Welcome to the 3rd World - Rolling Blackouts Continue

originally posted by: ketsuko
They are up to about 23% in Texas, but as I mentioned, they also use natural gas, and those froze over as well.

Again, how do other countries do it?
Do natural gas pipes froze in Russia, Finland or Denmark?

Is it so unlikely to have these temperatures at this time of year?

originally posted by: Peeple
There's no office or anyone handling any real-time on demand adjustments.

No need for real-time adjustments, weather can be predicted with a few days advance, so they could prepare for that extreme weather that was (I suppose, as I don't follow US weather reports) predicted.

Some of the energy sources powering the grid were knocked out by the inclement weather, most of which were facilities run by gas, coal or nuclear energy.

“Most of the plants that went offline during evening and morning today were fueled by one of those sources,” said Dan Woodfin, senior director of system operations at ERCOT.

That's what I have been saying, it sounds more like bad (or no) planning, the (usually) biggest power sources should be able to support bad weather.

Would have been built for those temperatures which they weren't because Texas.

Is it that rare to have cold weather in Texas during the Winter? I think I remember people complaining of if a few years ago.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: ketsuko
They are up to about 23% in Texas, but as I mentioned, they also use natural gas, and those froze over as well.

Again, how do other countries do it?
Do natural gas pipes froze in Russia, Finland or Denmark?

Is it so unlikely to have these temperatures at this time of year?

They do stuff, like prepare! not sit on asses thinking it wont happen.

Supposedly a cold snap every 10 years or so, as I understand..this one is pretty bad.

We are lucky, we have hydro electric, and natural gas..which flows no matter the outside temp.

originally posted by: ArMaP

Is it that rare to have cold weather in Texas during the Winter? I think I remember people complaining of if a few years ago.

Depends on what part. Dallas is typically 40 as a low average in the winter. A polar vortex is not something they plan for with low 20s in temperature.

a reply to: ArMaP

Not as rare as all that. I've been in Dallas during an ice storm. This one is just unusually deep and long-lasting. If the weather is going to get cold in Texas, they count on it not staying that way for very long.

originally posted by: vonclod

We are lucky, we have hydro electric, and natural gas..which flows no matter the outside temp.

Came back from Cancun and Portland closed their airport, so we had to spend the night in Denver that was at -11 F -24c which is crazy... I had 1/2+ inch of ice on my car too when I finally got to it in Portland yesterday.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Depends on what part. Dallas is typically 40 as a low average in the winter. A polar vortex is not something they plan for with low 20s in temperature.

Well, in school I was taught that we should "over design" (I don't know the real name in English, I hope everyone gets the idea) things, so something like even a simple lightbulb (the old ones with a filament) can stand an unexpected event. Designing power plants and distribution systems should follow the same simple principle.

a reply to: vonclod
It's the infrastructure.

Have you seen what freezing rain and high wind does to power lines?

That's why where I am, we have the major arteries buried. Sure, expensive to repair or inspect, but we're not risking freezing just trying to sleep through a night.

Edit: "Green" energy is just as useless as that bad energy if it can't get to the consumers.

Edit2: The irony isn't lost on me, how Puerto Rico had their entire infrastructure wiped out, politicians playing games with aid and lifes, and the same people panicking now, were like "too bad, so sad, not my problem"

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ArMaP

It's a matter of planning. How often does weather like that happen in Texas? Once every 40-ish years?

The electricity grid was designed to be in high demand during the summer, when Texans crank their air conditioning at home. But some of the energy sources that power the grid during the summer are offline during the winter. So when Texans stayed home during the storm on Sunday and demanded record amounts of electricity, the state’s energy system could not keep up.

Some of the energy sources powering the grid were knocked out by the inclement weather, most of which were facilities run by gas, coal or nuclear energy.

“Most of the plants that went offline during evening and morning today were fueled by one of those sources,” said Dan Woodfin, senior director of system operations at ERCOT.

Wind turbines, which provide a much smaller source of energy for the state’s power grid, were iced over and also out of commission.

TexasTribune
They were iced over because they weren't running because they aren't needed under normal circumstances.
So you could keep them running producing like 3 times above need for the once in 40 years times it might be needed but...
who'd be paying for that?

If they weren't running because they weren't needed, then why were they built? Seems pretty stupid to build something that won't be used. Let's see...a few birds get killed from turbine blades or people freeze to death. Like others have posted, other parts of the world using wind have weather similar if not more severe than this and they manage somehow.

originally posted by: ArMaP

Well, in school I was taught that we should "over design" (I don't know the real name in English, I hope everyone gets the idea) things, so something like even a simple lightbulb (the old ones with a filament) can stand an unexpected event. Designing power plants and distribution systems should follow the same simple principle.

Well cold places bury their pipes/wires below the freeze point, and special insulation is used and places are designed to be heated etc... I'm sure you over engineered your house in Portugal to withstand a hurricane right?

a reply to: ArMaP

It's especially not something you plan for when all the "experts" are telling you it's not happening again because of Climate Change.

So Texas is caught with their pants down when they should have known better just like Australia looked silly to be stuck with lots of desalination plants during flooding the likes of which they hadn't seen in decades.

a reply to: ArMaP

The truth is our entire country should have been on nuclear power a few decades ago.

Even though new nuclear plants would be entirely safe, the permitting process was designed so that no plant could ever be built again. The industry gave up on it.

Radical environmental extremists' lawsuits on top of the over-regulation and the onerous permitting process killed any chance we have of true eco-friendly power. We could have had cheap, clean energy many years ago. Our leaders know it, but they are terrified of the eco-warrior crowd and cave in to their lies.

100 years from now history will look back on how utterly stupid we were, for letting hysterical nut jobs rule our decisions.

Spot price for electricity in Texas today? $9,000/megawat t hour

Just for contrast, when it gets really hot in the summer, it usually peaks out around $100/megawatt hour.

I'm not looking forward to the electric bill this month.

Here in Michigan we have coal, nukes and working lights!!

a reply to: Hypntick

No. Energy prices are kWh are insane.

3rd world indeed, as this sounds more like bad planning or execution than a problem with the energy sources, as North European countries have very cold weather and none of these problems, as far as I know, and have very high levels of renewable energy sources of electricity. If the windmills do not freeze in Sweden why do they freeze in the US?

I came here to say that very thing. Will anyone answer it? I know Germany has a large chunk of green energy. Do they have this issue?

Like a poster stated below, Texas has it's own grid. ITS OWN GRID. That's your problem. Texas hubris got the best of it.

As for Mr.AMP question, it'll totally invalidate the thread. Keep bashing folks.

a reply to: Blaine91555

My mama prediction...100 years from now,if the Lord doesn't
come back first,we will probably be thrown into another ice
age.

a reply to: ketsuko

Texas’s experience highlights the perils of becoming overly reliant upon wind, solar and natural gas because these energy sources are not as reliable as coal or nuclear power during extreme weather conditions.

That's a dishonest take. Gas and Coal are still the 2 biggest producers of electricity. Wind is a drop in the bucket. This isn't green energies fault.

Texas decided to not share it's grid. We don't export power. So we don't import it either.

That's what's screwing us right now. They been chatting about the dangers/benefits for years.

Why does Texas have it's own grid?

a reply to: MarkOfTheV

Yes and no. Before the storm even hit and most of the other sources went down. Wind power had already failed thanks to the turbines freezing. Texas went into this with an unstable grid, and you should note that it's not like others of us have stable grids either. The Southwest Power Pool has used rolling blackouts which is how I'm affected; SPP services the Texas panhandle and other ports of NE Texas.

Again, the energy share of SPP has become heavily reliant on wind and natural gas. I imagine again grid instability is at least partially due to increased demand in the face of not enough diversity on the table.

a reply to: MarkOfTheV


After analysis I think what's going to be found is growth in power needs due population and industry nearly doubled in 30 years while grid capability lagged due profit taking and environmentalism slowing or shutting down capacity.

That is fault US Congress and Texas Legislature along with Public Utility Commission making or allowing bad law and regulation to go into effect. Some for profit enhancement, some for misguided environmental organizations, sometimes both.

I lived there during last cold snap and none of the problems occurred as they have past few days - grid was independent then also and problem has nothing to do with that subject.

a reply to: Phoenix

I can give you a name - T. Boone Pickens.