million people die per year from heart disease, yet no one is up in arms about the food additives that are known to contribute to heart disease. Seriously, if the government actually cared about saving lives we would stop allowing toxic food on our grocery shelves. less than a billion dollars could give everyone in the USA a gym membership (not that I support such an idea, but given the latest spending stimulus this would be a drop in the bucket). But clearly there are more overarching agendas that are supported by amplifying the covid hysteria.

originally posted by: cooperton
If the vaccine is only temporarily effective, you will inevitably be faced with the regular virus anyway, and be exposed to the gene-altering effects. But we shouldn't worry, our immune system knows how to permanently mitigate these factors 99.9% of the time. I trust that more than Pfizer et al.

Vaccines have never kept people from facing the virus they are made to protect against. All they do is prepare the immune system to deal with them with a quicker response.

And my point was never about the need for a vaccine anyway. It was about the content and the source of the data used in that paper.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The SARS-nCoV-2 virus is just not a retrovirus. There is no reverse transcriptase involved with it, or with mRNA genomic sequences taken from it.

.... Now, explain once more how rams-bladders may be employed to prevent tidal waves?



I feel ripped-off, I was bitten by an actual radioactive spider, and all I got was a painful bump. No powers or nuthin'.

I also fell into a volcano and all I got there was grass stains and grazes.

Guess real life is never like the 'graphic novels'.

a reply to: cooperton

Here’s a better summary of the process, easier to read. It will be more active in patients with severe inflammation, younger patients, possibly babies in the womb, HIV coinfection, cancers, highly differentiating and dividing cell types (GI tract, neurological tissue, respiratory tract etc.), and most likely pre-cancerous areas.

www.news-medical.net...

Not the vaccine though, but yes with coronavirus and a slew of others.

a reply to: LordAhriman

The feeling is mutual, your interminable trust and defence of the MSM and government narrative and attempts to inculcate other posters with your garbage never ceases to make me laugh.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

2.9 million dead? Let's just ignore that shall we?

Just a small statistic?

How are your "statistics" going in Brazil?

As in real people dead?

I just love when people quote Numbers like " 2.9 million " as just unaltered concrete facts .

I wonder Oldcarpy2 ? Did you count all 2.9 million ? Did you perform autopsies on all 2.9 million confirming that Covid-19 was the cause of death ?

Do you have any idea how many people die every day nay every year from Cancer ? Do you have any idea the suffering that is caused via other Viruses , Diseases and Cancers around the world ?

And yet we focus on Covid and you ask no questions

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I just love it when people won't believe figures unless they have personally counted the dead or performed autopsies themselves. That's just ridiculous..

Should I discount everything unless I personally witnessed it?

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow


And yet we focus on Covid and you ask no questions

This is what is so suspect. Pure statistics show there are much greater threats to health than covid. Threats that we actually could mitigate, even by something as simple as banning GMOs or synthetic pesticides/herbicies. We never hold the people accountable who are toxifying us and our environment. Hell, we can't even consider that maybe covid came from a bioengineering accident in Wuhan.... there's absolutely no accountability, just restrictive solutions that resolve nothing.

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc

Not the vaccine though, but yes with coronavirus and a slew of others.

Ehh, but the vaccine is admittedly not permanent. Therefore once you're vulnerable again, you will end up assimilating the viral DNA anyway. To have 8 billion people taking a bi-annual vaccine is absurd. It is a battle we can't win by bioengineering... But luckily our immune system almost always knows how to mitigate these nanoscopic pests.