Travis Walton interviewed on Joe Rogan Experience

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

That point being, he didn't mention anything about large eyes 19 days later when freshly interviewed. Large eyes would have captured his attention because that's where humans focus most of their energy when looking at another being. Plus, he describes the smaller details of being hairless and the skin tone which tells people he was observing them. How do you mention a relatively small detail like hairless and casually forget large eyes?

As Mirageman helpfully pointed out above, Travis had initially more or less described humans during 1975-76 as the primary aliens (the secondary 'blonds' were a constant) before they magically turned into bug-eyed beings in 1977. It's a strange and rather overt change, but WHY?

Had he seen pre-release images of Spielberg's aliens that year? Did he suspect it would be the huge blockbuster that it was (especially after Spielberg's success with 'Jaws' in 1975, combined with the mass global coverage of Walton's own story that year)? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if this direct question has been put to Walton, and it's pretty important. He's still an ATS member, so perhaps send a PM? (JOKE!)

As MM rightfully concludes, we have ZERO evidence of an alien abduction, although the notion of a Military Black Ops Abduction (or 'rescue' after accidental injury) is a tantalising if unlikely scenario. And yet the Walton story remains fascinating because of the sheer scope, intrigue, scandal and uniqueness, whatever the absolute truth may be. You know, they could even make a movie about it... Oh, wait...

PS: Can you even imagine what a rebooted modern version of 'Fire In The Sky' (1993) would look like? Just add a Tic-Tac, a whiney cameo by Jeremy Corbell as an ultra-beardy alien, and the entire TTSA crew as the blonds in blue jumpsuits screaming that they really are a "THREAT!"

originally posted by: play4keeps
Having worked on some "non-human" components myself, I get all the more worked up as I enter later age.

I'm sure you have.

Story backed by others at the job site. He obviously least seems that way the UFO took him on a journey. Rest of it, maybe a dream state? Its possible he slept through the whole thing and woke up in the road later. And then his mind created a story to fill the empty void?

It’s an interesting story nevertheless, the human looking people and the small child beings. The question next is what can we take from it. Is there a friendly relationship? Are they humans from here, hiding away from normal society? Another space there is many planets with people that look like us? That could be messy if they decide to remove us?

Are they just clones of people on earth "died and alive? Humans appear onboard well obviously they think we are more than just ants, and silly monkeys, there trying to mimic who we are least physically? Worse case scenario there creating a super human race to takeover, lord jesus!

This is the thing, put any one of us into a scenario in 1975, where either your buddies play a practical joke on you, or some mysterious person pays you $2-3,000 to go run off into the woods for days and make up a story that might make you look stupid or rip your life apart. Would you do it? Probably not, but it’s possible you’ll take the cash if you need it.

Fast forward nearly 50 years.

If you went along for that prank, or took that dirty embarrassing money, would you turn up for the previous 50 years and carry that story on, for s**ts and giggles or to justify the $2-3,000?

The answer is no. So something happened.

a reply to: firesnake

So, you're declaring that because he hasn't put his hands up and said he made it up, its true?

How about him not having the stones to do just that? "ive been lying the last 50 years folks, sorry" is one helluva hard thing to do

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Did Travis actually watch 'The UFO Incident' (1975) a fortnight before? We don't know. But would he take the risk of describing something so similar so soon after transmission... unless of course he DID witness something akin to the Hills' aliens (1961), but cashed in on the typical Greys later. Spielberg's chief alien in 1977's 'Close Encounters' had a similar albeit far slimmer appearance, also benefiting from a bigger budget! Otherwise, I cannot think of a TV/Movie alien that may have encouraged Travis to change his description before Whitley Strieber's 'genre-defining' Greys hit the public arena in the late-80s.

The visual evolution of the "greys" is obviously a creative one starting (at least) from H G Wells. Various costume and prop designers, graphic artists and writers have participated in that process - and of course because of that it is well documented, as are numerous other fictional alien forms. The Hills do seem to be more driven by the visualisations of TV and comics, low production values, shiny suits. Walton was/is perhaps more of a reader?

I must also say that the thing that I find hardest to believe is that his brother would just off and leave like that.

That's some pretty #ty brothering. So # in fact that it makes me wonder what they were all up to that they shouldn't have been up to that made them all dump a buddy to save their own tails.

a reply to: firesnake

If you tell yourself something often enough, over and over, you start to believe it. That's how NLP and self-hypnosis work at the most basic level. Every time that Walton tells the story it gets refreshed, becomes tangible again, creates a new level of memory. It's the same for all of us. We embellish and enhance out stories with each telling, the past gets a rosy glow, becomes idealised - or otherwise. Story-tellers have been paid for their stories, true, false and more often inbetween for as long as we have had stories. Story-tellers are highly valued in all human cultures.

So yes, something happened and that something made Mr Walton a valuable story which he has profited from. True, false or somewhere in between, we've all been entertained and I think got our money's worth.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

It's up to Walton to show without a doubt he was abducted. It's his claim and that's where the story begins. It's not up to me or anyone else to disprove him. So far, he has a story.

I haven't even studied that deeply into this case. Large eyes and aliens go in hand for decades back. It's already been pointed out it had been written about, drawn in comics, and created in movies. Invasion of the Saucer-Men was made in 1957 as shown in the movie poster below.


So it wasn't an original thought by Walton and he had a couple of years to research. I stress again, I believe large eyes is a strong trait and something that would have been mentioned in 1975.

It's up to Walton to show without a doubt he was abducted. It's his claim and that's where the story begins. It's not up to me or anyone else to disprove him. So far, he has a story.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

A story which many out there love and follow year after year , yes?

It's just a story without any physical evidences to back it up. At least Morehead & Al Berry have "Sierra Sounds" to try and backup Sasquatch claims.

I've traced a UK newspaper report that confirms Walton claimed the 'beings' had "large eyes" as early as 15th November 1975. Which was published within 5 days of him reappearing.

Note : I've tidied these up to make them easier to read



He also describes encountering human beings before he awakes near the highway.



The full clippings of the report are available here for anyone to view.

Daily Express - Travis Walton Report 15th Nov 1975 Part 1

Daily Express - Travis Walton Report 15th Nov 1975 Part 2

Of course, none of this proves he really encountered alien beings in a forest.

However, even if this story a hoax, then it' remains an intriguing one.

Someone else besides Travis would have to have been in on any hoax. At the very least one other person would have had to trigger a light show at the right moment to fool the rest of the logging crew. Then Travis would need food and shelter for five days while remaining out of sight. In that scenario there would also be the risk that one or more of the crew could have left the truck and followed Travis into the forest towards the source of the light. Totally unaware of what was going on.

If there was no light show then the whole crew would have to have been in on the hoax. So far nobody has confessed to anything some 5 decades later.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
a reply to: firesnake

If you tell yourself something often enough, over and over, you start to believe it. That's how NLP and self-hypnosis work at the most basic level. Every time that Walton tells the story it gets refreshed, becomes tangible again, creates a new level of memory. It's the same for all of us.

That's funny, I was going to write a post saying something along those lines in response to your earlier post in the thread when you suggested that his body language in the Rogan interview indicated he was telling a truth, but apparently I would have been telling you something you already knew. But I'm not sure that I'd call a lie that's repeated so many times you start believing it a truth. I was going to add that for the reason you mentioned, I didn't even really see the point in analyzing his body language to see if he was being truthful or not in retelling a story he had already told so many times over the decades. Maybe it might make sense to analyze his body language if you were one of the first people to get to him, and McCarthy who administered the first lie detector test was one of the first people outside his brother to get to Travis Walton. The lie detector test properly administered may be even more effective than body language assessment, though I'd be interested to know if lie detector examiners also look at body language during the test, or if they rely only on the charts.

The call to the national UFO reporting center by the friend of the family who wanted to believe Walton, and other sources like the journalist for the National Enquirer said Travis Walton's story was falling apart, he couldn't tell a consistent story as in the "oh what a tangled web we weave" sense, and lie detector expert McCarthy who administered the first lie detector test called Walton's answers "Gross Deception". Walton himself doesn't deny that he failed his first lie detector test miserably in the Geraldo video mirageman posted. After that failed lie detector test the examiner said was "the plainest case of lying he'd seen in 20 years", Travis Walton was sequestered and a hypnotist helped him work on his story by having him rehearse it over and over until he could try to tell a more consistent story which didn't fall apart. It's also possible the hypnosis sessions may have blurred the lines between what happened and what didn't, possibly helping Walton to not fail his subsequent lie detector test so badly.

Robert Sheaffer (RS) NOTES (photo: J. Allen Hynek, Robert Sheaffer, Travis Walton on Geraldo Rivera show, 1976)

James Harder was using hypnosis to lead Travis Walton into "remembering" a proper UFO abduction story. UFOlogists cite the apparent consistencies of these stories as proof that they are supposedly authentic! But here we glimpse the real reason behind the apparent similarities: Harder rehearsed Walton's story over and over again until the latter was ready to face the press and tell a convincing story.

The National Enquirer journalist on the scene was Coral Lorenzen, though she didn't sign what is apparently her article probably to avoid retribution since her article essentially says she wrote a 16 mage memo intended to kill the story because it was a hoax, but her employer turned that 16 page memo into a story they ran implying it wasn't a hoax. She said that as soon as the National Enquirer found out Walton failed the lie detector test miserably, they said to get him another lie detector test. Apparently the way this works is if you don't like the result you get, you get more tests until you get a result you like. Who they found was an inexperienced examiner whose boss was out of town, who found Walton was truthful. But when his boss got back in town and reviewed the lie detector charts, he did not agree with his inexperienced employee's assessment, a fact Travis Walton didn't mention on the Geraldo show when he said he "passed" the second exam. Robert Sheaffer tried to make the point on the Geraldo show, though he didn't get to explain it fully. One question the examiner of the second test judged truthful, we know was not truthful, because it directly contradicts what Walton said earlier:

Pfeiffer was relatively inexperienced, having been practicing only two years. This inexperience expressed itself when he judged Walton's "No" answer to the question "Before November 5, 1975, were you a UFO buff?" to be truthful. Walton's answer directly contradicted information provided by both his mother and brother Duane and by Walton himself during an earlier psychological examination.

originally posted by: Echo007
It's just a story without any physical evidences to back it up. At least Morehead & Al Berry have "Sierra Sounds" to try and backup Sasquatch claims.

If Travis Walton's story was true that he lost 10 pounds in the 5 days he was missing, when the doctors tested his urine, they should have found some acetone (which would appear as a result of not eating for five days), but they didn't find any acetone. So that is physical evidence which appears to contradict Walton's story.

originally posted by: mirageman
Someone else besides Travis would have to have been in on any hoax. At the very least one other person would have had to trigger a light show at the right moment to fool the rest of the logging crew.

Probably Travis, the driver of the truck, Mike Rogers, and some third person operating the lights as you say, though we can only speculate who that would be. I don't know where Duane Walton was at the time the lights were operated but Duane seemed surprisingly unconcerned about the welfare of his brother if he wasn't in on the hoax (Mike Rogers, too): Duane Walton might be a possibility for a third party. He was also the "guard dog/gatekeeper" that prevented people from talking to Travis after he re-appeared.

On November 8, Phoenix UFOlogist Fred Sylvanus interviewed both Rogers and Duane Walton. The tape of this conversation reveals several striking details. Not once during the entire sixty-five minute interview did Duane or Rogers express any concern over Walton's well-being.

If there was no light show then the whole crew would have to have been in on the hoax. So far nobody has confessed to anything some 5 decades later.

I don't think the crew other than Mike Rogers would be in on the hoax, but it seems odd to me the way Rogers drove off and abandoned Walton like that, unless he was in on the hoax in which case it makes perfect sense. He probably drove off before the rest of the crew had time to think about getting out of the truck.

originally posted by: firesnake
So something happened.

What happened was Walton re-appeared, told a story that fell apart and failed a lie detector test the examiner said was "the plainest case of lying he'd seen in 20 years", then a hypnotist worked with him to rehearse a story over and over again that wouldn't fall apart. Then he got an inexperienced examiner for another lie detector test and fooled him with an answer we know for sure is a lie (see above), and the rest is history.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Ah, ladies and gentlemen, I must say you did not disappoint. The drink of choice is usually weissbier or hefeweizen as the German purity standards have a higher threshold (probably non-GMO wheat). Other than that , any good bourbon.

I met TW in Cherry Hill, NJ once. I have seen him speak in person, as well. I asked him if he believed the humanoids were Pleiadian or Nordic, and he responded that he had been told that but "really has no idea." He did not elaborate further.
I found him highly approachable and convincing - UNTIL my friends on ATS started to make the case otherwise.

Let me say a few things before continuing, Pigsy, I did say that, and I regret it. Must have been my own experiences getting in the way with logic. To the others, also apologize, as well. I have said this before that without the debunkers, skeptics, naysayers, and probably, paid professional disinformation propagators, there is a balance between scientific rationality and wishful speculators and admonishment. However, Pigsy, I stand by what I said about those that have not been involved in some of these advanced programs and projects. You only know what you know or experience - how does one verify an ET claim of contact, abduction, or technical knowledge other than confession to lying or admittance by the US Government (which no one will believe anyway)? What is illogical about that?

I never said that you or anyone else should not participate. That wasn't my point and I admit when I make a mistake. I have biases because of what I know and understand. If you do as well other than you or your good position to make refutation on any of these topics, please let me know. I asked Mirageman if he had any background in our national security system or aerospace programs, or military intelligence. He has not given me an answer but I do like his logic - except when he and others refer to Philip Klass as "wrongly accused." This is likely an erroneous statement. There are allegations of several programs in place to control and divert the flow of information related to ETs in the 60's.* Combined with the number of posts related to the topic, it makes a gal like me wonder about motive to continually play Devil's Advocate? There are some capable and consistent shredders on the aliens forum.

*I'm not an intel professional, nor do I have knowledge of these programs but have been told related to some things work on. I am a scientist, specifically, a genetics biologist.

So, Travis Walton. I was skeptical years ago and changed my opinion after talking with him and seeing him speak. That Moment of Truth is disturbing. The video until it was linked where he took a polygraph test. I wonder if Joe Rogan missed it, as well. His response at the end was that a polygraph test is only 97 percent accurate. I guess thats not close enough to 100. BUT.... in his speeches, he clearly asserts that the results were faked or that he did, in fact, pass the polygraph for the show. Regarding the polygraphs taken by the others, I think they all passed. I'll post shermers take on it - I believe he is actually refuting the show.

michaelshermer.com...

My personal take is that his response to the revelation that he failed , might be deceptive. I actually find Bob Lazar more convincing on Joe Rogan. He doesn't look Rogan in the eye as Arb and others say, but I'm certainly no expert on deception. But enough, this is neither here nor there in being conclusive one way or the other and this debate will become as elusive as the others.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
This is a good post;

Can you give me your opinion on this? Arb, Ecto, others?

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Arbitrageur
"If Travis Walton's story was true that he lost 10 pounds in the 5 days he was missing, when the doctors tested his urine, they should have found some acetone (which would appear as a result of not eating for five days), but they didn't find any acetone. So that is physical evidence which appears to contradict Walton's story"

The propulsion system on most craft create a space=time dilation where it's relative to the local paradox. I can't remember if Walton stated his watch was not correct. Walton would not have starvation ketoacidosis if he was in relative time compared to the Earth. Obviously, Walton was not an alcoholic. "If he was undergoing alcoholic ketoacidosis occurs in patients with chronic alcohol abuse, liver disease, and acute alcohol ingestion. Starvation ketoacidosis occurs after the body is deprived of glucose as the primary source of energy for a prolonged time, and fatty acids replace glucose as the major metabolic fuel."

Oh, but again, not so many here believe in exotic propulsion systems anyway.

Now this is not saying he was abducted but I wouldn't put too much into the lack physical metabolic evidence based on urine concentrations of ketones.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout
Maybe so; but I believe its either true or false and not that its some fuzzy or unclear trauma. He seems to have a pretty good recollection by now either by factual assertion or deception.

a reply to: Blue Shift
LOL; Is your MBED going into high gear, Blue?

If I told you I'd have to ...

Nah, they'd probably kill me. Don't worry about it.

a reply to: play4keeps


Oh my. Young Linda in there waffling re Doty....

My problem with abductions -and Walton is not an exception -is that they should be realtively easy to prove -or at least prove something very unusual happened to the abductee-, yet, we don't have anything.
They make compelling stories, and some of the supposed abductees seem reliable and trustworthy, but that's all we have and that's not enough.

For a long time, when someone got lost in the woods and came back days later telling tales of fairies and demons there was little they could do to actually test or prove it. But we have a mature medical science now: if someone has been taken, experimented on, exposed to radiation or weightlessness we should be able to validate the story with scientific and verifiable tests.
There should be traces, scars, physical changes that can be checked against the medical history of the victim.
There are supposed to be implants, a lot of times there's been talk of implants being analyzed...and at the end nothing ever materializes.

I do believe there's something going on, that some kind of event or phenomenon happens to a lot of people, all over the world, that this can be very traumatic and that has common elements for most people who experiences it; but I doubt this is related to a physical, tangible, alien presence.