Well, This is Awkward...

originally posted by: BiffTannen

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Actually that article from the Alaska Watchman is probably misleading for people who don't actually read it.

Titles are pretty much always sensationalized and misleading. In this case - At least five Alaskans died and 111 suffered adverse reactions after COVID vaccines. That title is misleading and intentionally so.

I don't disagree that they are trying to have it both ways, but I suspect the vaccines in reality are less dangerous than eating peanuts for the first time.

Anyhow, here's the preexisting conditions for the first two listed from the VAERS reports. LINK

Age: 80
Current Illness: Aspiration pneumonia (dx on 12/16/2020)
Preexisting Conditions: Congestive heart failure, chronic respiratory failure, dementia, chronic mylomonocytic leukemia, chronic COPD, coronary artery disease, dysphagia.

 

Age: 77
Current Illness: Scrotal edema, aspiration pneumonia
Preexisting Conditions: Ischemic cardiomyopathy, congestive heart failure, hypertensive heart disease, type 2 diabetes with diabetic neuropathy, spinal stenosis with neurogenic claudication, chronic kidney disease, atrial fibrillation, COPD, venous insufficiency.

I get your point though and agree with it. The numbers can't be trusted.

As far as the vaccines go, it's a personal choice and no way do I ever take advice from anti-vaxxers. I've worked with a couple and they both had phobias and both nearly died from stupid decisions based on those phobias. Both are alive today because they were saved by the drugs and doctors they were so afraid of.

Like it or not, Covid is a killer. The numbers may be untrustworthy, but that does not change the fact that you can die from it. Even if you believe the sensationalized reporting against it, the vaccine is safe for most people. Fewer people will die as a result of the vaccines than would otherwise.

To be clear, I am an anti-vaxxer and I suffer from no phobias, nor have I ever needed a drug to pull me out of the fire. Lets be careful about painting anti-vaxxers with the same brush. Many can and do dispense good advice.

I was commenting on the two I mentioned.

I do stand by not taking medical advice from anti-vaxxers. I get my advice from people with medical degrees and the consensus of the medical community behind them. The handful of people in the medical field who are among the anti-vaxxers are outcasts for a reason.

Having said that, I do understand people hesitating in regards to something new.

In my case, out of an abundance of caution, I waited a month or so longer than I need to. With many millions now vaccinated and there being such a tiny number of adverse reactions, my fears were assuaged. In particular when seeing that those who had issues were at deaths' door already.

I will continue to get my medical advice from trusted doctors and not online from who knows what they are.

It's partly my age. I'm old enough to have seen how vaccines have changed things. I nearly died from Whooping Cough for instance and two kids in the same grade school did die from it that year. Any adult who goes near infants and toddlers that is not vaccinated is a potential killer.

Measles and Mumps hit me hard as a child. I still remember being put in a washtub full of ice water to bring my fever down when I had the Measles. The Mumps made me sterile. Nobody needs to go through that now.

There were still Polio victims in my neighborhood growing up. I remember standing in line at the grade school with my mother to get the Polio Vaccine.

IMO getting medical advice from unqualified people is an absurd proposition, and ignoring known quacks is just good critical thinking. Then you have the worst of the worst, those so-called doctors, who have a divinity degree or some such nonsense from one of the degree mills. The Internet is full of those fraud's and people selling worthless "natural" health products that are meaningless placebos. Colloidal silver anyone

originally posted by: McGinty
a reply to: Blaine91555

The problem is that those with an agenda polarise the debate; covid’s real or it’s a conspiracy to steal our freedoms; the vaccines gonna kill or it’s the only cure. Truth is that none of these things have ever been mutually exclusive.

The virus being real doesn’t stop tptb wanting to not let a good disaster go to waste, but equally the reality that there are unscrupulous and powerful entities preying upon us via the loopholes and dilemmas in our Swiss cheese of political ideologies doesn’t mean that every damn $hitty thing that happens to mankind is down to secret societies, corrupt institutions and megalomaniac millionaires and such a fake, a lie, not real.

Conflating all these things is lazy and only serves the mission of those exploiting bad situations, form millionaires and politicians wanting more of everything to the mamma’s basement keyboard jocks needing the worst case scenario to be true to justify their years of self imposed social distancing long before Covid.

As you say, it’s all about personal choice - it’s about weighing the risks. In this case the odds highly favour respecting the reality of the virus and timing your vaccination as late as possible so data on it can accumulate VS. the risk to you getting Covid, or missing your chance at the vaccine if supplies dwindle. It’s not complicated and unless someone’s privy to info unavailable to the public that suggests otherwise, then the rules of this game really are that simple.

Decisions need to respect the odds, not the irrational fear. The minute someone commits to a theory based on fear and without definitive supporting evidence, they commit to making bad decisions. I speak from experience - I’ve made many bad decisions based on fear. It’s a dilemma that never eases up.

Well said

I get my shot in a few hours. Drive-up convenience even. Just roll down the window, get a shot and then sit in a parking lot for twenty minutes. Easy peasy. If my arm falls off or I pass out I'll report back.

Alaska is already down to those over 50 with medical issues and essential workers over 50. Education workers also. I'm glad to be in a state where the mortality rate is lower and we are way ahead on vaccines.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Hope your vaccination went well and you're now feeling that much safer

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
5 Alaskans Died From Vaccine?

This is a wonderful view behind the curtain of just what a duplicitous bunch of idiots are running our nation's health departments and how manipulative these assholes are.

Note this:

The piece, which Facebook marked as missing context and potentially misleading, was based on data shared with the public via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, where providers and patients can report reactions. The VAERS site specifically warns against using the data to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to a reaction: “The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.”

Five Alaskans between the ages of 73 and 100 did die after they got at least one dose of vaccine.

All five had numerous pre-existing health conditions. Three deaths were specifically not linked to vaccinations, according to provider notes. Data for two other cases did not specify. None of the five cases included any information linking the death to the vaccine.

None of those deaths were caused by vaccine itself, according to Pollyanna Stewart, who coordinates the VAERS program for the state of Alaska.

Hol' Up! Haven't we spent the past year with government health officials telling us pre-existing conditions don't matter... any death with COVID is a death from COVID? But here now, as they attempt to shake their money maker experimental vaccine (that isn't even an actual vaccine), suddenly pre-existing conditions and age matter greatly?

Anyone who trusts these people has my deepest sympathies.

You do realize that anyone can report anything to the VAERS system and there isn't really a checks and balances on the validity to the reporting.

That's literally mentioned right in your post. Did you read your own post?

originally posted by: JusticeIsComing
You do realize that anyone can report anything to the VAERS system and there isn't really a checks and balances on the validity to the reporting.

That's literally mentioned right in your post. Did you read your own post?

And that differs from the COVID death reporting of last year how? Look, we get it, you trust your government. They've lied to you before, many, many times before... even about this very virus (remember being told without hesitation DO NOT buy a mask to wear just a few weeks before being told to immediately start wearing a mask?) but this time is different, isn't it? This time they feel your love and they're not lying to you because you believe in them and that's more powerful than them having betrayed your trust repeatedly through the relationship.

We get it, abusive relationships and Stockholm Syndrome are real bitches, ya?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JusticeIsComing
You do realize that anyone can report anything to the VAERS system and there isn't really a checks and balances on the validity to the reporting.

That's literally mentioned right in your post. Did you read your own post?

And that differs from the COVID death reporting of last year how? Look, we get it, you trust your government. They've lied to you before, many, many times before... even about this very virus (remember being told without hesitation DO NOT buy a mask to wear just a few weeks before being told to immediately start wearing a mask?) but this time is different, isn't it? This time they feel your love and they're not lying to you because you believe in them and that's more powerful than them having betrayed your trust repeatedly through the relationship.

We get it, abusive relationships and Stockholm Syndrome are real bitches, ya?

You.... didn't answer the question or address any of the points I made in my post. Instead made a strawman argument as well as ad hominem for good measure.

michelerosenthal.com...

Your entire OP was founded on something that may not even be accurate because anyone can report anything to the VAERS system regardless of truth. Do better.

a reply to: JusticeIsComing

No, I didn't create a strawman. My OP was comparing like to like... the fact that the official counts utterly ignored any pre-existing conditions in their crediting COVID with deaths. Nobody is denying that 5 Alaskans died shortly after receiving their first dose of the COVID shots, what's debated here is whether the vaccination played a role in those 5 deaths. The point of the OP is that the same asshats who are saying "these 5 died from pre-existing conditions and health complications, the vaccination had nothing to do with it!" are the same jackasses who were saying "pre-existing conditions don't matter if someone is in the hospital and has COVID, if they die we will list COVID as the cause of death and add them to the numbers we're claiming died from COVID."

It's comparing like to like and exposing the hypocrisy of the medical officials, politicians, and media. Learn to compare and contrast two points before you stumble clumsily into another embarrassing attempt to call someone else out for you own inability to grasp a concept.