How do mutations code sequence to symbols?

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

Speciation IS evolution.

Speciation:

Speciation is an evolutionary process by which a new species comes into being. A species is a group of organisms that can reproduce with one another to produce fertile offspring and is reproductively isolated from other organisms.

There's so many definitions of species, you're just hiding in semantics. Mice remain mice, fruit flies remain fruit flies, viruses remain viruses, and so on. Theres no examples of evolution happening. Organisms can adapt, but they can't evolve into something else. That's what the data insists upon.

a reply to: cooperton

That's the definition of speciation. It's very straight forward and unambiguous. You can deny it, ignore it, do anything you want. But that's what evolution is: SPECIATION. It's been proven in the lab; the whole science world understands how it works. It's only you and the idiot cult you belong to who made up your crackpot "science".

P.S. You still haven't linked a peer-reviewed science paper or a textbook which defines evolution as a mouse turning into a dog or a virus turning into a mouse. When you find one, let us know.

originally posted by: Phantom423
But that's what evolution is: SPECIATION.

Wishful thinking. just because two populations of the same organism adapt to a different setting does not mean they are evolving. These adaptations are reversible as shown through epigenetics. You're grasping at straws because you have no real example of a population of organisms changing into another organism. You show an example of how a population of viruses begins to prefer a particular host over the other... the fact that this is the best example of evolution you can find shows how absolutely lacking the lab data is regarding a population of organisms actually evolving into something else.

It's only you and the idiot cult you belong to who made up your crackpot "science".

You're just a rotten person. I blame your belief in evolution.

a reply to: cooperton

Wishful thinking. just because two populations of the same organism adapt to a different setting does not mean they are evolving. These adaptations are reversible as shown through epigenetics. You're grasping at straws because you have no real example of a population of organisms changing into another organism. You show an example of how a population of viruses begins to prefer a particular host over the other... the fact that this is the best example of evolution you can find shows how absolutely lacking the lab data is regarding a population of organisms actually evolving into something else.

Cite a peer-reviewed paper or biology textbook which endorses your description. I dare you.

P.S. Don't forget to write the authors of that paper a letter. I'm sure they'll request a consultation - and a psychiatrist.

a reply to: cooperton

Speciation is an evolutionary process by which a new species comes into being. A species is a group of organisms that can reproduce with one another to produce fertile offspring and is reproductively isolated from other organisms.

a reply to: Phantom423

Still raving about some make believe cult I see. i bet you don't
believe in Sasquatch either Science is afraid to admit it doesn't
know squat about the world. And much less is willing to admit it's
in error. Despite papers and page after page of absolute conveni ent
lies. Troy Ur the giant squid giants Jesus UFos bigfoot you people need
your heads examined. You can't explain the information in DNA Simple
Simon. Proof in your face of God.

a reply to: Randyvine

Yes, I believe in Sasquatch. After all, he was on the boat!!

a reply to: cooperton

It's actually a very accurate description.

Whether or not it is an accurate description is irrelevant. The point is that a biochemical process is not a 'code' in the same way that a computer program or Morse code.

It is an analogy NOT an identity.

Failing to distinguish between 'the map' and 'the territory' means that you can never appreciate the actuality of the territory. Being intimately familiar with a 3D tabletop representation of the Grand Canyon (no matter how accurate) IS NOT the same as experiencing the Grand Canyon in person.

Gravity is repeatable in a lab, and has remained consistent throughout known history.

Gravity is actually different everywhere on the planet.

Evolution has never been observed in a lab.

That is simply not true. And we are very clearly observing evolution in progress in the biggest 'lab' available to us (the entire planet) for the 18 months or so. The Covid-19 virus evolved to affect humans and did so, and many variants have evolved over just the last 18 months, some that are radically more infectious and thus more dangerous.

No population of organisms has ever evolved into something else, despite over 100 years of trying with artificial selection.

Your definition of 'something else' has to be carefully chosen to exclude the many examples of evolution we have observed. Something that 'evolved into something else' by YOUR definition of 'something else' would actually disprove evolution.

Wolves evolved into dogs by 'natural selection'. Dogs have evolved into Saint Bernards and Poodles and Chihuahuas by 'artificial selection'. They haven't 'speciated' as far as I know - but that is a result of the definition that is used - its (presumably) genetically possible to cross a Saint Bernard with a Chihuahua, but it is very unlikely that a Chihuahua would mate with a Saint Bernard. These are examples of populations of organisms evolving into 'something else'. Clearly a Saint Bernard is 'something else' other than a poodle.

There are many examples of observed evolution within human time frames. The Covid-19 virus has evolved in full sight over the last 18 months and several very deadly 'variants' have evolved. But no, it hasn't magically changed into a chicken.

Gravity and evolution are opposites... Gravity is demonstrable in a lab, evolution is not.

Really? You can create gravity in a lab? You are right they really are opposite - we cannot create life in the lab (yet). Far out!

Evolution is absolutely demonstrable in a lab, and just like gravity you don't need a lab to demonstrate it.

originally posted by: Randyvine

Science is afraid to admit it doesn't know squat about the world. And much less is willing to admit it's
in error.

I don't normally respond to trolls, but anybody who might read this might need to know that this is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of how science operates.

Science is science BECAUSE it admits it doesn't know squat about the world and wants to improve its understanding.

The entire point of 'the Scientific Method' is to identify errors and work to correct them.

a reply to: rnaa

I’ve given up in this thread and trying to discuss with the many of the intelligent designers - like you posted, they don’t understand what science is or what it does. They see science as a belief system, much like their religions. When, as you point out, it’s a set of processes for evaluating the truth behind an observation.

Science welcomes challenge and disagreements; it’s how we get to as close to the truth as possible. Which is why it appears to be wrong sometimes.

That truth, we may not like, or it may change as our technological and knowledge advances. Which is what they cannot grasp.

originally posted by: noonebutme
That truth, we may not like, or it may change as our technological and knowledge advances. Which is what they cannot grasp.

Yeah this is why I was trying to show you guys how soft tissue is found in dinosaur bones and it is carbon dated to less than 40,000 years old. It is new developing science that proves the evolutionary timeline is a fairy tale. This is where evolutionist's belief comes in and refuses empirical data because it conflicts with their faith. Ironic eh?

originally posted by: rnaa


Whether or not it is an accurate description is irrelevant. The point is that a biochemical process is not a 'code' in the same way that a computer program or Morse code.

It is an analogy NOT an identity.

I think you're trying to make it seem less intelligent than it is. The computer code is a quaternary coding system that uses specific sequences to code for hardware functions (proteins, enzymes, etc). It is very much so an organic coding system.

Gravity is repeatable in a lab, and has remained consistent throughout known history.

Gravity is actually different everywhere on the planet.

Yes according to mathematical predictability. It is understood and established in actual observable evidence. Evolution has never been observed. Populations of organisms can have reversible adaptions, but they never evolve.

That is simply not true. And we are very clearly observing evolution in progress in the biggest 'lab' available to us (the entire planet) for the 18 months or so. The Covid-19 virus evolved to affect humans and did so, and many variants have evolved over just the last 18 months, some that are radically more infectious and thus more dangerous.

Covid-19 is still covid-19. No matter how many natural allele drifts may occur, it is still covid-19. These attributes are reversible, as proven by the experiment that showed that antibiotic resistance is very quickly reversible due to it being a reversible epigenetic alteration

source

Your definition of 'something else' has to be carefully chosen to exclude the many examples of evolution we have observed. Something that 'evolved into something else' by YOUR definition of 'something else' would actually disprove evolution.

Wolves evolved into dogs by 'natural selection'. Dogs have evolved into Saint Bernards and Poodles and Chihuahuas by 'artificial selection'. They haven't 'speciated' as far as I know - but that is a result of the definition that is used - its (presumably) genetically possible to cross a Saint Bernard with a Chihuahua, but it is very unlikely that a Chihuahua would mate with a Saint Bernard. These are examples of populations of organisms evolving into 'something else'. Clearly a Saint Bernard is 'something else' other than a poodle.

Humans also have a wide variety of phenotypic features, but we all are still human. No human is more evolved than another, we have simply adapted to our climate. But never will a human evolve into something that is not human...

Really? You can create gravity in a lab?

I said demonstrable in a lab, not creatable. Look up the definition of demonstrable, I think it's the perfect word for exactly what I meant.

Evolution is absolutely demonstrable in a lab, and just like gravity you don't need a lab to demonstrate it.

Viruses remain viruses, mice remain mice, humans remain humans, fruit flies remain fruit flies, that's what the lab data shows. Organisms cannot change over time into another organism. Although it's hard to prove a negative, this is about as close as it gets to demonstrating organisms cannot evolve.

a reply to: cooperton

Evolution has never been observed. Populations of organisms can have reversible adaptions, but they never evolve.

Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Prove that this paper doesn't demonstrate evolution in the lab.

originally posted by: Phantom423

Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Prove that this paper doesn't demonstrate evolution in the lab.

Because its still a virus. In order for the theory of evolution to have any validity whatsoever it needs to be proven that an organism can change into something else over time. The paper you showed only proves that a population of viruses can adapt to prefer a particular host. As is shown by epigenetic inheritance, this sort of adaptation is reversible which means it is not evolution.

a reply to: cooperton

In order for the theory of evolution to have any validity whatsoever it needs to be proven that an organism can change into something else over time.

Cite a biology textbook that says a virus turns into a dog and a cat turns into a sheep.

You're such a liar. It doesn't exist, because that's not what evolutionary biology says.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

In order for the theory of evolution to have any validity whatsoever it needs to be proven that an organism can change into something else over time.

Cite a biology textbook that says a virus turns into a dog and a cat turns into a sheep.

You're such a liar. It doesn't exist, because that's not what evolutionary biology says.

It says over billions of years a microbe gradually turned into a human. Lol it's so absurd even typing it. Theres no data to prove that organisms can change outside of what they are. My great great x10000000000 great grandfather is not a microbe

a reply to: cooperton

What exactly is "It"? Where's the textbook or research paper.

It says over billions of years a microbe gradually turned into a human

a reply to: rnaa

I don't normally respond to trolls, but anybody who might read this might need to know that this is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of how science operates.

Science is science BECAUSE it admits it doesn't know squat about the world and wants to improve its understanding.

The entire point of 'the Scientific Method' is to identify errors and work to correct them.
edit on 11/2/2021 by rnaa because: (no reason given)

It's good you don't respond to trolls. Normally! Obviously I do
by trolling back. But enough about Phantom.

originally posted by: Randyvine

It's good you don't respond to trolls. Normally! Obviously I do
by trolling back. But enough about Phantom.

Phantom only has trolling and insult left in her arsenal. Her other most favorite tactic is to go on a semantic tangent when she is wrong (point in case is her last post).

a reply to: cooperton

Only an entity that has a deep hatred for mankind would seek to
dispose our creation and reason for existence to something less
honorable. Less dignified. Everything you break down in this world
the Bible is there providing perfect reason why things are the way
they are. Satan hates mankind and the world reflects that hate and
calls it knowledge. Very sad for people like Phantom. They focus the
scope from the wrong end. Our job is to help them see that. If possible.

originally posted by: Randyvine
a reply to: cooperton

Only an entity that has a deep hatred for mankind would seek to
dispose our creation and reason for existence to something less
honorable. Less dignified. Everything you break down in this world
the Bible is there providing perfect reason why things are the way
they are. Satan hates mankind and the world reflects that hate and
calls it knowledge. Very sad for people like Phantom. They focus the
scope from the wrong end. Our job is to help them see that. If possible.

Yeah I really do hope for her and the others. We are living in an intelligible construct that perpetuates according to intelligible laws, and we ourselves are intelligent creatures. That cannot happen without an Intelligent Designer.