Tube Amplifiers...???

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
What do you think about tube amplifiers for audiophile type equipment?

Not sure what else to write, beyond the first sentence.

Do you have any you recommend (which cost less then $5,000 dollars)?

I agree with the Freedomslave there, but I don't think there is a need for a valve amp audio system for play back anymore for instance.... but then it's not so clear as to where you are coming from.

That's because almost all of our music is in a digital format now. If you play vinyl or tape on a good machine with tube amplification, you'll hear the difference.

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

a reply to: vonclod

Agreed on harmonics! Tubes are the best! I also have a distortion pedal or 5. But if I was playing my guitar, with some reverb too. Had my Spider for many years now, plug in the computer and Blamo! New musical specs.

Trying to mix Johny Cash and Willie Nelson giving me the Bird at the moment on the Line 6 program. Also trying to find a touch of pineapple.... hehehe😆
Oh boy this is going to be a good night.... ROLL REEL!!

What FCD is asking for is a sound system for his ears... or be able to scream as loud as he wants without waking up his neighbors.

I have a hard time trying to explain a sound someone is looking for when we are all different. And that's a good thing

a reply to: DaCook

I disagree with that, respectfully. There’s a reason we have recording software programs that emulate tube amps and pre amps, especially on vocal tracks. There’s a warmth in analog recording w/tube amps vs digital recording w/solid state equip that’s extremely difficult to replace and the engineers that do digital recording, which is pretty much all of them today, use tube emulation software or real tube rack gear in order to warm the track and replicate that sound.

I’ve been recording for 40+ yrs, analog, tube amps, solid state and digital, there is a difference.

Would the average joe notice a difference? Probably not.

Not sure how an expert engineer could miss a complete channel missing yet hear the neighbors washing machine???
Maybe his ears are blown?

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I got a couple of Marshal stacks here. 70's...

If i recall correctly you delved into the deep cut basement of recording tech..

I have played old amplifiers and current Spider amps connected the computer...


What in Sam hell are you building out there?

Let us also remember, if you crank up the volume on the output, you are FUUZZINGLY Distorting the receiving output.

Have you ever been off the range long enough to hear that ONE car blasting the fuzzy bass? Loud is not equal to quality of sound.

You will not get a good sound. And I was born hard of hearing then went to many Van Halen, Megadeth, Metallica, Garth Brooks, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, God Schmacked concerts... maybe enya...

Now that I'M absolutely positive I didn't answer your question. Commence...

I prefer a head set

Talking about distortion..this is where tubes excel, the distortion from a tube amp is even order harmonics, not unpleasing to the ear when driven. SS on the other hand, you get odd order harmonics..that is not pleasant.

Thats just a little technical tidbit, a well designed amp of either persuasion, running within it's capabilities will be nice, more than a few ss amp on my bucket list..Krell, and Pass Labs for instance.

I hadn't gotten to your post yet when I replied, we're on the same wave length. Or frequency level, as it were.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

a reply to: HalWesten

Not to be a downer and my apologies. After “46 years” as a musician you have some degree of sensinural hearing loss. Just how life works. The difference between a Stradivarius and a fiddle is in the resonant frequencies (overtones). Those are above 8k in frequency. The first to go. Have your hearing tested and then tell me I am wrong.

Btw... I still have a bit of the bug with a 10k home theater sound system with 4 subwoofers in my man’s room. Is it that much better than the 1.5 k system in my living room? Answer: they both sound damn good.

Denny

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

The Russian Sovtek tubes are popular and good also.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

Nice!!! I have some KT88s waiting for a stereo I'm building from scratch. After hearing my friend's Pioneer when I got it done I have to have a tube stereo now. I found some NOS RCA JAN 5751s I'm going to use for the preamp tubes and some clear-top 12AU7s so the sound should be crystal clear.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: vonclod

Agreed on harmonics! Tubes are the best! I also have a distortion pedal or 5. But if I was playing my guitar, with some reverb too. Had my Spider for many years now, plug in the computer and Blamo! New musical specs.

Trying to mix Johny Cash and Willie Nelson giving me the Bird at the moment on the Line 6 program. Also trying to find a touch of pineapple.... hehehe😆
Oh boy this is going to be a good night.... ROLL REEL!!

What FCD is asking for is a sound system for his ears... or be able to scream as loud as he wants without waking up his neighbors.

I have a hard time trying to explain a sound someone is looking for when we are all different. And that's a good thing

It's all so subjective..what sounds good to one. I think FCD is looking for nuance, and resolution..not sure about volume levels. Me, I can hit 90db and it's plenty loud, room couldn't take much more..the room! a whole other thing!

I had one of those spider combo's, the one you could record into, was a fun little amp, but not tubes. I like Line 6 stuff, I presently use one of their pedalboards, often I just run that into some powered monitors, so I don't wake the dead.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

Nice!!! I have some KT88s waiting for a stereo I'm building from scratch. After hearing my friend's Pioneer when I got it done I have to have a tube stereo now. I found some NOS RCA JAN 5751s I'm going to use for the preamp tubes and some clear-top 12AU7s so the sound should be crystal clear.

I use 12au7’s in my clean amps and run ax7’s for the dirt w/6550’s. I do like the KT88’s over the EL34’s though. Talking guitar amps.

originally posted by: DaCook
a reply to: HalWesten

Not to be a downer and my apologies. After “46 years” as a musician you have some degree of sensinural hearing loss. Just how life works. The difference between a Stradivarius and a fiddle is in the resonant frequencies (overtones). Those are above 8k in frequency. The first to go. Have your hearing tested and then tell me I am wrong.

Btw... I still have a bit of the bug with a 10k home theater sound system with 4 subwoofers in my man’s room. Is it that much better than the 1.5 k system in my living room? Answer: they both sound damn good.

No, you're right, I'm 58 and my ears aren't as good as they were when I was younger. About fifteen years ago both of my eardrums burst the same day from a very bad sinus infection. It took about a year to get my normal hearing back and the extreme highs are gone. But I have had my hearing tested, it's still good enough to recognize audio quality when I hear it. I was blessed with exceptional hearing and color sensitivity, tested as well above average when I was younger.

I will disagree with you about one thing though, overtones and harmonics are present across the frequency range, they're not just above 8k.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Really good 'A class' amplifiers are at such a high level of fidelity that the human ear cannot discern one type from the other.

However, it is not at this peak of performance where valve amplifiers stand out. It is where a valve or solid state amplifier is driven to its 'clipping' amplitude, and the way that colors the sound.

When a valve amplifier reaches its maximum output (equivalent to the supply voltage) the output creates additional octave harmonics relative to the absolute peak of the driving waveform, and inhibits the overall aggregate waveform so as to keep everything under that peak threshold (this is due to the 'compressive' nature of valve amplification). The resultant waveform begins to resemble a sawtooth or triangular shape.

In most solid state amplifiers, the portions of the waveform that exceeds the supply rail voltage is simply cut off, chopping the top off the waveform and making it look more like a square wave. This generates frequencies that are not even multiples of the input waveform but are closer to 1/3 rd of the waveform fundamental frequency. These additional eigenharmonics are not usually an even multiple of the input waveform and so are often perceived as dissonant.

In summary, valve amplifiers produce more musically pleasant distortion.

Valve amplifiers also usually have less peak power output and are more 'compressive' in the way they amplify.

For some clarification, when I speak about 'compressiveness' I am referring to the way an amplifier will amplify small amplitudes with greater efficiency than large amplitudes. Essentially the loudest sounds don't amplify as well. Usually the amplifier has an even gain for all lower amplitudes.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

Nice!!! I have some KT88s waiting for a stereo I'm building from scratch. After hearing my friend's Pioneer when I got it done I have to have a tube stereo now. I found some NOS RCA JAN 5751s I'm going to use for the preamp tubes and some clear-top 12AU7s so the sound should be crystal clear.

I would love to be able to build my own!
KT88, or 6550 are good tubes, nice bottom end. One day I'd like to try a kt 120, or 150 amp, lots of power there, if the transformer is up to it.

Its a nice thing, there are still loads of NOS small signal/preamp tubes, 5751 are a nice alternative to 12ax7! I do like to tube roll a bit. NOS power tubes are getting quite expensive though.

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

Nice!!! I have some KT88s waiting for a stereo I'm building from scratch. After hearing my friend's Pioneer when I got it done I have to have a tube stereo now. I found some NOS RCA JAN 5751s I'm going to use for the preamp tubes and some clear-top 12AU7s so the sound should be crystal clear.

I use 12au7’s in my clean amps and run ax7’s for the dirt w/6550’s. I do like the KT88’s over the EL34’s though. Talking guitar amps.

In home audio, I think the el34 is very nice in the mids, a bit less so in the extremes either way. I have a couple of el34 integrated amps, very nice, smooth, but just a tad rolled off the top..not necessarily a bad thing. I do like KT88 for balance, better bottom and top..all subjective though, oh, more power too..

Most folks begin their tube journey with a Dynaco Stereo 70 - I did.

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

The Russian Sovtek tubes are popular and good also.

They do make some decent tubes, I would generally take Russian, over Chinese..but the Chines have upped their game, in this specialty market. For new tubes, I like Genalex, especially their 12au7, nice thick glass!

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Most folks begin their tube journey with a Dynaco Stereo 70 - I did.

Yep, one of those, some AR3s and a pass3 pre

All this talk has got me thinking ..speaker swap tonight, I'm such a nerd!!

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For a home stereo system or for live performance/playing?

For the latter, Orange makes pretty good tubes.

You mean Orange tube amps? Orange doesn't make tubes.

Ha, yes, they are probably JJ or Electro Harmonics.

I have a one SET amp that uses their own proprietary tubes, one of the few making their own. Check out KR Audio..tube I run is 842 VHD

The Russian Sovtek tubes are popular and good also.

They do make some decent tubes, I would generally take Russian, over Chinese..but the Chines have upped their game, in this specialty market. For new tubes, I like Genalex, especially their 12au7, nice thick glass!

Noted on the Genalex👍Thx for that info.