Exercise/caloric restriction is NOT the answer to permanent, healthy weight loss

originally posted by: Hecate666
As someone who has never been obese but always fluctuate around my ideal weight, up a little, down a little throughout my life I have to say that exercise and the restriction of calories does work a treat.

Snipped everything else, because it boils down to this quoted excerpt... and the fact that you are totally, completely wrong.

If you don't have a real weight problem - as you apparently don't - then, yes, doing what you describe can work, for you. But you do not, and can never know or understand what it is like to have a real weight problem once your metabolism gets out of whack.

I'll say it again... weight loss has nothings to do with calories in vs calories out. I know the argument you are making sounds logical on the surface, but it ignores science and the reality of the miracle of our bodies.

When you restrict calories, your basal metabolic rates slows down. Your basal metabolic rate is what burns 95% of the calories you burn in a day, even if you do intense exercise 4 hours per day - which is also why exercise doesn't work for real weight loss (but can appear to work for simple maintenance for someone who doesn't have a weight problem).

This isn't just my opinion, it is a fact. Dr Fung goes through all of the science that proves it.

But, believe and do as you will...

Agree about the exercise part, but disagree about caloric restriction. There are enormous benefits in fasting and there is a lot of research backing it up. Unfortunately, most people have some sort of stigma against fasting, as if it's something only for Monks and weirdos to be doing...

Even if you can't manage extended fasts, Intermittent fasting is super helpful as another poster already mentioned.

originally posted by: Tucket
Agree about the exercise part, but disagree about caloric restriction. There are enormous benefits in fasting and there is a lot of research backing it up.

You appear to be replying to my OP, but this first comment makes no sense, and also makes it clear that if you are, you didn't even read it.

First and foremost, your comment is confusing because 'caloric restriction' is not the same thing as fasting. Fasting is abstention from eating any food - at all - for a certain given period of time. Caloric restriction is simply reducing the number of calories one eats during any given period of time (usually 24 hours), over a longer period of time - weeks, months, or even an attempt at 'calorie counting' as a new type of 'lifestyle'. While similar concepts, they are, in reality, two very different things - and caloric restriction as a lifestyle is - well, the word 'miserable' comes to mind. It simply isn't workable for 99.999% of people.

Unfortunately, most people have some sort of stigma against fasting, as if it's something only for Monks and weirdos to be doing.

Even if you can't manage extended fasts, Intermittent fasting is super helpful as another poster already mentioned.

This is absolutely true, so again, either you're replying to someone else's comment on the OP, or you're commenting on my OP without actually having read it, since I make it very clear that IF (intermittent fasting) is 'the answer' referred to in the OP subject.

Also, it's important to point out that the word fasting means different things to some people. Some people will, for example, talk about a 3 day celery juice only diet as a celery juice 'fast', which is a misnomer. It isn't a true fast.

I agree that longer term fasting can be extremely beneficial when used intelligently, especially with respect to shorter fasts of 24, 48, or 72 hours. For example, it is the only tool that I've ever found that will allow you to break through a weight loss 'plateau'. Also, 48-72 hour fasts are a very powerful way to maximize the benefits of autophagy (this is the process where the body breaks down old/damaged cells and replaces them with brand new fully/properly functional cells).

But no one should engage in fasts longer than 72 hours unless they have a lot of knowledge about them, to the point they don't have any fear or uncertainty about it, or have a trusted medical practitioner with said knowledge to monitor them.

The longest fast I've done is a 33 day water only fast. It was exhilarating.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I do break the fasting pattern on days with exercise in the morning. I will have an avocado toast in the morning on those days, but I figure that an hour of step aerobics with weights and bands burns just under 600 calories, so I can afford to have a piece of whole grain with avocado on it. Plus, on exercise days the extra physical activity actually craters my appetite, so I end up with three small meals even with about 1,100 calories burned in exercise. On those days, I'm at a deficit.

You might be interested in the benefits of exercise/working out in a fasted state. It apparently provides much better benefits. There are lots of youtube videos about it, from Dr Fung and others. Just google on exercise or workout in a fasted state.

But it bears repeating - worrying about the amount of calories is something I have no interest in. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to do as long as you understand that it is not a major factor in weight loss. If it makes you feel better, great, but the reality is, everyone is unique, and there is no one size fits all when it comes to some mythical optimal number of calories.

Eat until you're full. Eat slowly and chew your food. Try to minimize 'variety' in each meal (lots of variety in a single meal contributes to over-eating because it delays satiety). That is all there is to it.

a reply to: tanstaafl
I've been asked many times by people I know about what I did to lose the weight and actually keep it off (they've seen me lose it before, but never for more than a few months, it has now been over a year since the vast majority of it came off), so I'm following up with a compilation of info I used to create an email template to answer their questions...

************************************************

First and foremost - I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle - keeping it simple. So, forget about dieting. You have to think about it in terms of beginning a new lifestyle, a new way of eating, for life, this is not a temporary thing.

Secondly - while I am a firm believer that what you eat is very important, it is extremely important (to your goal of achieving vital health) that you understand one simple fact: when it comes purely to weight loss, what you eat is not nearly as important as when you eat.

Third - in order to prove for myself the theory that regular exercise is not necessary to achieve healthy weight loss, unlike the times in the past when I worked out aggressively to achieve a relatively small amount of what was always a very temporary weight loss, I did not do any intentional exercise at all... nothing. I just went about my regular day, getting things done that needed to be done.

There are two parts to what I did to finally achieve my goal of permanent weight loss and progressively improving health: I changed what I ate, but most importantly, I changed when I was eating.

The science of 'when you eat' is encompassed in the concept called Intermittent Fasting (IF). There are tons of free videos online (see below for links to get you started), and lots of good books too (I tell you the one I bought that turned my life around below too), but there is no need to buy anything to do what I did. Everything you need to know is in this email.

I did also initially try to keep as much as possible to a Keto diet, but by far the most important change I made was incorporating IF in my daily routine. Also. You can lose weight and get healthier without changing what you are eating, but it is much much better, and easier, if you can at least make some changes, like, stop eating all processed/packaged foods and drinks - especially sugar. If you're thirsty, drink water. If you're hungry, eat some grass fed beef jerky that doesn't have sugar added to it - even better, learn how to make your own.

So, what makes the vast majority of people fat (like I was) is something called Insulin Resistance (IR), and people (like us) have created this problem due to our eating habits. IR develops when our insulin blood levels are kept elevated for extended periods of time.

What causes insulin levels to elevate? EATING. Eating anything - even a single cracker, or a bite of apple or steak, will cause your insulin levels to spike. Some foods cause it to remain elevated for much higher periods than others (research 'glycemic index' and the lesser known but more important 'glycemic load' factor - the higher this factor, the higher and longer it spikes your insulin), but anything with carbs always spikes your insulin levels. This is normal, but what causes the problem is when it happens too often, and the levels remain elevated without returning to normal.

People are not meant to graze (eat/snack all the time). The hardest part of this is killing the snack habit. I had to white-knuckle it for a week or two, but then it gets easier, and pretty soon it becomes effortless.

The concept of IF is really easy: for every day (24 hour period), you have an eating window - hours where you eat - and a fasting window - hours when you do not eat. And when I say you don't eat, I mean you don't eat anything - remember, even a single cracker will spike your blood sugar. It can help to drink water, but you also don't want to drink too much water either, so just use your head.

I have a lot of experience with fasting, so I dove right in to what is called OMAD (One-Meal-A-Day), but you can start with 2, or even 3 meals, whatever you're comfortable with. That is one key point - you absolutely must be comfortable with what you are doing. Stress is a killer, both physically, as well as motivationally.

In order to see any significant weight loss results, you need to have at least a 12 hour fasting window, but since 8 hours of this can be when sleeping, it really isn't as hard as it may sound, and you can adjust the other hours as you see fit. That said, 12 hours is just the absolute bare minimum, better is 15 hours, and even better is 18 hours. That still gives you a 6 hour eating window, and you can squeeze 2, or even 3 meals into that window.

Don't fall for the myth that 'breakfast is the most important meal of the day'. That is simply not true. If you are a breakfast person - meaning, if you feel better when you eat a breakfast - then by all means, have breakfast, just delay for an hour or two after you wake up. If not - then skip that meal altogether and start with 2 meals per day.

If you are an evening person, and feel better when eating a later dinner, then do it. If it makes you feel bloated and yucky or causes sleep issues, then start skipping it. We're each unique, and only you can make these determinations and decisions

The goal is to work towards a longer fasting window - so, you might start with 12 hours, then add an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening to make it 14 hours, then do it again for 16, then again for 18, and even again for 20. Since I only eat OMAD, mine is about 23 hours, and I feel great, so don't worry, you are not going to starve yourself, as long as you eat a lot of good healthy fats. For Keto, the ratio you want to shoot for is mostly high quality fats, moderate protein, and low on the carbs. It isn't rocket science, and some good news is, you don't need to worry about counting calories or anything like that.

Yes, another lie we've been told for many years is that saturated fats are unhealthy. We've been lied to about many things by the commercial food industry. There are many saturated fats that are some of the healthiest foods we can eat, and thankfully, they are also extremely tasty too! Use lard, butter, ghee or butter oil, or coconut oil for cooking (yum!), eat pastured eggs, BACON (yum!), real BUTTER (yum!), grass fed/finished beef, liver (beef, chicken, etc) and other organ meats (these are the true superfoods), sardines, anchovies, mackerel, salmon, etc, these are the best foods for us. I'll be re-incorporating some of my non animal favorites soon, like black rice, broccoli, cauliflower, etc, but doing so one at a time, to see if any are causing me any problems.

Last - for the last 6 months or so, I've been mostly doing the 'Carnivore' diet. Yes, that is when you only eat animal products (meats like steak, liver, eggs, fish (I love salmon), etc). I decided to experiment with this when I learned about how most plants have toxic chemicals they produce called 'lectins', that can have a very negative impact on our health - but that is a topic for another day.

***** to be continued...

a reply to: tanstaafl
***** continued...

Ok, so, I first learned about IF - which was the missing link I'd been looking for - in a book I bought called 'The Obesity Code' by:

Dr. Jason Fung: Main youtube channel
What is Fasting Part 1
What is Fasting Part 2

I highly recommend perusing any and all of his - or videos from the others below - on any subject you're specifically interested in.

I also really like:

Dr. Shawn Baker: Main Youtube channel

and:

Dr. Paul Saladino: Main Youtube channel
Can't recommend all of his videos highly enough

and:

Dr. Ken Berry: Main Youtube channel
Getting started with IF

Thomas DeLauer and Dr. Berg get an honorable mention, though the above are what I would focus on, at least in the beginning.

Thomas DeLauer: Main youtube channel
Saturated Fats are good for us
Keto over 50
Complete Women's Guide to Intermittent Fasting

and

Dr. Berg: Main youtube channel
Intermittent Fasting Basics for Beginners
Is Intermittent Fasting Really Different for Women?

And here is an interesting Australian Science documentary on saturated fats

Ok, that is it for everything regarding my 35 year weight loss journey...

Diet can be crucial, but it usually depends on genetics and over all activity. If anything, avoiding empty calories helps immensely. I've been told eating large meal in the morning helps with increasing ones metabolic rate, but if what you saying true, just staying active is key.

Consistency is needed when it comes to building muscle, and adding more muscle does increase the metabolism. Which is why bodybuilders or strongman can eat so much, an just burn it off like a reactor. Good way to build is to lift heavy enough and just work in fewer reps, with good form.

Jump rope good for cardio imo, if you can do it long enough. Chopping wood or hitting a tire with a sledgehammer probably the best workout.

Just go Keto.... simple

originally posted by: Akragon
Just go Keto.... simple

Nope. Not at all. Totally ignores the fundamental topic of the OP.

Try again.

a reply to: musicismagic

Agreed,and healthy legumes+brown rice. Lots of fruit and whole grains. Lived on fruit juice and mixed fruit in general back in the day while incarcerated.

Made it 4 months as well as a vegan, rough # and a lot of meditation.

You believe your personal experience is somehow defining health advice for others? That’s laughable and not congruent with living in “reality”... a bit of an ego there

a reply to: tanstaafl

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Akragon
Just go Keto.... simple

Nope. Not at all. Totally ignores the fundamental topic of the OP.

Try again.

I disagree. The OP is about the story of personal health and choice? Or would you describe it as a need for your validation? Perhaps even your wish to dictate to others? Their comment is very valid, you should apologize.

originally posted by: Neobucket
I disagree.

Rotflmao! Your agreement isn't required for my comment to be correct. It was/is. Your comment totally ignored the point of the OP.

The OP is about the story of personal health and choice?

No, it is an explanation of a fundamental principle of weight loss, pointing out that what we have been told is the way to lose weight is a lie.

Or would you describe it as a need for your validation? Perhaps even your wish to dictate to others? Their comment is very valid, you should apologize.

Not at all, their comment was wrong, and made it obvious that they didn't bother to read the OP.

Shouldn’t you leave it to the mods to remove thread drift? Originator of the Op or not, you’ve opened the floor to discussion, and there are opinions you might disagree with. It’s great you have your lens of experience to experience the world through, but you should keep the diet and medical advice private.

Your understanding of weight loss many would consider incorrect, just like most things in life, diet has a lot of misinformation. Your chosen reality only reflects an opinion. You might devalue a contribution but the need to police it shows something else at play.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Neobucket
I disagree.

Rotflmao! Your agreement isn't required for my comment to be correct. It was/is. Your comment totally ignored the point of the OP.

The OP is about the story of personal health and choice?

No, it is an explanation of a fundamental principle of weight loss, pointing out that what we have been told is the way to lose weight is a lie.

Or would you describe it as a need for your validation? Perhaps even your wish to dictate to others? Their comment is very valid, you should apologize.

Not at all, their comment was wrong, and made it obvious that they didn't bother to read the OP.

originally posted by: Neobucket
originally posted by: tanstaafl
Shouldn’t you leave it to the mods to remove thread drift?

I wasn't trying to 'remove thred drift', I was commenting on the irrelevancy of the reply to the OP.

Maybe you should stop trying to play mod yourself?

Originator of the Op or not, you’ve opened the floor to discussion,

Yes, I did, didn't I?

and there are opinions you might disagree with.

What is it they say about opinions?

Anyway, some opinions are simply wrong. There, I said it. -GASP!-

It’s great you have your lens of experience to experience the world through, but you should keep the diet and medical advice private.

Maybe you should stop trying to play mod?

Your understanding of weight loss many would consider incorrect,

Yes, and many people consider communism a good form of government. Doesn't make them right.

just like most things in life, diet has a lot of misinformation.

Yes. Yes it does. My goal is to dispel as much as possible of that misinformation.

Your chosen reality only reflects an opinion.

Sorry, you have it backwards. I choose my opinions based on as honest an assessment as possible of the facts as best as I can determine them based on my current level and state of knowledge at any given time.

It took me a very, very long time to get to the point where I very rarely change my opinions any more, because I've already separated out most of the chaff.

That said, I'm always prepared to admit when I'm wrong. As long as you can prove I'm wrong with facts and evidence. Leave your feelz out of it, please.

You might devalue a contribution

Contribution? Methinks you are being superflously ludicrous at best.

but the need to police it shows something else at play.

I'm not sure what is funnier - your seeing my response as 'policing', or the fact that you yourself are attempting to police my thread.

"Shall - we - play - a - game?"

Well I think we thoroughly understand what this thread is, to you, thanks for the clarification!

Nah, children games bore me

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Neobucket
originally posted by: tanstaafl
Shouldn’t you leave it to the mods to remove thread drift?

I wasn't trying to 'remove thred drift', I was commenting on the irrelevancy of the reply to the OP.

Maybe you should stop trying to play mod yourself?

Originator of the Op or not, you’ve opened the floor to discussion,

Yes, I did, didn't I?

and there are opinions you might disagree with.

What is it they say about opinions?

Anyway, some opinions are simply wrong. There, I said it. -GASP!-

It’s great you have your lens of experience to experience the world through, but you should keep the diet and medical advice private.

Maybe you should stop trying to play mod?

Your understanding of weight loss many would consider incorrect,

Yes, and many people consider communism a good form of government. Doesn't make them right.

just like most things in life, diet has a lot of misinformation.

Yes. Yes it does. My goal is to dispel as much as possible of that misinformation.

Your chosen reality only reflects an opinion.

Sorry, you have it backwards. I choose my opinions based on as honest an assessment as possible of the facts as best as I can determine them based on my current level and state of knowledge at any given time.

It took me a very, very long time to get to the point where I very rarely change my opinions any more, because I've already separated out most of the chaff.

That said, I'm always prepared to admit when I'm wrong. As long as you can prove I'm wrong with facts and evidence. Leave your feelz out of it, please.

You might devalue a contribution

Contribution? Methinks you are being superflously ludicrous at best.

but the need to police it shows something else at play.

I'm not sure what is funnier - your seeing my response as 'policing', or the fact that you yourself are attempting to police my thread.

"Shall - we - play - a - game?"

originally posted by: Neobucket
Well I think we thoroughly understand what this thread is, to you, thanks for the clarification!

And I think we thoroughly understand what you're all about too.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Neobucket
Well I think we thoroughly understand what this thread is, to you, thanks for the clarification!

And I think we thoroughly understand what you're all about too.

Reality!