If animals are sentient should we rethink how we treat them?

a reply to: anonentity

This seems relevant to the thread.



A formerly wild horse is reunited with his girlfriend after a couple years.

a reply to: anonentity

Here's something: Beatles vegetarian Paul McCartney, once asked about not eating animals. His answer dropped me back a few paces:

"Vegetarian diet? We eat nothing that has "eyes". Meat, fish, fowl....

Are they sentient if they can look at you as you eat them??

a reply to: anonentity

We should not own any nor train any.

As a person who has grown up with dogs and cats and a keen behavioral analyst of anything we share this planet with i can assure you animals are the definition of evil natured..

Drop you like hot potatoes if food is a option, selfish creatures.

I say let em fend for themselves......give them nothing but their freedom and space to live.

Animals eat other animals.

Am I missing something here?

a reply to: anonentity

In this day and age when we realistically have the capability to produce cloned meat free from animal steroids and other injected nasty's as well as being free from pests, disease etc I think we really do need to grow up and stop killing our less intelligent fellow inhabitants of the earth.

As we treat them so too will other's treat us if we are not careful as we venture into the depth's of space in ages to come or if they just visit our world (they would have a heart attack if they ate me, all that cholesterol don't you know).

I hold human life as more important however and until such facility's are churning out enough high quality protein to feed feed humanity both in terms of nutrition and in terms of taste then I don't think we can realistically move away from animal farming just yet.

However cultures change, we currently kill more human being's than are born many city's in the world and it is a cultural epidemic that is leading to the downfall of the so called developed world as this practice of Aborting humans in the womb is leading to an ever aging population and a severe paucity of children to support the aging population.

It is a problem of the individual putting there self well being and concerns in the short term above both there long term well being and the well being of society as a whole.

There are those that want the poor to be sterilized and killed off but they tend to be well to do yet somehow mystifyingly idiotic individuals that really should put into practice what they preach upon themselves.

Instead of society condoning abortion, worrying about animal's and letting our own civilization fall down around us we need to put stricter controls on abortion, perhaps even ban birth control for a period of time until our population level's recover and we have enough young people to sustain our society's.

But that will never happen because it would be political suicide with all the self empowered selfish prick's out there decrying such a move and making it almost political suicide for any government to do what actually has to be done to save our society.

The difference between today and Nero's Rome is it is the mass of the people fiddling as the world burns' down around them.

And Climate, bloody idiots we NEED greenhouse gas or we will end up on an already long overdue ice age which will be even more catastrophic for people than global warming, we CAN solve the problems of world food if we choose too it's just about political and scientific will and that is all there is to it.


Also while I do like vegans and would like to go vegan myself almost every time I bite into a delicious juicy moisture filled crispy onion topped burger on a bun or a lovely ham sandwich (pig's are more intelligent than dog's and a criminals best friend as they eat everything except the filling's which they can not digest and any pace makers or other things there dinner may have inside of them - even the hair get's eaten), remember that banning the farming of domesticated livestock will lead to those species becoming extinct.


On a side note yes we should treat them better, sentience makes them people of a sort, not human people but with personality's, personal trait's, habit's and likes and dislikes, sadly this is a cruel world and many of the species we farm are only around because we farm them there wild ancestors long having vanished, cows for example are only around because of this and in the wild there numbers were kept low as they were main food source of many predators besides humanity and so being food for something else is actually part of there life cycle, still when once get's up, open's the door and run's away from the abattoir as has Happened in the past showing both reasoning and intelligence enough to understand what was happening I find it heart warming when I hear the animal has been rehomed in an animal sanctuary were it will be allowed to live out it's day's or saddened when I read that it was running rampage in the local china shop so had to be shot.

We DO need to grow up as a species, we need to move away from using animal's as a food source and toward sustainable grown protein such as cultured beef steak's which are arguably better than the real thing because no pesticides on no field, no steroids or antibiotic's or other crap enter into that meat.

originally posted by: anonentity
I was cruising through the web and came across an interesting snippet regarding Idi Amin the late Dictator of Uganda, he had his army train Chimps to use machetes on his enemies, the fact that the Chimps are now training younger Chimps to use the weapon seems to have gone unnoticed. When you see that an Elephant can draw quite well there is a deeper and more meaningful conclusion to what seems to be more than just a novelty therein in for Human entertainment. Then I came across this Gem where some West African soldiers give a Chimp an AK 47 for a laugh until it backfires no pun intended.

This reminds me of my trip to Texas.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Humans can't stop treating each other like total garbage so this seems like a really tall order.

I do support arming the apes though. Better to get on their good side I reckon.

You obviously haven't seen how animals in nature treat each other...

a reply to: anonentity

First, that video is from Planet of the Apes. Its not real. Beyond that, some of my own observations tell me that the animal kingdom has a level of intelligence that is undervalued and under reported.

I live in a heavily forested area. I see the crows and vultures fight over carrion. I see the crows pick up the dead and drop it on roadways that vultures won't go on due to their wingspan.

I've seen herons use a piece of bread to fish.

I have dozens of forgotten examples of animals using tools, or using theory of mind to determine how to react. My dogs are a great study in this. They understand enough English that just listening to my spouse and I talk will have them respond.

Where i am at right now: i enjoy eating meat. I enjoy hunting. There is a connection with my humanity that lies in each. I enjoy meat craft, for the same reasons. So i try to not think about these things too much. I live with deer in my yard 24x7, and have come to realize that there is even something going on inside their tiny brains. So i just try to not think about it, as i honestly believe vegetarianism is a mostly ill fated lifestyle (i have as much health issues from veggies as anything else).

So i don't kill what i am not eating. Exceptions being poisonous snakes, scorpions, and yellow jackets. And houseflies....although I keep some spiders as pets in the house to help with them.

I believe some animals have a rudimentary intellect and emotions. I know any dog owner would agree.

I respect all animals. However, I am not going to anthropomorphize them. Certain domestic animals should certainly be treated with respect. I love dogs and have always treated them like a loved family member. However, at the end of the day they are still just a dog.

I lose no sleep eating cows, pigs, chickens, etc. However, I also believe they should be treated with respect and don't believe that animals should be abused. The only animals I got out of my way to torture and abuse are mosquitoes and yellow jackets which are the spawn of the devil. Even still, they serve a purpose and I can respect them as a needed creature in our food chain.

a reply to: Edumakated

I think you should reconsider the term "rudimentary", and instead maybe offer "different".

We compare intelligence to our own. Im not sure this is apt. We have a set of skills that are unique to begin with. And it created a worldview that is similarly unique. But an animal that is able to survive int he wild surely must have an intelligence that many humans lack, as we would often struggle without training.

Which speaks to there being a par level somewhere in there, where you can wash away skills and look at pure capability. But even with that...the only reason humans rate so high is because all measurements are done using a human as a measuring device. We don't measure intelligence in absolutes. We measure it relative to us, which causes us to miss out on so much that, while we may not find it useful given our skillset, still would be meaningful to the creature that possesses it.

In this vein, im a big fan of the Multiple Intelligences theory. This acknowledges that the measurement of intelligence is mostly subjective, but gives some objective parameters which to measure it within. Its all still a measurement scale worked out around human ability, but it at least gives some nod to notions of spatial intelligenice (which most raptors would wipe the floor with us in) or kinesthetic intelligence (which a dolphin would likely excel in).

a reply to: anonentity

Yes.

Thank you sookie.

Can only speak from a personal perspective but I do treat animals differently. Roast, grill, boil, barbecue, fry- depends on the animal.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Edumakated

I think you should reconsider the term "rudimentary", and instead maybe offer "different".

We compare intelligence to our own. Im not sure this is apt. We have a set of skills that are unique to begin with. And it created a worldview that is similarly unique. But an animal that is able to survive int he wild surely must have an intelligence that many humans lack, as we would often struggle without training.

Which speaks to there being a par level somewhere in there, where you can wash away skills and look at pure capability. But even with that...the only reason humans rate so high is because all measurements are done using a human as a measuring device. We don't measure intelligence in absolutes. We measure it relative to us, which causes us to miss out on so much that, while we may not find it useful given our skillset, still would be meaningful to the creature that possesses it.

In this vein, im a big fan of the Multiple Intelligences theory. This acknowledges that the measurement of intelligence is mostly subjective, but gives some objective parameters which to measure it within. Its all still a measurement scale worked out around human ability, but it at least gives some nod to notions of spatial intelligenice (which most raptors would wipe the floor with us in) or kinesthetic intelligence (which a dolphin would likely excel in).

While I believe there are different levels of intelligence among humans that can't necessarily be captured by IQ tests, I am not ready to say animals have the same level of intelligence. Sure, some animals can do some amazing things, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as humans. By in large, animals have certain innate abilities but that is far different from abstract problem solving imho.

Look at how we treat humans, yet you think we are capable of being better to animals?

Sure an individual might but the masses?

What do you think?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
This is about animals being tested.

This link was not tested.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: anonentity

That's a move clip.

Here.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
This is about animals being tested.

If humans are sentient should we rethink how we treat them?

No, have you Seen what they do to each other!
Ever sick and evil thing they can come up with.

and I wunder if aliens think.
"If humans are sentient should we rethink how we treat them?"

and if you can ask that!
I think you have never had a pet.
Humans should develop empathy.
and NOT just the idea of it.
you need to truly feel it!
and I can tel you it hurts.