Travis Walton interviewed on Joe Rogan Experience

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Arbitrageur

$2500 , whats that a years rent if that ?

not very much is it

certainly not enough to justify calling a hoax and potentially have everyone you know alienate you or leave you out of the circle for being "that guy"

yes, thief’s and con artists care about what others think about them and have that judgement stop their actions... they never try and USE people. A lot worse has been done for a wholes years rent in a single pop, don’t be foolish.

The contract was Waltons to break?. As far as I was led to believe Travis was just an employee of Mike Rodgers who could have walked away from the job at any time. That would put to bed any theory that he and his brother (Who wasn't on the job) faked a UFO abduction to get out of any contract. And that would leave a problem with the other members of the team also, 5 of whom wouldn't have a had a contract to break either. The Contract was all on Mike Rodgers. Anyway, Rodgers has debunked the contract myth many times over the years. They were working late to catch up and they weren't that far behind schedule anyway.

Travis made a Fortune from his Story?. He may have made a few bucks here and there over the years but what about the rest of the crew. Did they just sit back and allow Travis to make fools of them the world over with this ridiculous story then watch him take all the glory and money without saying a damn word to anyone? How about going on National TV to debunk the claims?. They never did. Even though they were offered large amounts of money to do so. Now I wonder what the reason for that could be?.

Let's hear it.

a reply to: Droogie

S&F for digging through the trenches.

I'm quite familiar with the Walton case, it's like most supernatural or potential extraterrestrial origin, but few ATS members-if any-were alive to remember it.

I saw a shadow person twice but I have no evidence, sometimes the truth is in the eye of the beholder.

Travis believed what he experienced was real, or not. But still it's as Spock would say 'fascinating'.

Sometimes people lie, it’s hard for many to understand why sometimes, but it’s pretty easy to accept that people do. Just like your shadow man, Travis can only offer his word and that’s hardly enough insight to accurately describe his beliefs.

At the end, he only provides some interesting anecdotes for ufo lore.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Travis made a Fortune from his Story?. He may have made a few bucks here and there over the years but what about the rest of the crew. Did they just sit back and allow Travis to make fools of them the world over with this ridiculous story then watch him take all the glory and money without saying a damn word to anyone? How about going on National TV to debunk the claims?. They never did. Even though they were offered large amounts of money to do so. Now I wonder what the reason for that could be?.

Let's hear it.

Karl Pflock was a UFO researcher who thought Barney and Betty Hill were abducted. In the Travis Walton case, he was skeptical. You asked what about the rest of the crew... Pflock said "there would be no reason to bring those guys in on the hoax." Of course he's right about that.

UFOlogist Karl Pflock comments on Travis Walton Case:

Karl Pflock (1943-2006) was a big promoter of the Betty and Barney Hill abduction case. He had an interesting theory about UFOs. He believed that "real extraterrestrials" arrived on earth sometime around 1947 or shortly before, but departed sometime around 1970. So many of the "classic" sightings of the 1940s-60s were genuine ETs, but all of the later cases are bogus.

One time we were discussing the Walton case. I brought up the matter of the five guys in the back of the truck, who didn't know Walton and Mike Rogers that well, who all passed polygraph tests (more or less) and went along with the story. This is often cited as strong evidence supporting the abduction story. Pflock replied "there would be no reason to bring those guys in on the hoax." This struck me as brilliant, because Klass and other investigators always assumed that these five guys would have to be motivated in some way to go along with the hoax. But according to Pflock, the only ones in the truck who knew what was happening were Walton and Rogers (the driver). Much more believable!

Pflock also mentioned a tape-recorded telephone interview Klass made with one of the crew, describing what the crew saw, which sounds more like a light than a flying saucer:

Phil also ignores some very important testimony he obtained from witness Steve Pierce [one of the five workers] during a June 20th, 1978, tape-recorded telephone interview (a dub of which he kindly supplied me in early 1998), testimony which to my knowledge he's never revealed in any of his writings about the case:
Klass: What did you see?

Pierce: Uh, well, I thought it was something a deer hunter, you know, rigged up. You know, 'cause it was deer season, you know, so he could see. You know? And, uh, and, but I couldn't see the bottom or a top or sides, all's I could see was the front of it, you know. You couldn't tell if it had a bottom to it or, you know, or a back to it or anything...

Ground Saucer Watch findings were that all six witnesses said they never saw Walton boarding a UFO, they only saw a light and saw Travis Walton fall over and land on his shoulder, before Mike Rogers strangely drove off and abandoned him (which was not so strange if it was a hoax and Rogers was in on the hoax, but the other crew members were not).

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
Travis believed what he experienced was real, or not. But still it's as Spock would say 'fascinating'.

Travis Walton's urine analysis did not show acetone which isn't consistent with his claim to have lost 10 pounds during his missing five days:

More telling, though, were the results of the urine analysis performed on a sample from Walton. It showed no trace of drugs, but also no trace of acetone. After going without food for more than a couple of days, the body begins to break down its own fat. The waste product of this is acetone, and it is excreted in the urine. If Walton had been without food for several days, his urine should have shown some traces of acetone. Also, Walton later claimed to have lost ten pounds during his missing five days.

a reply to: play4keeps

So according to you, if you are not in the NSA or a contractor working on SAP's, then what? Your opinion is automatically moot?

The problem with the aforementioned on ATS is they are neither in the national security agencies or contractors working on SAPs

So thats just about everyone then. Oh except you of course.
God forbid someone uses critical thinking and points out some inaccuracies. Or posts a video of the man in question failing a lie detector
Go to 26 minutes 26 seconds on the video below

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Pierce was describing the light through the trees. The same light that they all said they saw through the trees. I suspect you know that and just omitted the rest of his statement by accident. He then goes on to try and describe what it was he was seeing when they stopped the truck and got a better look.

Let's hear the rest of the interview with Pierce and the rest of the crew. not just some small snippets of it.

"* I hasten to add that, while I think a hoax is possible, I have not made up my mind about the case". karl Pflock

Didn't he say he was near catatonic for weeks? So if he faked the whole thing, then he faked being sick and going to the hospital? Does he have any permanent medical conditions from his experience? Why would he fake that?

It's 2021, surely where he lives and how he is living can be looked up. I'm curious to know if he is living lavishly.

Thanks for this video... I was just 12 and fascinated as the story unfolded. Now all these years later, right now, this video solved the whole thing for me. Again, I appreciate it very much.



a reply to: SecretKnowledge

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The contract was Waltons to break?. As far as I was led to believe Travis was just an employee of Mike Rodgers who could have walked away from the job at any time. That would put to bed any theory that he and his brother (Who wasn't on the job) faked a UFO abduction to get out of any contract. And that would leave a problem with the other members of the team also, 5 of whom wouldn't have a had a contract to break either. The Contract was all on Mike Rodgers. Anyway, Rodgers has debunked the contract myth many times over the years. They were working late to catch up and they weren't that far behind schedule anyway.

Travis made a Fortune from his Story?. He may have made a few bucks here and there over the years but what about the rest of the crew. Did they just sit back and allow Travis to make fools of them the world over with this ridiculous story then watch him take all the glory and money without saying a damn word to anyone? How about going on National TV to debunk the claims?. They never did. Even though they were offered large amounts of money to do so. Now I wonder what the reason for that could be?.

Let's hear it.

Well said

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Pierce was describing the light through the trees. The same light that they all said they saw through the trees. I suspect you know that and just omitted the rest of his statement by accident. He then goes on to try and describe what it was he was seeing when they stopped the truck and got a better look.

Let's hear the rest of the interview with Pierce and the rest of the crew. not just some small snippets of it.

You apparently didn't read the source I linked, or if you read it, you don't understand it.

Still if you have a longer interview to post, please do, preferably an interview close in time to the actual event, and not a later interview where the stories have been embellished.

"* I hasten to add that, while I think a hoax is possible, I have not made up my mind about the case". karl Pflock

You asked what about the crew, and I gave you his explanation of what he thinks is possible. So if anything, that should give him more credibility in addressing your question "what about the crew" since it shows he's not a force-fit debunker who's already made up his mind. Did he answer your question "what about the crew?". That's why I posted his thoughts about how they need not be involved in any possible hoax, to answer that specific question you asked.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
His description moves along with the lore. Today they have large eyes, in his interview in 1975 nothing about their eyes.

I find this case fascinating because, whether a hoax or real, it's so darned EPIC. If fake, one has to admire the sheer gall and cheek to effectively 'torture' five colleagues under the watchful eye of local sheriffs during Walton's five-day absence. I say "five" colleagues because Mike Rogers is the likely suspect who could have set up such a hoax with Travis, whilst leaving the others completely unaware when he instantly drove them away before returning to the Walton-free scene of the crime five minutes later. In other words, a perfect plan. IF that is what had occurred.

Steve Pierce is one to watch in this case, not only because he hated Travis's guts with a vengeance, but he was also the centre of attention when Philip J. Klass was falsely accused of bribing him to say the case was a hoax. Sadly, Travis sticks to the bribe story in Rogan's show, whereas Klass had already proven (via a transcribed call to Pierce) that the so-called 'bribe' was a publicly known reward he'd offered the world in return for absolute evidence of alien visitation - in much the same way as James Randi's more infamous $1000,000 offer to paranormal fans. Ergo, there was no money for Pierce to claim.

My interest in this case does not stem from anything described by Walton during his actual alleged abduction, which is just standard stuff, although whether Travis has also 'updated' the explanation for the Nordic aliens since 1975, I'm not sure. Today he suggests the Nordics were artificial constructs to 'calm him down' after fearing the Standard Greys (who, IIRC, were first reported in a 1967 case, although, as you say, Travis does not describe them as such in 1975).

The cheque the gang received from the National Enquirer doesn't bother me. Let's face it, why would they look a gift horse in the mouth? Would you? Yeah, take it, boys! Were they AIMING for that reward? I doubt it, and there's no evidence of such a plan, so there's no point flogging THAT dead gift horse [sic].

What about the TV premiere of 'The UFO Incident' (the TV Movie dramatisation of Betty & Barney Hill's case, starring James Earl Jones) two weeks before that night? A far-too-convenient coincidence? It raises eyebrows, but why couldn't Rogers and Walton have been similarly inspired by the recent 1973 Pascagoula abduction case (which had also attracted massive attention) but avoiding suspicion by changing the appearance of Hickson & Parker's frankly bonkers-looking abductors? Wasn't it far too risky and obvious to use the 1975 movie if they were seeking to dodge a work contract? Did they even SEE it?

Finally, pushing aside the hoax claims, could Walton's case have been a MILAB (military abduction)? Indeed, there is much to support that theory in Betty & Barney Rubble's (sorry, Hills') case, especially the military-style uniforms described by Barney. In 1975, could a Black Op in the region (and there was a nearby army base) have accidentally injured Travis, and was he indeed hospitalised in a military facility for five days?

Eg, "Errr, Sarge, do I HAVE to put on the blond wig and blue jumpsuit?" - "Shut it, Private, play your part and keep the illusion!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Fun, innit?

So, as I said, the sheer SCOPE of this case, whatever the truth, is pretty impressive, and will continue to attract UFO fans in future.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
1975 Walton: They looked almost human
2000s Walton: And as soon as I saw this face, and knew it wasn’t human

Which ones are your quotes describing?

originally posted by: RMFX1
There's nothing believable at all to me about his story. His body language is highly suspect as well. I call BS on this guy.

His body language, as I mentioned in an earlier post, indicates to me that he is telling a truth. That may not be the truth in an objective sense.

If you watched his eyes when he is recounting his story they are almost consistently looking to the left and slightly downwards which indicates that he is pulling memories which are physically, involving a physiological or emotional response. Something like fear or shame. Or joy (though that seems somewhat unlikely in this scenario - it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom...)

If you contrast this to when he is asked a question about, let's say, what his brothers were doing while he was missing, his eyes go to the right. He's pulling memories/information from somewhere else, not from his direct experience.

However, some of the time he is just looking left I think, which would indicate that he is recalling auditory memories. Perhaps he was coerced to tell this version of events, or perhaps he was hypnotised to believe this version of events.

As I previously posted, what he said doesn't have to have happened for Mr Walton to genuinely believe that it did.

originally posted by: lucidclouds

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
1975 Walton: They looked almost human
2000s Walton: And as soon as I saw this face, and knew it wasn’t human

Which ones are your quotes describing?

Interview with Travis Walton by Barabra Frum Nov 24, 1975 several weeks after the incident:

BF: How'd they look?
TW: They looked almost human. They were very white - on their skin, and hairless. And in reddish-brown coveralls.

Source

Any number of sites you can find his quote about them being non-human now:

When I was first able to focus my eyes good enough, I was still on the table. And as soon as I saw this face, and knew it wasn’t human

Source

He also mentions in Rogans interview when asked what they looked like:

I guess it's a pretty typical description now a days. Very large eyes, hairless

Video

Waking from being knocked out and naturally focusing on the face, large eyes would have been mentioned in 1975 if true. Eyes are a natural indentifer and focus point for humans. Large eyes is unusual and a strong claim. He tries to fit his story into the popular lore by mentioning large eyes now. Trying to make it seem true to people.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

originally posted by: RMFX1
There's nothing believable at all to me about his story. His body language is highly suspect as well. I call BS on this guy.

His body language, as I mentioned in an earlier post, indicates to me that he is telling a truth. That may not be the truth in an objective sense.

If you watched his eyes when he is recounting his story they are almost consistently looking to the left and slightly downwards which indicates that he is pulling memories which are physically, involving a physiological or emotional response.

After initial concerns that he wasn't looking Joe in the eye often enough, it soon became clear that, yes, Walton was telling - as you put it - 'A' truth. It was actually quite touching at times, especially when describing the bizarre incident during which he saved his son's life, suddenly waking up to find himself walking towards his son's room where he was in severe danger of suffocation (IIRC). He could not recall how or why that HS occurred, and was clearly reluctant to recount it until nudged by Rogan, who was told the story in private beforehand. Interesting.

Aside from some childish sniping at his critics and still prolonging the false Klass allegations long after the old grump's death, Travis did reasonably well for a nervous, uncomplicated man, ie refreshingly straightforward with no pretentious airs and graces.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

Waking from being knocked out and naturally focusing on the face, large eyes would have been mentioned in 1975 if true. Eyes are a natural indentifer and focus point for humans. Large eyes is unusual and a strong claim. He tries to fit his story into the popular lore by mentioning large eyes now. Trying to make it seem true to people.

As I said above, the 'standard' Greys first premiered in UFO lore during 1967 (and swiftly forgotten), but I doubt Walton would have known that. In 1975 he at least mentioned a hairless aspect. And then there's this...



Did Travis actually watch 'The UFO Incident' (1975) a fortnight before? We don't know. But would he take the risk of describing something so similar so soon after transmission... unless of course he DID witness something akin to the Hills' aliens (1961), but cashed in on the typical Greys later. Spielberg's chief alien in 1977's 'Close Encounters' had a similar albeit far slimmer appearance, also benefiting from a bigger budget! Otherwise, I cannot think of a TV/Movie alien that may have encouraged Travis to change his description before Whitley Strieber's 'genre-defining' Greys hit the public arena in the late-80s.

(As most folks know, the Hills themselves were accused of nicking their aliens from an 'Outer Limits' episode.)

Travis himself joined ATS in September 2010, but was so aggressively treated by some posters (particularly The Shrike - who was THAT dude?), that it's hardly surprising he didn't hang around to answer any deeper questions other than about the 'Moment Of Truth' TV show (a rather dull and pointless GOTCHA! moment).

In my book FIRE IN THE SKY I take each and every charge the debunkers made and, according to observers, totally "demolish" them, by pointing readers to experts, independent sources and verifiable records...

... The skeptic position offered here is laughable.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, that told ATS! Calm down, Travis.

SO... when exactly DID Travis introduce the larger eyes? Does anybody know?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

That point being, he didn't mention anything about large eyes 19 days later when freshly interviewed. Large eyes would have captured his attention because that's where humans focus most of their energy when looking at another being. Plus, he describes the smaller details of being hairless and the skin tone which tells people he was observing them. How do you mention a relatively small detail like hairless and casually forget large eyes?
I haven't deeply researched the large eyes comment so I don't know when it first came out.

He also mentions hitting one during his Rogan interview. I may be wrong, but in every other interview in the beginning he mentions grabbing something and swinging at them but they back away. I don't remember him saying he hit one.

His eye movements aren't natural. He rarely focuses on Rogan and is always looking away. This isn't a situation where he's normally looking at someone having a conversation and glances to his left thinking and you can assume he was just recalling the truth. He's looking away more than 90% of the time. It's not natural. Look at other interviews he has done and you'll see how he interacts. It's not normal here.
I think because he's not sure about Rogan and the questions he will ask. Like with Lazar, he believes Rogan is right on the edge of belief enough to be considered somewhat on your side and safe, but can slip in questionable comments. But in the long run he is on your side.
Of course that's just my personal belief.

I spoke to The Shrike a couple of times and he had several usernames. He was harsh on Stanton Friedman particularly. I wasn't a fan of Friedman but didn't go off like he did.😄I'm guessing he was banned after all his comments.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

SO... when exactly DID Travis introduce the larger eyes? Does anybody know?

I believe it was on June 9th 1977 on the Geraldo Show [1:54 or so into this clip below]



He specifically says

..... i saw these three creatures standing over me.....they were a little under five feet tall, they had very large eyes, small nose, small mouth, small ears, they were very pale skinned. They had no hair, no eyelashes.. Were they human? No I wouldn't say they were...

Oh and in answer to your question you haven't even asked here yet. Spielberg's 'Close Encounters' opened in November of 1977 having been in production since mid-1976.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

A TV report was shown in late November of 1975 featuring Travis.



The audio from an interview (taken on 11th Nov 1975 - 6 days after he disappeared and the day after he reappeared ) is available too. Which I think puts paid to the claim he was "catatonic for weeks".



His descriptions of the aliens are 'kind of underdeveloped' compared to what he said a couple of years later on Geraldo.

Walton: They had kind of underdeveloped features and no hair of any kind, and they were dressed in kind of a brownish-orange.....They were slightly shorter than myself....

It was sort of a loose coverall. I didn't see any buttons or anything like that. But being in so much pain and everything, I didn't even think. I just lashed out and knocked them back. I could see that there were two on the right side and one on the left. I jumped into the corner.

Interviewer: Did you actually strike them? Did you actually touch them when you lashed out?

Walton: Yes, I.did. I kind of hit these two with the back of my arm, and they fell back real easily.

Interviewer: Did it feel like hitting a person?

Walton: Yes, they seemed light, like they weren't heavy. I couldn't stand up very well. I leaned against.... there was a bench across the back wall....I say the back wall....I mean, there was only one door....and I grabbed up a tube, a clear piece of glass or something, and tried to break off the end to get something sharp to defend myself with, but they didn't try to approach....

He also mentions a very human looking occupant

Walton ...I heard somebody come in, and I turned around, and it was a man, just like people. I mean he wasn't like the other creatures, whatever, at all. He looked just like you and I. Except he had a helmet on. Sort of a clear helmet.

Interviewer: And he had hair and everything?

Walton: Yes. I started babbling questions to him, and I ran over there, and he wouldn't answer me. He just took me by the arm and wanted me to go with him. And I thought maybe he can't hear me through the helmet....

Walton hasn't proved anything to support a spaceship visited Earth and aliens took him aboard. But as we see all the time in ufology, unless a negative can be proven, then the more credulous amongst us accept whatever fits their belief system without question..

a reply to: pigsy2400

Ah, that reminds me, these socks aren't mine, I need to go change, BRB.

You are sharp.