Robert Bigelow clears the air about Bob Lazar and those who spread false rumors

a reply to: vance

I'm personally open to there being a bit more to the Lazar story than a publicity seeker.

What that is I doubt will ever surface but if you did have a particular disinformation campaign to run he might have made the perfect target. Background, temperament and wish to be acknowledged for his self taught physics knowledge all play to that.

I guess the hardest part and biggest cost would be the full scale saucer models.

a reply to: vanceyou know. Lol all these pundits know Lazar is lying. Comical.

a reply to: miragemansir/madame : I have asked you to qualify your investigations into these claims. I am still respectfully waiting. Some of your research is detailed and convincing. However, you have a penchant for Lazar and the whole A51 ET myth debunking. Can you fill me in on why you are uniquely qualified to say that his story is bull?

a reply to: Waterglasssmart post

a reply to: KansasGirl and you would know. Another comedian

Kansas is a good distance from Nellis , Baby Doll

a reply to: vance

BTW, the USG ; DIA,DOD, Los Alamos Lawrence Livermore crowd sent *people to universities to attend technical and task related classes under classified auspices on occasion. MIT was a good program that had attendees from the aforementioned.

Did Lazar attend or lie? This has been discussed at length and I’m not trying to bring it again up other than how the hel1 would you know?

*past tense because I don’t know what is occurring now in these grad classes and exchanges with three letter agencies

When is Robert Bigelow going to clear the air about Bob Lazar FAKE education. Lazar can't find 6-8 people that can prove he actually went to MIT and CalTech. No photos of him and classmates together. Not even a year book.

Truth about Bob Lazar Education www.youtube.com...

Lets see Bigelow and George Knapp Debunk that video with actual proof.

a reply to: play4keeps

Read the book by Richard Thieme. He mentions Dr. Paul R. Hill of NASA. Ever think that Lazar also spewed some bull sheep so they could not disappear him? Meaning he intensionally lied so they could use it against him to discredit. Yet hes alive and so is the story.

Has he made millions from it?

Thats what Thieme wrote about. Same goes for TTSA filed as entertainment.

Thieme speaks professionally to NSA, DOD, FBI, DHS and Secret Service. Follow those who run the show.

a reply to: Echo007

Are his videos faked also? You need to focus on facts. The videos are fact. Not subjective psyop narrative planted by others who possibly bid on Commerce Business Daily to discredit them all.

a reply to: A51Watcher
That interview doesn't clear the air at all. Look at what Jacque Vallee published in his book "Forbidden Science 4":

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: mirageman
Truth is if Bob's story was real he has absolutely nothing but a story. Who's trying to prove him a fake? Oh!

Jacques Vallee noted Bob Bigelow sussed him out pretty quickly pretending he had the mysterious stable version of E115 but it was in fact industrial emulsifier.

See Forbidden Science 4

So Jacque Vallee, who worked as a consultant to Bob Bigelow, made these claims. To clear the air, George Knapp would have to ask specifically about these claims made by Vallee. Does Knapp do that? No!!!!

Vallee claims the company formed by the two Bobs was to exploit the properties of element 115, and that the company ended after a short time because Bigelow found out Lazar's alleged element 115 was something else.

Does Bigelow address any of this specifically? No, he never really explains with any specificity why the company was formed, he doesn't either acknowledge or deny Vallee's claim it was formed to exploit properties of element 115.

So Knapp starts asking about aerogel, which Vallee doesn't mention by name. The gist of the interview is, aerogel was allegedly some kind of packing material for something else. What was the something else? I didn't hear any answer to that whether, it was the alleged element 115, or what was it if not that?

So everything was very vague, and didn't really make sense, like the reason Bigelow gave for why the company ended after such a short time, well, he never actually stated a reason specifically. Bigelow sort of implied that because Lazar stored some furniture in the lab of their joint venture, that's why he ended the joint venture but it's just an implication, and he never gives any specific reason, so again, the reason is not clear and Bigelow never contradicts Vallee's assertion directly which suggested that Lazar was trying to hoax him.

So there are no answers, just a very nervous man with way too many nervous "tics" having trouble answering Knapp's questions, did anybody actually watch the interview instead of just reading the transcript? Professional poker players know that some players have "tells" or have signs they show when they are lying or bluffing, usually without even realizing it. During the Lazar interview, Bigelow had an unusually large number of nervous signs like rubbing his nose and clearing his throat. So maybe you wonder if he just had an itchy nose and a frog in this throat. If that's your thought I don't think you're a very good poker player, especially since those "tells" by Bigelow are not present in the other interviews where he discusses topics he's more comfortable with. In the case of the Lazar interview, it seemed like he was evasive and tried to imply some things which suggested other happenings besides Vallee's claims, but he never explicitly denied vallee's calims, nor did Bigelow ever give any real reason why he ended his joint venture with Lazar.

Put yourself in Bigelow's shoes, some (alleged) scientist (Lazar) is going to make you even richer with his advanced knowledge of alien tech (or whatever reason they had for forming the joint venture), and the interview is apparently meant to lead us to believe that Bigelow decided to end the venture because the scientist stored some furniture in the lab? If I was Bigelow, and Lazar was going to make me rich, why would I fire Lazar for storing some furniture in the lab? I wouldn't.

We are not getting the full story from Bigelow, and all his "tells" suggest he's at least holding a lot back, if not lying, so they suggest to me to not trust what he says, at least not in the Lazar interview with all the "tells". Maybe in some of the other interviews where Bigelow is not showing so many "tells", he might be more candid or truthful and is therefore more relaxed without all the nervous "tics".

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: Echo007

Are his videos faked also? You need to focus on facts. The videos are fact. Not subjective psyop narrative planted by others who possibly bid on Commerce Business Daily to discredit them all.

The video by Stanton Friedman does focus on objectively verifiable claims that Lazar has made about his education. Friedman is/was not some "debunker", he's a real physicist who believes aliens are here and spent his life trying to convince people of that.

It's also a fact that Lazar made a tape basically proving that his understanding of physics is highly flawed which any real physicist can tell, like Friedman, Tom Mahood, and Dr. David L. Morgan who are all real physicists who have commented that Lazar's understanding of physics is deeply flawed and he doesn't even talk alike a real physicist:

After reading an account by Bob Lazar of the “physics” of his Area 51 UFO propulsion system, my conclusion is this: Mr. Lazar presents a scenario which, if it is correct, violates a whole handful of currently accepted physical theories. That in and of itself does not necessarily mean that his scenario is impossible. But the presentation of the scenario by Lazar is troubling from a scientific standpoint. Mr. Lazar on many occasions demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of current physical theories. On no occasion does he acknowledge that his scenario violates physical laws as we understand them, and on no occasion does he offer up any hints of new theories which would make his mechanism possible. Mr. Lazar has a propensity for re-defining scientific terms, and using scientific language in a confusing and careless way. For these reasons, I don’t feel that Lazar’s pseudo-scientific ramblings are really worthy of any kind of serious consideration.

Dr. Morgan continues at that link to look at all the information Lazar presented point by point describing how Lazar's understanding pf physics is deeply flawed, and wrong in many respects, or as Tom Mahood put it, it's so wrong, it's "not even wrong". Tom Mahood also points out that Lazar's video doesn't show a flying saucer, it shows a light in the sky, and he claims to know what it is and that Lazar also knew what the light was (a plasma ball) and that it wasn't a flying saucer.

originally posted by: vance
He lost it when real physicist accused him of being a phony. It's kinda like fake 'navy seals', the real Navy Seals know that they are lying, even though they claim 'classified', 'sealed' status. I tend to believe the real seals, just as I do real physicist.
As far as the troll and his assessment of my IQ, I don't have the time for such ****.

Yes, three real physicists, Stanton Friedman, Tom Mahood, and Dr. David L. Morgan have commented extensively on Lazar's lack of knowledge of physics. Not only his lack of education, but also the fact that he doesn't actually know physics either. I'll look more at a specific claim by Lazar that Morgan debunks in the next post.

originally posted by: chunder
Can you list Lazar's predictions ?

Not inferenced, just plain straight forward where he has said I predict....

Lazar said: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth." The interviewer even tried to make an exception that maybe it could be done in the future, but Bob explained why it couldn't, because "it would take an infinite amount of power and an infinite amount of time."

KLAS-TV program aired in Las Vegas, Nevada featuring Bob Lazar, November 14, 1989

The element, called 115, can be stored in lead casings much like this one [showing a lead circular container]. Lazar says the government has 500 pounds of it, and it cannot be made on earth.

Lazar: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."

Interviewer: "At least right now."

Lazar: "I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount of....you essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with protons if....atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.

The last sentence is a demonstration that Bob Lazar doesn't understand physics. Stars are fusion reactors, they fuse lighter elements into heavier elements and more massive stars will fuse heavier elements all the way up to iron, because there is still more energy out than energy in when the star makes iron. For elements heavier than iron, you have to put more energy in than you get out and no matter how massive the star is, it doesn't do that during its normal life. To put more energy in than you get out you need something like a supernova, which is where almost all the elements heavier than iron are made, but it's produced from the previous generation of stars, and has nothing to do with the mass of the current star. So the mass of our sun is not a limiting factor in what elements are found on Earth, for Lazar to suggest that is a sure sign of Lazar's complete failure to understand anything about modern nuclear physics, stellar nucleosynthesis, etc. Here are comments from a real physicist about Lazar's nonsense:

Physicist Dr. David L. Morgan critiques Bob Lazar's failure to understand physics

Now we get into some fuzzy astronomy. Mr. Lazar doesn’t seem to understand where heavy elements come from, or
how they are formed.

First we have to assume that when Lazar says “large” he means “massive.” The “largeness” of a star says nothing about its mass. In five or ten billion years, the sun will be as large as the orbit of Mars. A star’s size changes drastically during its lifetime. It’s pretty clear that what Lazar should be talking about here is the MASS of the star.

The next section is a little vague, but he SEEMS to be suggesting that his element 115, the alien fuel source, which doesn’t exist on the Earth, should be present in those solar systems that were more massive at their inception. The implication here is that a star system which condensed out of a more massive primordial cloud should have a greater abundance of heavier elements. This is quite incorrect.

Heavy elements – all elements heavier than iron – are not formed during the normal life cycles of stars. The only time when these nuclei are “cooked” is during the collapse and subsequent explosion of supernovae. The supernova explosion then spreads heavy elements throughout the galaxy. For this reason, the abundances of heavy elements in any particular star system depend NOT upon the properties of the current star, but on the properties of the nearby stars of the PREVIOUS GENERATION! Therefore, all of the star systems in a particular region of the galaxy will have essentially the same abundances of heavy elements, regardless of the mass of star. If element 115 is STABLE, as Lazar claims it to be, then it should be created in supernova explosions and it should exist EVERYWHERE!

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: play4keeps
he intensionally lied so they could use it against him to discredit

Are you trying to imply Lazar intentionally lied too? That's what Tom Mahood says on his website, that Lazar lied about the lights being saucers. The fact is the videotapes show lights, not saucers, and Mahood says they were lights (made by plasma) and Lazar knew it, that's the lie according to Mahood.

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

So let me be completely clear: The Wednesday night glowing orbs seen in the skies over Groom Lake by Lazar et al were NOT “craft”, they were plasmas generated by operation of a high powered proton accelerator dumping its beam into the atmosphere. And…..Lazar knew this.

If you want to focus on facts, all I can confirm is I've watched the video here and it shows lights, not saucers, and it even has an introduction by George Knapp saying the video is not very impressive, so if you've got one that is impressive and actually shows saucers, please post it/them.

Bob Lazar UFO at A51



You can hear Gene Huff describing some incredible maneuvers (which don't appear on the video, or at least it's not clear to me). Huff mentions a "step" maneuver which implied some sharp 90 degree angle movements and a sudden drop. Even if the video does show that, it's more evidence for Mahood's version of events being factual because unlike a flying "object" which has inertia so is resistant to sudden moves or sudden changes in direction, a plasma ball as described by Mahood is not an "object" so is not limited by the inertia which would affect an object, so a plasma ball generated the way described by physicist Tom Mahood can easily make sudden moves, sharp turns, etc as if it had no inertia, all according to our known laws of physics.

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: miragemansir/madame ... Can you fill me in on why you are uniquely qualified to say that his story is bull?

Why would anyone need to be uniquely qualified to comment? This is a public forum.

Why don't you tell us how Bob Lazar proved he worked on alien spaceships?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

It's not exactly a prediction but let's use it anyway.

Firstly let me say I do not think Lazar has the qualifications or knowledge to be considered anything other than a self taught dabbler in physics related subjects and I do think he has exaggerated some claims on those fronts.

That seems fairly obvious and your example fits that perfectly, I just don't believe it affects the core story.

The Morgan et al critiques all come from the "is Lazar a highly qualified physicist angle". It's fairly obvious he isn't, the question should be does what he is saying make any sense from the background of the core story. I could argue a couple of points in what you quoted if I wanted to defend Lazar - I mean maybe he was referring to a different universe where these super heavy elements were made. I don't know, I'm certainly not a physicist but for me that's not the issue anyway.

The issue is should Lazar be considered another Bennewitz.

Take the light and the particle beam accelerator. Arguments have been made that Lazar didn't even work there, or if he did he was a cleaner, or a low level tech. Yet he was also party to knowing exactly when and where a test of said equipment was to take place. Course he could have picked that up from scuttlebutt - or he could have been deliberately fed it. But he was either there or he wasn't - and seems he was - yet there is nothing concrete to confirm what he was doing.

I mean if we found out he was given an '___' laced croissant every morning and put on a movie set it probably wouldn't surprise me and is as good an explanation if he is in any way to be believed.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

Thoroughly recommend that link in relation to whether Lazar is in any way yo be believed.

Hilarious!

SNL Jon Lovitz explanation - Lets see... it was uhh... Saucer shaped plasma balls under intelligent control! Yeah, THATS the ticket!

ROTFL

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: KansasGirl and you would know. Another comedian

Kansas is a good distance from Nellis , Baby Doll

Im not sure how any of your reply has anything to do with any of my comment above.

But I do love terms of endearment, and the use of “Baby Doll” gets me feeling all squishy, so thanks for that anyway, Big Guy. 😘

For example -

Still frame from Bobs footage



Still frame from my footage



People are welcome to believe or disbelieve Bob Lazar as they see fit. Bob himself says he is not sure he would believe his story if the roles were reversed.

But lets leave false stories out of the discussion. i.e. -

1 Bob said he stole 500 lbs of E115 from Area 51.
Not true, he never said any such thing.

2 Bob tried to swindle Bigelow with Aerogel claiming it was E115.

Bob never did any such thing. If he had, Bigelow could have easily said so in the mystery wire interview. He did not do so.


Those 2 points were the purpose of this thread. Believe or disbelieve Bob as you see fit, but don't base it on false information.

originally posted by: chunder
Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

Thoroughly recommend that link in relation to whether Lazar is in any way yo be believed.

Yes, I also recommend it. The physicist who wrote that was initially very intrigued by Lazar's story as we probably all were. He's a bit of a UFO buff and has even been to Area 51. He has done a substantial amount of research, and has documented what he can, but he alludes to even more things he has been told in confidence that he hopes will come out someday from the sources he talked to in confidence.

Another person who's site people may want to check out goes by the pseudonym "Alien Scientist", which as that suggests he's not any debunker of aliens or alien stories. I would say if anything, he's a little too eager to believe sometimes, and I'm sure he would love to believe Lazar's story but even his research led him to have serious doubts, though he would still be receptive to more or better information.

originally posted by: chunder
The issue is should Lazar be considered another Bennewitz.

One can develop a number of hypotheses and I suppose I wouldn't rule that one out, but it's not at the top of my list of possibilities. Grant Cameron has an interesting twist on that, where he says the leak was supposed to come from John Lear, who he says isn't credible, so nobody would believe it, except the UFO religious fanatics or whatever you want to call the people who believe everything they are told, even by crazies like John Lear. But he says Knapp getting involved messed up the scheme because Knapp had a guest cancel, so he called in Lear's friend who used an alias at first, and Knapp had too much credibility, way more than Lear, so his getting involved messed up the psy-op. So that's another hypothesis, and there are other hypotheses. None of the credible hypotheses involve real alien space ships as far as I can tell. I have my own hypothesis which also involves John Lear, but it's not the same as Grant Cameron's hypothesis.

... yet there is nothing concrete to confirm what he was doing.

I agree, and I don't trust everything Eric Davis says, but he makes an interesting claim which if you sat down and had a beer with him you might get him to spill more details to convince you, like who he got the information from specifically and then maybe you could even talk to that person, like Lazar's female supervisor at Area 51.

Eric Davis: “Lazar Made Up His Entire Cockamamie Story”

“Also, a Roadrunner (who ran programs at Area-51 for Los Alamos) told me that he knew Lazar’s female supervisor at Area-51 and had her pull up his personnel file. Lazar worked as a radiation health monitor in the unsecured logistics contractor facility outside of Area-51, so he was never inside that site, and he never held security clearances because he didn’t need them to work in an unclassified area. Lazar made up his entire cockamamie story about the UFO that he saw in a building inside Area-51. He was never exposed to any classified information, facilities, or programs in his work area.”
...
Eric Davis: “I gave you the facts. Claims of harassed and threatened people is unsubstantiated hearsay. George is not lying. He just does not know my Roadrunner contact who lived in Las Vegas near Indian Springs and worked at Area-51, and knew Lazar’s supervisor there at the time all this unfolded.”
...
Eric Davis: “As if Lazar’s verifiably false claims deserve a public stage. It was impossible for Lazar to do Ph.D. level work at LANL because he only had a high school education with a C average grade, thus he had no education or training to be a scientist. He did not take high school physics. His job was radiation health monitor which did not require security clearances so he did not get access to Area-51 since his workstation was at the off-site logistics support facility which is unclassified. He’s also a convicted felon in the state of Nevada.

“In civil society having been charged with and convicted of a felony crime in a court of law by one’s peers directly impugns one’s credibility, truthfulness, and obedience to the law. These three items go to the heart of why some people fail to earn security clearances. Lazar never had security clearances to begin with because his EG&G job at the unclassified, physically disconnected Area-51 logistics support facility didn’t require security clearances.”

Some parts of what Eric Davis says have been verified by other researchers like Stanton Friedman, who confirmed Lazar's grades in high school were too poor to ever be admitted to MIT, where Lazar claims he went to school for his master's.

So Eric Davis makes a case that he has personal knowledge gained though in the know sources, who he hasn't named publicly, but I think this is a type of thing that he might tell you in confidence over some beers if you promised to just talk to his source off the record and not publish anything. The innocent bystanders who happen to have information about Lazar like Lazar's female supervisor at Area-51 and Davis's roadrunner contact probably don't want to be dragged into this in public and I can't say I blame them; they have nothing to gain, and to lose they could have a lot of very annoying people bothering them to ask them more questions.