Who are the 144,000

So I was just reading through another thread about the "rapture" and a lot of mention was made of the 144,000. I was going to respond there but thought it was way off topic. I did make a post explaining what the Bible says about the calling to heavenly life. Several comments were made about the 144,000. So here I wish to take the time to give a Biblical explanation of the number to the gentle reader.

Was talking with a Jew from Israel a few months ago, we met online on another forum and he was asking me about how he could become one of the 144,000. Well it was a long talk with him. But he finally understood who are meant when the Bible refers to the group.

Now it is mentioned two times in the last book of the Bible, Revelation. Once in Revelation 7:4 and again in Revelation 14:1. Some like him think that the group is of 144,000 Jews, and that is understandable. But if we look closer we will see that the 144,000 are spiritual Israelites, and not all are fleshly Jews.

Firstly take a look at the reference to the 144,000 in Revelation 7:



Starting in verse 4 you will see the number sealed 144,000. Then in verses 4-8 you will see a list of 12 tribes with 12,000 from each tribe to make up the 144,000.

Now keep this in mind, I posted a screenshot from my Bible with the names of the tribes highlighted.

Now if you have any Bible knowledge if you are asked how many tribes in Israel there were, you would probably respond 12. And that is a reasonable answer. But it is not quite the full story. There were actually 13 tribes. You can find the tribal listing in Numbers 1 (the name of the book Numbers is because it is the record of the census and registration of the Israelites when they left Egypt.)

Here it is:



Now if you notice the tribes highlighted in red for easier identification you will notice that the 12 tribes that received a land inheritance are listed apart from the 13th tribe, that of Levi, the priestly tribe that did not receive a land inheritance.

What is the importance of this? Actually a lot! If you notice in the tribal listings in Numbers 1 Joseph is NOT a tribe. That is because he received a double inheritance and his two children Manasseh and Ephraim were named as tribes.

If you look at Revelation 7:8 you will notice the tribe of Joseph being mentioned. In ancient Israel the tribe of Joseph did not exist. Also if you notice in Revelation 7:7 you see the tribe of Levi mentioned along with the 12 tribes listed here. In ancient Israel Levi was NOT part of the 12 tribes.

Why difference in tribal listings? It is because they are not the same. The tribes in Revelation 7 are of spiritual Israelites, that is, the anointed spirit-begotten Christian congregation.

Remember that the tribe of Levi was not counted among the other 12 in ancient Israel? That is because they did not receive a land inheritance. They represent the anointed Christian congregation that does not receive an inheritance on earth, rather their calling is to heavenly spirit life.

That is also why Jesus told the apostles at the night of his death that they would reign with him over the "12 tribes of Israel." Those would prefigure those who have a hope of living forever on earth. The priestly tribe of Levi then would represent those who would go to heaven to rule with Christ over the earth. But how can we be sure? Let us look at other Bible scriptures that will reveal this to us more plainly.

The first is Galatians 3:28, 29:



Here we are told the the spiritual Isrealite is not so because of a physical birth. Rather it does not matter what ethnic origin a person is, if they have been called by holy spirit they become children of God, heirs of the promises, the offspring of Abraham. The Israel of God.

To further verify this we note Galatians 6:15,16:



Again notice that circumcision is nothing neither is uncircumcision. Now to get a little of the context of Galatians, Paul was writing to Jews who had converted to Christianity and were trying to push Jewish traditions upon non-Jews and showing prejudice towards those who were not circumcised. Paul had to correct their thinking. They came from a way of worship that had become antiquated. When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah and put him to death, God rejected them as a nation, and he established the Christian congregation. And after a period of 3/12 years after Jesus was raised to heaven, starting with the uncircumcised gentile Cornelius, a Roman centurion, God began to accept people of the nations into the Christian congregation and baptizing them with holy spirit, having them form part of the spiritual Israel. This is because the majority of Israelites rejected Jesus and his disciples, and refused God's invitation.

Let us go to the next reference of the 144,00 in the Bible it is found in Revelation 14:1, here by comparing what it says about certain distiinguishing features of the select group with other scriptures it becomes more apparent who they are, where they are, and what their position is:



Here we are told that the 144,00 are on Mount Zion with the lamb. Now talking with that Jew he was sure this was referring to the Mount in Israel where the temple was built. But comparing this with other scripures we see this is not the case. The 144,000 are not on earth at all in this vision.

Notice where Mount Zion is in this reference from the Bible:



Notice where Mount Zion is here? Yes it is in heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God in heaven. So the Mount Zion the 144,000 are standing on with the Lamb is in heaven, that is also where Jesus Christ, who is the Lamb resides. Those of the 144,00 have been enrolled in the heaven.

Let us return to Revelation 14. There referring to the 144,00 we are further told (v 3,4)



So the 144,000 are bought from earth as firstfruits of mankind. They are in heaven with Jesus on heavenly Mount Zion. They follow Jesus wherever he may lead them. The fact that they are firstfruits is in the fact that they take part in the earlier resurrection. There are two resurrections. The first is to heavenly life, the second will be during the 1,000 year reign of Christ to earthly life.

Now there are other scriptures in Revelation that point to the 144,000 and their responibilies in heaven so we know exactly who they are and what they will do. Please notice in Revelation 14:1 above that it says these 144,000 have the distinction of having the name of Jesus and the Father (Jehovah) written on their foreheads. This is an important distinction because further on we see these ones in heaven with God and what they will do. Notice Revelation 22:3-5:



Notice here that those who have the name of God on their forehead (in verse 4) will no longer need sunlight and will no longer have nights. That is because they are in the very presence of Jehovah and Jehovah will shine always upon them. AND what? They will rule as kings forever and ever.

That these 144,000 then are rulers in heaven as kings there is no doubt. No other scripture refers to anyone having the name of God on their forehead except the 144,000 standing on heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb in heaven.

We are further enlightened about this fact in Revelation 20:6:



cont.

So to continue...



Here we see that those who have the first resurrection (that will be to heavenly spirit life) will reign as priests of God and of the Christ and will rule as kings for 1,000 years.

That this was the hope of the first century Christians there is no doubt. Jesus told his faithful apostles they would rule with him in his kingdom. The apostle Paul mentions the fact that they will rule as kings (speaking to the anointed Christian congregation):

(1 Corinthians 4:8) . . .Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings.

This was because certain members of the Corinthian congregation were teaching that they had already become kings on earth. Paul had to correct their thinking. It was revealed that their rulership would be in heaven. They would have to die first. And they would have to sleep in death until Jesus returned in his kingly power to resurrect them, not as humans, but in the divine form of God and his son Jesus Christ, in heavenly immortal spirit bodies where the 144,000 will live forever and ever and reign as kings and priests for the 1,000 years with the Christ over the earth.

So the 144,000 are not literal Jews. And not all Christians today are part of the select. They are spirit-anointed Christians with the hope God implants in them to go to heaven to rule with Christ.

You left out the most important part

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Instead of focusing on numbers and tribes, you can't influence or change
Why not start listening and figuring out what song God wants you to sing?

I sent my 20 bucks to 'Bob.'
I get Eternal Salvation or triple my money back.

a reply to: MidnightHawk
I did my own thread on this back in 2010.
I believe you are absolutely right to think of them as spiritual Israel rather than literal Israel.
And absolutely right to invite us to see significance in the names of the tribes.

I see an additional significance in those names;
There are two overlapping lists of names in the Old Testament.

Firstly, there is the list of "sons of Jacob". This includes Levi (a son of Leah) and Joseph (a son of Rachel).

When it comes to the actual listing of the tribes of Israel, Joseph is divided into Manasseh and Ephraim, and Levi is left out to keep the number at twelve.

Comparing the list in Revelation with that second list, we see that the names "Joseph" and "Levi" have come back, replacing the names "Ephraim" and "Dan". Now Ephraim and Dan were two unfaithful tribes- they housed the two calf-images of Jeroboam. On the other hand, Joseph and Levi were both recorded as faithful, Joseph repelling temptation, and Levi standing up for the Lord at Shiittim (you can't spell that name properly on this site). So two faithful names have replaced two unfaithful names. That can't be a coincidence. The sealed represent God's faithful people.

Where I part company with you is that I believe the number is also non-literal. Each tribe is numbered as 12x10x10x10. 12 is the number of God's people. 10 is the number of completeness, which is here intensified. The overall total mutiplies by another 12, so that is intensified as well.
The spiritual signficance of the number is "The totality of God's faithful people."

For this reason (and because I don't believe in a Rapture), I don't separate the 144,000 from the overall total of faithful Christians (I can't quite tell whether you distinguish them or not).

a reply to: Peeple
The Song is also called "the Song of Moses". Since Moses was singing about being saved from the Egyptians, the gist of the Song here must be "God has saved us from our enemies".

Allegories.

144,000 is a good breeding number for a devestated Planet in need of a re-boot.

No Children only reproducing age Adults who are childless.

12,000 from each co-operating Country.

Groups of 144,000.....not a single group of 144,000.

Sealed in DUMBS.

Protected from something akin to or Noahs Flood.

Tasked with kickstarting Humanity Post-Armageddon.

This is the literal clean-up Crew.

These People have been INDOCTRINATED....prior to the Events...they know who they are.

The future coalesces around them...they have to do nothing but exist as they are now...

The leaders of doctrinal Groups ALL HAVE THIS KNOWLEDGE....they have all been carrying it forward unbeknownst to each Group together they have preserved Humanities One True History.

Not many DUMBS survive intact.

Noahs method of survival is not only a true record is also an allegory that teaches us all how to try to survive the incoming Event....how to work WITH Nature instead of fighting Nature.

I embrace the teachings of all doctrinal writings....one must to see the entire Picture....the allegorical nature of these writings is a commonality as is the chiastic structure that represents a unique SIGNATURE found within ALL OF THEM.

There is a co-operative effort to be defined from within these allegories...on where People with high Technology and Knowledge are working with others who posses low technology and knowledge....these People are co-existing....on the same timeline.....exactly as North Americas co-exist on the same timeline with Primitive Amazon Tribes..... everybody is up on top of Mountains for a very hands-on reason....seemingly in diverse co-operating Groups of 144,000 .... waiting to be "picked up"....to ride out the Storm.

IMHO these groups of 144,000 were catalysing together atop Mountain peaks around the same time Noah was putting the finishing touches on his Ark....and IMHO there were other Groups of 144,000 heading Underground @ this same time.

Masses are Raptured together or go somewhere together.
Some remain in diverse co-operating Groups of 144,000.
Some are Saved from atop high points by "God" or Aliens....utilizing highest technology
Some are Saved in Vessels by Noahs Arks.....utilizing medium grade technology.
Some are Saved in Bunkers beneath Turtle Island underground....utilizing no technology.

Most of these People who survive in these Groups do not make it for very long.....Humanity plunges to the brink of extinction....but we always find ways to survive...and to re-teach one another...to re-discover our Heritage.

This is how I see the 144,000 defined.....co-operating diverse Groups of People facing destruction who are attempting to become a Vanguard for all of Humanity in as many ways as possible.

a reply to: DISRAELI

You mean the one with vengeance and blood and swords?
Good luck with that, DeathCultMember.
Be sure to sacrifice a goat while singing.

The 144,001'th dude that doesn't make the train is gonna have some good fodder for a blues tune.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DISRAELI

You mean the one with vengeance and blood and swords?
Good luck with that, DeathCultMember.
Be sure to sacrifice a goat while singing.

That is a "lamb without blemish" .
At least get it right.

Also , do you have anything to comment on that IS on topic ?

a reply to: Gothmog

No I meant goat. For a reason.

My first comment was totally on topic, yours not.

a reply to: MidnightHawk

REv 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

They were ALL MALES, ALL BLUE BLOOD JEWS, THEY WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN AND WERE ALL VIRGINS, THEY HAD THEIR FATHER'S NAME IN THEIR FOREHEADS, THEY SUNG A NEW SONG NO ONE ELSE COULD LEARN OR SING BEFORE THE THRONE IN HEAVEN (not on earth), THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH FROM AMONG MEN AT THAT TIME and THEY FOLLOWED THE LAMB EVERYWHERE HE WENT.

a reply to: one4allTasked with kickstarting Humanity Post-Armageddon.

MALES CANNOT REPRODUCE. Re-Read the scriptures again they are all males.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

a reply to: one4allTasked with kickstarting Humanity Post-Armageddon.

MALES CANNOT REPRODUCE. Re-Read the scriptures again they are all males.

Where did Eve come from ...if not Adams rib.

Having spoken about this topic many times I will just add God was also replacing angels that had rebelled and become demons. Instead of creating new beings, he will draw on humans born on earth that were most faithful to him until death.
This serves many purposes, one being to Satan, rewarding those that replied to the great taunter.
This number was never going to be limitless, it had a number as discussed in this thread.
Where does that leave the rest of humanity, the same place as that Chinese peasant that lived 3000 years ago, he lived and died in absolute ignorance of both God and Christ. Since nobody ever told him the message he could never accept or reject it.
As the bible states there will be a mass resurrection back to earth of these types of people, they will be informed and act on what they learn.
Since billions of Christian’s have lived and died since Jesus came to earth, it seems like a very small number. God is taking the very best.
Also first century Jews actually had the chance to fill the number completely as God’s chosen people, only a very few disciples took up the opportunity. And the very first gentile going to heaven; Cornelius and probably his entire family since they all converted.

a reply to: MidnightHawk

Its almost like you are being teased by an unclear riddle but it's only your very soul that's at stake.


You're a bomb disposal technician and your god answers your prayer to assist you with making the correct choice between the red and the blue wire and he beguns by saying "Four score and seven years ago your forefathers..."

Oh. Ok god. Let's play a game.

What could go wrong?


There are more than a billion Christians worldwide right?


Seems like #ty odds to me.


By the way, what are the odds of having one of those 144,000 right here on ATS?

What?

All of you?


Incredible!

a reply to: MidnightHawk

Head over to the Q thread. I thought that someone kept tossing around an unsealed USA federal indictments number which are approaching 144,000?

I dont mean to throw the thread off.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: MidnightHawk

REv 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

They were ALL MALES, ALL BLUE BLOOD JEWS, THEY WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN AND WERE ALL VIRGINS, THEY HAD THEIR FATHER'S NAME IN THEIR FOREHEADS, THEY SUNG A NEW SONG NO ONE ELSE COULD LEARN OR SING BEFORE THE THRONE IN HEAVEN (not on earth), THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH FROM AMONG MEN AT THAT TIME and THEY FOLLOWED THE LAMB EVERYWHERE HE WENT.

They were men, they were alike,they were Single unmarried,they were called to gather on a mountain where together they held the thought of their god in their fore-heads at the front of the line.they communicated together in ways others could not comprehend,they were the only survivors,they followed the Meek or the Lamb .

A bunch of single guys who were alike and who held similar beliefs volunteered to go into a bunker atop a Mountain,they used communication methods that were unusual which the masses couldnt undrstand,likely telepathy or just a radio of some type that they used to talk to the Throne or Boss ,then post-event as Survivors they followed a Meek Lamb or leader around from place to place,likely gathering resources or trying to find other Bunkers and people.

a reply to: 19Bones79

The odds of one of the 144,000 posting here would be a microscopic percentage of 1%.
The fact that these have been being gathered since Jesus came to the earth, means there are relatively little left here on earth right now. The so called rapture (not what I will call it) might only be noticed by friends and family when it happens.
And we still don’t know if their physical bodies will disappear at this event. Think of a vanishing deceased Jedi.

Had their Father’s name on their foreheads? Sounds a lot like cattle being branded.

They will be like Kings? How many historical Kings (pre bible) do you recall who lived a peaceful and benevolent life sacrificing riches, food or pleasure and dedicating their whole lives bettering the lives of their subjects? Certainly not King Herod.

a reply to: ChesterJohn