Tube Amplifiers...???

Op might consider a tube integrated, if I was looking at used..this is where I browse. An integrated combines the pre and amp in one package..many are superb!
www.usaudiomart.com...

or just straight up amps
www.usaudiomart.com...

Here is an example of one that I would look at, will likely drive most speakers nicely. I owned a VT100(NICE AMP!), this is a step up from that.
www.usaudiomart.com...

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

A little more info on what you want to do would be nice???

Sorry, should have included in OP.

Use - Music / Hi-Fi (listening)

a reply to: Bigburgh

What in Sam hell are you building out there?

Well, if my plans work out how I'm hoping they will I am planning on building the ultimate (or close to it) low-wattage, high efficiency (sound reproduction wise), high performance, Hi-Fi system for music room listening.

Thanks to the good people here, I've now found some pretty darn good source material. Some of it I even had already and just didn't realize it.

I alluded to it in my previous thread, but I'm already pretty well versed in high wattage sound reinforcement systems having owned a company in the past who used to engineer and lease these setups to bands, orchestras, singers and such. I understand a good bit about noise and where it comes from, amplifiers (non-tube) and how they work, the different classifications, etc. I also understand a good bit around the construct of sound and acoustics. We were specialists in high quality audio at relatively high sound pressure levels. Frankly though, that was 'easy' stuff compared to what I would like to do now. (Sound Tech Audio was the name of my company back in the day).

My plan isn't really to "build" the components myself. I think that bridge has been crossed already, frankly. Trying to build a better speaker, or a better amp, is a noble cause, but this isn't my goal...with so much great, well thought out, gear already out there.

No, my challenge now is to build a Hi-Fi system and environment with sound so clear and crisp that it will give people a chubby (or just have a brain-melting orgasm altogether) with just a single Watt or two RMS.

Now, I'm not planning on limiting myself to amplifiers of just a watt or two, but this is the performance I want at those levels.

Imagine...(except without the crummy compressed format like the crummy .mp3)


Don't forget to turn it up...LOUD!

a reply to: vonclod

Great link, thanks!

Looks like there might be some fun candidates to play around with in there.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

6L6 GE tubes....Fenders, Marshalls...tubes produce a warmer sound.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
What do you think about tube amplifiers for audiophile type equipment?

Not sure what else to write, beyond the first sentence.

Do you have any you recommend (which cost less then $5,000 dollars)?

I agree with the Freedomslave there, but I don't think there is a need for a valve amp audio system for play back anymore for instance.... but then it's not so clear as to where you are coming from.

That's because almost all of our music is in a digital format now. If you play vinyl or tape on a good machine with tube amplification, you'll hear the difference.

Been there done that, but you miss the point I was making, I don't know if the OP is a musician or not, and certainly valve amps are great for sound, while the valves themselves just don't cut the mustard as far as reliability is concerned.

A static valve amp would be fine for some time, take it on the road though, is a different story, valves are just not rigid enough for the road...and EL34's cost a bomb, and once they turn blue...that's it.
So, it's really what the individual wants.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

A little more info on what you want to do would be nice???

Sorry, should have included in OP.

Use - Music / Hi-Fi (listening)

The same questions hold true then....

1. Speakers or cans?
2. Room size, shape, acoustics?
3. Digital, Analog or ideally both.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

A little more info on what you want to do would be nice???

Sorry, should have included in OP.

Use - Music / Hi-Fi (listening)

That’s okay, I understood the HI-FI part by the word “audiophile”, just wasn’t sure what kind of system you were after; separate amp, tuner type, separate EQ, all in one, etc....

Through the years, way back, I had 3 Pioneer SX amps a 450, 650 and a 980, the 650 and 980 I ran through a Marantz EQ and used JBL 3 way tower speakers and 3 way Cerwin Vega’s at one point. The sound was absolutely amazing although (the 450 did distort much quicker than the other two), they were clean, louder than poop and had an extremely warm sound. I wouldn’t hesitate to get another refurbished vintage Pioneer tuner/amp but would update the EQ and speakers to modern.

Have you thought about doing something like that?

Just the tuner and good speakers are a lot of sound, you don’t necessarily have to have a separate EQ although they’re nice for fine tuning. This setup would put you well below $5.k, I can’t imagine needing much more for a house. I’ve had friends that have had the separate this and that, thousands spent but honestly they weren’t much better if any better than my 980 with the JBL’s. Just a thought.

a reply to: mtnshredder

Definitely cool to see different approaches to the audiophile hobby. =)

When it comes to true 2 channel audio I have never been a fan of leveraging EQ's. In my opinion that's shaping the sound to what we as listeners want to hear vs what the artist intended. I know that isnt necessarily what everyone thinks but it works for me.

originally posted by: opethPA
a reply to: mtnshredder

Definitely cool to see different approaches to the audiophile hobby. =)

When it comes to true 2 channel audio I have never been a fan of leveraging EQ's. In my opinion that's shaping the sound to what we as listeners want to hear vs what the artist intended. I know that isnt necessarily what everyone thinks but it works for me.

For a fun system, no biggie with a bit of eq'ing, but you are correct in the purist world you would shy away from it, pretty much 90% of higher end gear with not have eq. Why, people might ask? it can mess with imaging, soundstage, can create phase shifts. Here is where it's all about the mix/engineering, if its done right, should sound pretty banging without any eq. In the end though, it's all up to the listener..I have a 5 band eq on the old McIntosh reciever in the bedroom, I do use it there, as it's not really a critical listen system.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: vonclod

Great link, thanks!

Looks like there might be some fun candidates to play around with in there.

If you are looking at low power amps, the 300b is a common favourite(Audio Note is famous for 300b amps), putting out roughly 8w pc class A, very romantic sounding, not known for good bottom end, but a well designed amp with good transformer can still be pleasing in the bass. I like a bit more power so I run 845 tubes..they put out 22 wpc class A..I saw my amp when browsing the integrated'S, Line Magnetic LM518 IA..Stereophile magazine class A rated amp, quite a few years in a row. Now, I will tell you, this is a Chinese amp, but next level build..this is an audiophile company..just do a goole image search for Line Magnetic.

Anyway, lots of stuff out there, not even scratching the surface here! You want to see substantial transformers on SET amps, my 14w amp(KR Audio) is about 85lbs, same with the LM. So look for a heavy amp

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: opethPA
a reply to: mtnshredder

Definitely cool to see different approaches to the audiophile hobby. =)

When it comes to true 2 channel audio I have never been a fan of leveraging EQ's. In my opinion that's shaping the sound to what we as listeners want to hear vs what the artist intended. I know that isnt necessarily what everyone thinks but it works for me.

For a fun system, no biggie with a bit of eq'ing, but you are correct in the purist world you would shy away from it, pretty much 90% of higher end gear with not have eq. Why, people might ask? it can mess with imaging, soundstage, can create phase shifts. Here is where it's all about the mix/engineering, if its done right, should sound pretty banging without any eq. In the end though, it's all up to the listener..I have a 5 band eq on the old McIntosh reciever in the bedroom, I do use it there, as it's not really a critical listen system.

EQ’S are good for fixing poorly mixed albums though and there’s a lot of bad mixes out there, especially earlier recordings. You can also run effects such as a BBE Sonic Maximizer or the likes, to fix phase alignment issues. I know lot of people don’t like BBE’s but I’ve had good success with them when used in the right application.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
What do you think about tube amplifiers for audiophile type equipment?

Not sure what else to write, beyond the first sentence.

Do you have any you recommend (which cost less then $5,000 dollars)?

I agree with the Freedomslave there, but I don't think there is a need for a valve amp audio system for play back anymore for instance.... but then it's not so clear as to where you are coming from.

That's because almost all of our music is in a digital format now. If you play vinyl or tape on a good machine with tube amplification, you'll hear the difference.

Been there done that, but you miss the point I was making, I don't know if the OP is a musician or not, and certainly valve amps are great for sound, while the valves themselves just don't cut the mustard as far as reliability is concerned.

A static valve amp would be fine for some time, take it on the road though, is a different story, valves are just not rigid enough for the road...and EL34's cost a bomb, and once they turn blue...that's it.
So, it's really what the individual wants.

We will have to disagree on that, I have tubes that are over 70 years old that are still good. Tubes can actually take quite a bit of handling. Not all will last of course, but most will. The JAN (joint Army-Navy) tubes are built for the military and are very sturdy. The blue aura you see in mostly power tubes is not a problem, it's just the result of electrons hitting the glass. If the plates turn red, that's bad. That's usually a sign of a part failure or incorrect bias setting causing the tube to draw more current than it should.

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: opethPA
a reply to: mtnshredder

Definitely cool to see different approaches to the audiophile hobby. =)

When it comes to true 2 channel audio I have never been a fan of leveraging EQ's. In my opinion that's shaping the sound to what we as listeners want to hear vs what the artist intended. I know that isnt necessarily what everyone thinks but it works for me.

For a fun system, no biggie with a bit of eq'ing, but you are correct in the purist world you would shy away from it, pretty much 90% of higher end gear with not have eq. Why, people might ask? it can mess with imaging, soundstage, can create phase shifts. Here is where it's all about the mix/engineering, if its done right, should sound pretty banging without any eq. In the end though, it's all up to the listener..I have a 5 band eq on the old McIntosh reciever in the bedroom, I do use it there, as it's not really a critical listen system.

EQ’S are good for fixing poorly mixed albums though and there’s a lot of bad mixes out there, especially earlier recordings. You can also run effects such as a BBE Sonic Maximizer or the likes, to fix phase alignment issues. I know lot of people don’t like BBE’s but I’ve had good success with them when used in the right application.

I agree! lots of recording can use a tweek. I have a cool unit called the Hughes AK100, designed by Hughes Aircraft..Howard Hughes company. Its a spacial effect through phase, can create some very trippy 3d effects, it, or an offshoot is used on some great albums..I think Qsound? Check out Roger Waters Amused To Death, to hear it. Fun to play with but I dont use in the main system.
www.latimes.com...

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
What do you think about tube amplifiers for audiophile type equipment?

Not sure what else to write, beyond the first sentence.

Do you have any you recommend (which cost less then $5,000 dollars)?

I agree with the Freedomslave there, but I don't think there is a need for a valve amp audio system for play back anymore for instance.... but then it's not so clear as to where you are coming from.

That's because almost all of our music is in a digital format now. If you play vinyl or tape on a good machine with tube amplification, you'll hear the difference.

Been there done that, but you miss the point I was making, I don't know if the OP is a musician or not, and certainly valve amps are great for sound, while the valves themselves just don't cut the mustard as far as reliability is concerned.

A static valve amp would be fine for some time, take it on the road though, is a different story, valves are just not rigid enough for the road...and EL34's cost a bomb, and once they turn blue...that's it.
So, it's really what the individual wants.

We will have to disagree on that, I have tubes that are over 70 years old that are still good. Tubes can actually take quite a bit of handling. Not all will last of course, but most will. The JAN (joint Army-Navy) tubes are built for the military and are very sturdy. The blue aura you see in mostly power tubes is not a problem, it's just the result of electrons hitting the glass. If the plates turn red, that's bad. That's usually a sign of a part failure or incorrect bias setting causing the tube to draw more current than it should.

Agreed! I my best tubes are 40, 50, 60 years old, my 211 triodes(simular to 845)s and mercury rectifiers are WWII era.
It's true though, you see far less NOS power tubes..they get run the hardest. Some new production are getting pretty good,

I was going to ask, your amp, going tube, or ss rectification?

a reply to: vonclod

Tube, old school. It won't be high-power so I don't have to worry about sag but I wouldn't mind a bit of that in a guitar amp. I'm primarily a bass player though so I don't mind some solid state power with the tube pre-amp for my rig.

originally posted by: HalWesten
a reply to: vonclod

Tube, old school. It won't be high-power so I don't have to worry about sag but I wouldn't mind a bit of that in a guitar amp. I'm primarily a bass player though so I don't mind some solid state power with the tube pre-amp for my rig.

The sag can be part of the magic! it sure takes a lot of glass to power a bass rig!

I have a unit that uses to big triodes like 805, 845, 211, as a recitifier, you just plug the umbilical into your 5ar4, or 6x5 socket..makes everything bigger scale..or so my ears tell me.

a reply to: opethPA

Man, you guys ask more questions than you answer!! Sheesh!

Speakers? - TBD (likely some kind of a Klipsch or variant)

Cans? - The usual suspects - Sennheiser or the industry studio standard Sony 7605's

Room size? - TBD, it will be a space inside of another space, likely 12 x 17 or so (maybe larger)

Room shape? - TBD, likely trapezoidal (narrow at the front, wider 2/3rds back and tapering back from there). Sloped ceiling.

Acoustics? - Again, TBD, but no hard surfaces, acoustic deadening in corners, baffles strategically placed in front and rear 1/3rds.

Digital vs. Analog? - Both. Equipment space outside listening room, able to switch between both (source and system).

Sigh...anything else?

FCD, you'd be smart to hire someone to check out your room acoustically and make recommendations. There are so many factors that I'm sure you're aware of that few people could put together right, it would be worth your time and money. Hifi is much, much different from instrument amplification. I couldn't begin to tell you where to start on a system like you're considering because it such a different world. The amp concepts are similar but the rest, that's where you need a pro in that field.

Depends on what it's for.

If you're going to record an album and have it professionally done, don't even bother. They're going to produce the # out of your tracks anyway. I can make a midi file sound pretty darn close to a real guitar with just the basic plugins that come with the DAW, to the point where only the guy with 40 years of studio experience could tell. Any producer worth his salt has some third party plugins that blow Pro Tools or Logic base plugins out of the water. Spend that money on marketing.

If it's just for noodling around, don't even bother. Digital sampling is good enough where you won't even know the difference anymore.

If you're a gigging musician, it's probably less costly to get a solid state rig as your amps will probably get banged around quite a bit.

I'd say the only case where it would be a priority to get a tube amp would be if you were a collector. But again, tubes ain't cheap, and they're hard to find. They ain't plug n play, either. Every tube has it's own unique sound.