Robert Bigelow clears the air about Bob Lazar and those who spread false rumors

originally posted by: A51Watcher
1 Bob said he stole 500 lbs of E115 from Area 51.
Not true, he never said any such thing.

Bob said there was 500 pounds of it, and there are articles saying he stole some of it which may be technically incorrect and not proven, but you can't prove your counterclaim either which is that he didn't steal it personally, someone else did and Bob Lazar received some smaller quantity of element 115 as stolen material of the highest possible value from a secure, classified facility. The fact is your counter claim isn't true either, there's no stable version of 115, Lazar is lying about that and many other things.

2 Bob tried to swindle Bigelow with Aerogel claiming it was E115.

That's not what Jacque Vallee claimed, he didn't say "aerogel", he referred to "commercial emulsive product", see the screenshot from his book:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: mirageman
Truth is if Bob's story was real he has absolutely nothing but a story. Who's trying to prove him a fake? Oh!

Jacques Vallee noted Bob Bigelow sussed him out pretty quickly pretending he had the mysterious stable version of E115 but it was in fact industrial emulsifier.

See Forbidden Science 4

Bob never did any such thing. If he had, Bigelow could have easily said so in the mystery wire interview. He did not do so.

I'm not sure I believe 100% of what Jacque Vallee claims either, but between the three people of him, Bob Bigelow and Bob Lazar, I think Vallee might be the least untrustworthy in this particular claim about Bob Bigelow ending the partnership with Bob Lazar. Why did Bigelow end the partnership with Lazar so quickly if not for the reason Vallee explained, did Bigelow really explain that to your satisfaction in the interview? I'm not buying it was because Lazar stored some furniture in the lab. If Lazar was going to make me richer, I wouldn't have had a problem with him storing some furniture, we've had some employees do that at the back of our lab workspace and none of them got fired. And why did Vallee publish what he did if it wasn't true, which could subject him to a libel suit from his (former?) employer Bob Bigelow, or maybe even from Bob Lazar?

Those 2 points were the purpose of this thread. Believe or disbelieve Bob as you see fit, but don't base it on false information.

My point about watching the interview is that I think Bob Bigelow's body language does not suggest he is being candid and telling the truth, certainly not the whole truth, so I'm not ruling out that what is presented in the interview is not reliable information. Why did they form the partnership and why did it end so quickly? The interview raises more questions about that than it answers, so it's not am effective rebuttal to Jacque Vallee's claims, in fact they never specifically deny Jacque Vallee's claims, never seem to give a specific real reason why the partnership was formed, and never seem to give a specific real reason why the partnership was ended so quickly, just what seems to me to be an implausible inference regarding some furniture storage. Lazar storing furniture sounds plausible, but I doubt that's what got him "fired", and Bigelow never said specifically what ended the partnership.

The air is not cleared at all by the interview, which raised more questions than it answered, so the premise in the title of this thread is false, as is much of Bob Lazar's story, though there are a few elements of truth mixed in with the lies, and some researchers like Tom Mahood have spent considerable effort to determine which parts of the story are true and which aren't.

So the guy who claims to have visited Area 51 and didn't see anything... do we have a date on that?

Alien "scientist" ? Does he think claiming he believed Bob at first gives him more credibility? No he did his research on the internet full of debunkers like all the rest including you.

And the roadrunner story oh please. Would his "friend" really risk her job, security clearance, fines and jail time to give him classified data? Did she provide a copy of the data she supposedly found? More likely her superiors decided it would do their debunking cause more good to cook up the dosimeter badge story rather than just stay silent.

Did she make him promise not to tell anyone ever? Lot of good that did.

I notice you haven't mentioned Dr. Krangle. Anyone manage to debunk him yet? Obviously not or you would have included that also.

Sure I can't prove my counterclaim that Bob did not steal the E115 but it is not my claim, it was Bobs. Can you prove he said he did? He did mention however what material he encased it in before burying it.

There plenty of debunkers to quote and you are welcome to believe them as anyone else is if they wish.

There is also plenty of people who went out to Area 51 personally to investigate his claims who saw and filmed the craft under intelligent control right when and where he said they would be.

Plasma balls only appearing on Wednesday night? Operating under intelligent control?

Thats the most hilarious one ever and I am still laughing about that one.

You like anyone is welcome to believe what they wish, but those who investigated in person have a keener insight than those who did not.

Your claim that Robert Bigelow coughing and scratching his nose is a poker "tell" does not impress me. Weak sauce is what I call it.

Buying into internet rumors does not impress me.

Saucers using gravity propulsion being tested on government property does.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
And the roadrunner story oh please. Would his "friend" really risk her job, security clearance, fines and jail time to give him classified data?

Your reading comprehension or memory are dismal. Davis specifically said the logistics facility where Lazar worked didn't require a security clearance, though I've already said I can't verify his claim. But IF what Davis said is true, then Lazar's supervisor at that Logistics support facility would also not require any security clearance so why are you talking about her security clearance etc? It's like you don't even get a minimal comprehension of the things being posted.

I notice you haven't mentioned Dr. Krangle. Anyone manage to debunk him yet? Obviously not or you would have included that also.

It was in the link, but apparently, you don't read the links, you just spew out ignorant comments that prove you didn't even read the links. In the previously posted Eric Davis link, "aliens are here" believer and real physicist Stanton Friedman said he talked to Krangle who confirmed that Lazar worked at Los Alamos and had a security clearance there, but Krangle couldn't confirm anything about the relevant part of Lazar's story of working at area 51 or S4, or being a physicist there, or any security clearances (or lack of them) at area 51/S4, and Krangle agreed with Friedman that Lazar's story about 500 pounds of element 115 sounded "way beyond reality":

Eric Davis: “Lazar Made Up His Entire Cockamamie Story”

(Stanton Friedman: )
"So Dr. Krangle did provide evidence for those who think that Bob never worked at Los Alamos and those who didn’t think he had a security clearance. He did not provide any particular indication that Bob was a scientist or worked anywhere – Area 51 or S-4 or whatever – on back engineering UFOs, which is the whole thing that makes his story so exciting.

Dr. Krangle didn’t say, oh yes, I checked and he was. a physicist working for Los Alamos. I saw his name, his job title or whatever on some kind of piece of paper. And Krangle agreed with me that talking about 500 pounds of Element 115 seemed way beyond reality.

Plasma balls only appearing on Wednesday night? Operating under intelligent control?

Thats the most hilarious one ever and I am still laughing about that one.

Apparently you didn't read or don't understand the explanation. Yes they were alleged to be part of a test according to Mahood, though he can't prove they were plasma balls any more than you can prove they were flying saucers, either would be part of a classified testing program at area 51 that is still not declassified. It's easier to prove things like Lazar was no physicist and that there's no such thing as a stable version of element 115 as Lazar alleges regardless of the mass of the star which really doesn't have anything to do with whether 115 is on Earth or not, that is just more ignorance on Lazar's part, proving he doesn't know physics at all.

I still don't believe that anyone with access to employee records of people working on the range would be allowed to freely provide those records to anyone whether civilian or military without a need to know. Pics or it didn't happen.

Dr. Krangle stated he saw Bob on a regular basis attend meetings that required a TS clearance with him and other physicists at Los Alamos. This confirms an attempt to erase his work history as he claimed causing him to panic along with shots being fired at him on a freeway on ramp.

You are confusing comprehension with caring about your links and repeating debunker claims you cannot verify.

Prehaps it is you that cannot comprehend that I cannot UNsee what I witnessed there i.e. saucers using gravity propulsion technology that produces uncanny speeds and maneuvers.

As such anything you or anyone else says makes no difference to me since I know there has to be an alternate explanation for your concerns.

Bob revealed the most amazing TS technology the world has ever known and nothing you or anyone else can say will ever convince me otherwise.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
I still don't believe that anyone with access to employee records of people working on the range would be allowed to freely provide those records to anyone whether civilian or military without a need to know. Pics or it didn't happen.

Dr. Krangle stated he saw Bob on a regular basis attend meetings that required a TS clearance with him and other physicists at Los Alamos. This confirms an attempt to erase his work history as he claimed causing him to panic along with shots being fired at him on a freeway on ramp.

Krangle again? OK Eric Davis's claim that Lazar was a radiation health tech was second-hand, and you didn't believe Davis.

But here is a first hand account by John Lear that says he went to Los Alamos (where Krangle worked) with Bob Lazar to work on Bob Lazar's contract for what sounds to me exactly like radiation health monitor type work, so is very consistent with what Eric Davis says, from a first-hand account. I guess you're not interested since you say nothing anyone says will sway you, but for anybody else interested in truth, here's a first hand account of Bob's radiation health monitor work and in case you're wondering if this is what scientists do, well I suppose you could say he's repairing and maintaining scientific equipment, but this is what technicians do, it's NOT what scientists do.

John Lear talks about Bob Lazar's "radiation health" equipment maintenance work at Los Alamos, time index 19:20

So Lear also confirms that Bob was at Los Alamos like Krangle does. But Krangle didn't know what Bob Lazar did at Los Alamos. Lear actually helped Bob Lazar with his work at Los Alamos so that's a pretty intimate kind of knowing what Lazar did, much more informative than what Krangle said since Krangle only said Lazar "looked like" a sciency guy, and when asked by Friedman, Krangle said he never saw anything about Lazar's position, title, or didn't even know what kind of work he did. (by the way we know that Lazar only worked AT Los Alamos and not FOR Los Alamos because of the K/M next to Lazar's name in the old Los Alamos phone directory, meaning Lazar worked for Kirk Mayer, a company that hired technicians, not scientists).

This is more about the "K/M" next to Lazar's name in the Los Alamos phone directory:

Lazar worked at Los Alamos, showed George Knapp around there and people seemed to know him. His name was in the phone book in 1982.

After Lazar got to Los Alamos and set up his photo processing business, he managed to get a limited term, contract job with Kirk-Mayer. Kirk-Mayer was one of the smaller contractors supplying support staff to the Los Alamos lab, such as data entry personnel, machinists, fabricators and electronic technicians. Kirk-Mayer never did provide “physicists” or positions of that caliber...

He was there often enough to get listed in the LANL phone directory, with the denotation “K/M” next to his name, indicating his affiliation with Kirk-Mayer.

So the same phone directory that proves Lazar worked at Los Alamos, proves he wasn't employed by Los Alamos as a scientist, it shows K/M meaning Kirk Mayer, not a Los Alamos employee, and K/M didn't hire physicists.

You are confusing comprehension with caring about your links and repeating debunker claims you cannot verify.

Prehaps it is you that cannot comprehend that I cannot UNsee what I witnessed there i.e. saucers using gravity propulsion technology that produces uncanny speeds and maneuvers.

As such anything you or anyone else says makes no difference to me since I know there has to be an alternate explanation for your concerns.

Bob revealed the most amazing TS technology the world has ever known and nothing you or anyone else can say will ever convince me otherwise.

This is more or less the same argument I hear from flat eathers. No evidence from us round earthers seems to matter to them, all the other facts, all the other arguments mean nothing to someone who has gone outside and seen for themselves that the earth is flat as far as the eye can see, and apparently nothing will convince them otherwise. Except they actually do see a flat looking earth. Did you only see lights at night? Because that's all I've seen you post, no flying saucers.

I'm sure lights made in the sky by proton beams as Mahood claims could make amazing maneuvers, so if that's what they were and you saw them, then you could very well have seen some amazing maneuvers of the lights, I don't doubt that. Since Mahood can't prove his claim either, I keep an open mind, but what he has proven is that it's plausible, even if he hasn't proven it's true.

So do you have a time period when Bob refurbished those dosimeters?

I am quite certain it was not during the time period when he was employed at S4.


And how is it that plasma balls only appeared right on schedule on Wednesday nights?

How is it they flew back in the direction of Papoose after their test flights.

How is it they landed on the desert floor and took off again after 20 minutes?

How is it 2 of these plasma balls hovered dead still close to each other for several minutes then began performing impossible maneuvers in tandem for several minutes then again hover dead still for a few minutes before going on about their separate ways?

And if you check John Lears facebook page last year he posted that during the early years when Bob discovered his past was being disappeared, (along with his birth certificate) he gave John a copy of his diplomas for safekeeping and later when they became important John checked and they were missing from his file cabinet along with several other important documents.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
So do you have a time period when Bob refurbished those dosimeters?

I am quite certain it was not during the time period when he was employed at S4.

Again you're showing little comprehension of the well-documented timeline. Lear clearly says he went to Los Alamos with Bob, that's not groom lake/S4/A51 which was later. I didn't hear John Lear say he helped Bob repair dosimiters at the Area 51 facility, but that's where Eric Davis said Bob worked at an unclassified logistics short facility for Area 51 that was off the classified part ofthe site and didn't require security clearance, as doing similar type of work.

The thing to note is the consistency of those two job descriptions, doing radiation health tech type work (not theoretical physics).

I watched the video of John Lear saying Lazar was a "theoretical physicist", at A51, but Lazar didn't go from repairing dosimeters to doing theoretical physics when he went from Los Alamos to Area 51. Maybe Bob told John that's what he was doing, but he wasn't. I know the story about Bob Lazar's background being disappeared is complete crap because as three different real physicists have told us (Stan Friedman, Tom Mahood and Dr. David L. Morgan ), everything they've seen from Bob Lazar shows he doesn't know physics like real physicist would. If Bob Lazar had physics degrees, "disappearing" the degrees wouldn't make Bob forget physics.

And how is it that plasma balls only appeared right on schedule on Wednesday nights?

How is it they flew back in the direction of Papoose after their test flights.

How is it they landed on the desert floor and took off again after 20 minutes?

How is it 2 of these plasma balls hovered dead still close to each other for several minutes then began performing impossible maneuvers in tandem for several minutes then again hover dead still for a few minutes before going on about their separate ways?

I haven't heard you say one reason why they couldn't do all those things. We have the ability to manipulate particle beams with incredible speed. Look at the electron beam painting the image on a CRT (old television) screen, and it moves so fast you can't even see the particle beam at 2500 frames per second in this slow-mo video, you can only start to see how fast the beam is going when the slowmo camera gets up over 25,000 frames per second, watch at least the 30 seconds from time index 2:15-2:45 to see how fast the particle beem can be steered left, right, up, down, using nothing but the cheap stuff in a cheap old consumer grade television set:



Inside that TV set, the particle beam is made of electrons, so hopefully you accept that the speed with which the electron beam can be manipulated is incredible if you understand what that video is saying. Now what if you wanted to scale that up into something more interesting? Instead of using an electrons, what if you used protons which are charged particles with the opposite charge, except they are 1836 times more massive than electrons. So, if you want to steer them as fast as you do the electrons in the TV set, you couldn't use the TV set electronics, you would need to scale that up to account for the greater mass, then you could steer the proton beam up, down, left, and right at incredible speeds.

But if you aim the proton beam in the air, how do you get the plasma ball and how far away is it from the source? That's explained at the link of physicist Tom Mahood, but basically you can control the distance of the plasma from the source by changing the energy of the protons (the distance from the proton gun to the plasma "tictac" shape is a function of the proton energy and the density of the air consistent with the Bragg peak). Give them more energy, the plasma will form further away from the source, so you can control the location of the plasma in three dimensions, using energy for the distance, and using electronics similar to an old TV set but generating stronger magnetic fields to steer the beam left, right, up, down. That gives you three dimensions of control and the plasma could outperform any aircraft. If you need more control of the direction, you could mount the proton gun on a turret that could rotate. So I see no reason why proton beam generated plasmas can't do everything you describe. If you want it to happen every Wed Night just run the tests with the proton beam every Wed Night, what kind of question is that? Why couldn't they do that?

And if you check John Lears facebook page last year he posted that during the early years when Bob discovered his past was being disappeared, (along with his birth certificate) he gave John a copy of his diplomas for safekeeping and later when they became important John checked and they were missing from his file cabinet along with several other important documents.

Read Dr. David L. Morgan's review, or Tom Mahood's or Stan Friedman's review of how Bob Lazar doesn't know physics, and explain how "disappearing" Bob's physics degrees would make him forget physics, and say nonsensical things that no real physicist would say. Bob Lazar was never a physicist.

"So I see no reason why proton beam generated plasmas can't do everything you describe."

Well the fact they are not tic tac shape but saucer shape as the frames from the video I posted for one reason.

Another is they can land on the desert floor and idle for 20 minutes before taking off again is another.

Another is they have a solid 3 dimensional shape as shown by forensic processing.






Remote control plasma balls is not an option IMO and many others including professional image analysts.

Have any videos of remote control plasma balls to compare?

a reply to: A51Watcher


Err, Forensic Analysis. Ah, no.

All that guy did was apply light processing upon light processing upon filters upon filters and processing over and over until he got the desired outcome.

Image processing is not magic. There is only limited amount you can do.

Go back and have a look at what he processed to start with and ask yourself how he ended with that result. The answer is he manipulated it to be such. There is no other way.

Well my friend, I'm afraid your opinion of the processor and what software was used and how, is based on ignorance of his software used and experience in using it.

He is a professional forensic image analyst and his work is accepted by the court as legitimate evidence and is used to convict criminals on a regular basis.

So... Err, Forensic Analysis. Ah, yes.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Seriously, this is a joke right?

Look at the original video. Look at the light blob of pixels, there is no way in the world you can end up with a defined craft with edges that make it look like Bob's UFO unless you manipulate it as such. If you think you can legitimately do that, then there is nothing I can say to convince you. You cannot legitimately get that outcome from a blob of pixels. This isn't Sci Fi where you have a pic of a handful of pixels and run it through some processing to get a fully defined image. It's like saying 1 + 1 = 3.

It's completely ridiculous

Why aren't blind believers holding Lazar accountable for having Element 115? That's what I don't understand. It's been 35 years and he's given up nothing. You're defending and arguing nonessential points. Why keep deflecting from the supposed truth? You understand he'll only continue to play the same game for decades more because he has a crowd of believers behind him that will run to his defense, right?

Now he has George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell involved in his story. Knapp has a direct connection. He said he knows where 115 is buried but apparently won't dig it up. Knapp also says he walked in on Lazar videotaping 115 with his friends and saw first hand how it bent light. He was given a tape of the demonstration but he doesn't know where it is now.

Jeremy Corbell claims he found a copy of the tape but it was recorded over. Just so happens he only has 20 seconds of the cool down period to fit into his film.

Giving out that tape and allowing it to be looked for shows Lazar is not afraid of being caught. But OOPS the copy has been lost and the other copy we see only has a 20 second period of the unimportant part.

Sorry, but, how naive and ignorant do you have to be to believe and accept this?
Hold him accountable.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
Knapp has a direct connection. He said he knows where 115 is buried but apparently won't dig it up.

Whatever Knapp digs up won't be element 115, there is no stable isotope of element 115. These are all the isotopes of element 115, with predicted half-lives on the second line, which are pretty short.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Just like with everything else involved with this case, anything can be said without the need for fact checking. Knapp has been allowed to get away with this comment because blind believers are so weak with their requirements that anything can be claimed. He knows this. Forget Lazar, he'll keep up the charade. Forget Corbell, he'll keep up the charade as well.

It shouldn't take a non-believer to question Knapp. There's no search for the truth. It's just finding a gullible group of people they can sell a story to.

a reply to: JackFrostvc

"Seriously, this is a joke right?"

The only joke is how incredibly late to the discussion you are. I have addressed your concerns about processing at length in my previous threads. You are welcome to read them and get up to speed on the discussion.

In the meantime here is a frame from Bob's footage with no processing -



and a frame from my footage with no processing -

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Correction - we have created no stable isotope YET.




Still waiting on you for video proof of a remote controlled plasma ball.

a reply to: A51Watcher

I don't see that at all in your footage. I see frames consistantly that look nothing like that.

Where is the raw footage you took? I can only see your footage in a side by side video

a reply to: A51Watcher

Lazar has it made having his cronies/fanboys making excuses for him left and right. Sidetracking to other issues rather than confront the actual one, does he have Element 115. Meanwhile, you have allowed him to sit back, cross his arms and watch knowing he doesn't have to do a single thing to continue his charade. Congratulations.

How about this, instead of arguing nonsense and stretching these sideline points, hold Lazar accountable for Element 115. Hold George Knapp accountable for 115. Lazar has shared videos of its use. In the least, demand this visual evidence from Lazar and Knapp.

Bob Lazar has done absolutely nothing for his supporters in 35 YEARS but continue to make them look foolish.👍

originally posted by: JackFrostvc
a reply to: A51Watcher

I don't see that at all in your footage. I see frames consistantly that look nothing like that.

Where is the raw footage you took? I can only see your footage in a side by side video

Well then I suggest you zoom the footage and watch it frame by frame.

...

Notice how Arbi goes quiet every time I ask for video proof of a remote controlled plasma ball?

Oops! There isn't any is the reason why.

...

Ecto how about YOU hold him accountable.

For many years now his only response to questions about the 3 nuggets of E115 he had at one time is NO COMMENT.

My guess is he has realized admitting to having said nuggests constitutes an admission of guilt to conspiring to steal govt property.

i think there's a lot of truth to his story but some details from his past are so difficult to either confirm or dismiss that it makes things less than clear-cut. in general i don't feel he is a 'fraud' per se.